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OLC determines that Trump's tax returns DO NOT have to be disclosed

The only legislation that could possibly come from a demand for Trump's returns in the manner they have been demanded would be ex post facto law and such laws are specifically unconstitutional.
It'll be interesting to see if Trump's defense team the OLC ever takes up this line of objection.
They seem to've skipped it for now.

If they do take it up, it'll be interesting to see if the SCotUs finds it plausible that no legislation could be made except ex post facto laws.

It seems a failure of imagination to say that these are the only sorts of laws which could be made.
But, I guess it'd be about the ScotUS's imaginations.
If they too were unable to imagine any other legislation could be informed by this than ex post facto laws, then they'd have to rule in Trump's favor.

Trump would have to make the argument first though.

Trump's legal team The OLC does not seem to have made that argument yet.
 
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Why was it important for every other President to do it? I guess we were just crazy all those years. And now we're not crazy anymore.

(That's called gas-lighting)

Prior to Trump the release of tax returns was a voluntary act.

Nixon started the trend.

Not all Presidents released tax returns. Gerald Ford did not release a tax return.

No Governmental force was used prior to Trump. Prior to Trump only peer pressure was used.

Are Presidential Candidates Legally Required To Release Their Tax Returns? | The Reeves Law Group

snippets

Candidates Are Not Legally Required to Release Tax Returns.

Are Presidential Candidates Legally Required to Reveal Any Financial Information?

Answer: Yes!

Presidential candidates are legally required to file a “Personal Financial Disclosure” with the Federal Election Commission.

Trump has filed a legally required 104-page “Personal Financial Disclosure” with the Federal Election Commission.

Roseann:)
 
Prior to Trump the release of tax returns was a voluntary act.

Nixon started the trend.

Okay, so every President since Nixon.

I guess we were all just cra-zey to care. All those years we were just dummies doing stuff for no reason. Generations of people doing something for no reason at all. Well, thank God someone came along to lie to America so we could all discover the liar is actually right!

We really should all thank Trump for lying to our faces. It's the only way we could see the Truth.
 
If presidents volunteered to release private information in the past and democrats fault Trump for withholding some info from the public then why don't we use this opportunity to ask again that Obama allow his cloistered birth certificate to be forensically examined by unbiased experts, and ask Obama for proof of his purported training at Harvard?

Have you seen trumps birth certificate?
 
They have burned down their opportunity with Mueller as that investigation is now over to include direct contact with Deutsche bank over the 2 billion loaned to Trump over the last two decades.
I though a Congressional request for Trumpco records from Deutsche Bank just won a court challenge not that long ago.
https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+records+deutsche+bank

Are you talking about something different?

If I were on the committee I would go back to his ex lawyers testimony (even though he is now incarcerated for lying) and get his claims of Trump overstating his real estate values for investments while undervaluing those same properties for tax purposes. Not saying what he is claiming is true but it would be enough to take the next step.
AfaIct, that is what is happening.

Hence the Congressional request for Trumpco records from a bank and an accounting firm.
Trumpco has opposed the requests, but has been losing in the courts so far.
https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+records+mazars


I would bring in an independent counsel (Which would be easy to do with a Liberal Federal Judge) and order the FBI to question these people Cohen claims (OUT OF THE PUBLIC SPOTLIGHT). I guarantee you they can produce a probable cause issue. Have that Independent counsel make a criminal recommendation to Congress for suspicion of tax fraud (Like that would be hard to do given the current environment) and subpoena the documents from the IRS.
If the IRS tries to stonewall under those conditions, it would be contempt of court.
Lets say for argument sake, this all works as planned and now you have 4 years of Trump returns. What the hell do you really have? Federal tax returns audited and prepared by an accounting firm who is liable for any fraud issue you might find coupled with you can't hold a president accountable for conflict on interest.
Honestly, either Nadler is very dumb or he is very smart. The other side of the coin is he knows he will never get the returns but going through the process makes Trump look like he is hiding behind his office and Democrats get the win for all of the Nixion comparisons for the next 17 months.
You tell me brother. Which one sounds more probable.
I find it probable that a long sitting Congresscritter may have greater familiarity with the lever at his disposal than one of us rando mb posters.

I am unable to competently judge the strategic value of Nadler's use of his various powers.
 
SCOTUS has ruled that Congress can seize the tax returns of any American it wishes to look into? I am not aware of that ruling.
I believe that.

It's more like a series of rulings regarding the limits of the Legislative Branch's investigatory powers than a single ruling.
And idk if any of the specifically address tax returns [ some of the rulings were prior to the existence of income tax ].
 
Thing is this is not new.
It is at least a century old.
So w/e damage there is was already done before you were born.
:shrug:

I knew that, and it baffles the mind the continued press down that road to inflict more damage.

Roseann:)
 
I knew that, and it baffles the mind the continued press down that road to inflict more damage.
Roseann:)

What is the damage exactly?

Just the two harms which *could* come from the release of Trump's taxes you mentioned before?

Is that it?

Or is there some graver danger?
 
I though a Congressional request for Trumpco records from Deutsche Bank just won a court challenge not that long ago.

Are you talking about something different?

No, you are right. They did get those records and determined that their is an outstanding balance of a few hundred million. Wasn't anything to see so they moved on. Mueller actually has a copy of those records.

Hence the Congressional request for Trumpco records from a bank and an accounting firm.
Trumpco has opposed the requests, but has been losing in the courts so far.

Low handing fruit. Much easier to get to that his tax returns. I think I even read somewhere that those records have been received.


I find it probable that a long sitting Congresscritter may have greater familiarity with the lever at his disposal than one of us rando mb posters.

lol That is most likely the smartest thing posted on the boards today, or at least in this thread.

I am unable to competently judge the strategic value of Nadler's use of his various powers.

Oh Dude, I have already typing up the memos to be passed on to Trump. I am including the greatest line from the 1962 Twilight Zone movie
(To Serve Man)
ITS A COOK BOOOOOOK
 
The harm of releasing Trump's taxes is twofold:
  • Trump supporters don't like it
  • it may make his opposition play dirty tricks

These potential harms are sufficient to justify curtailing Congress's Constitutional authorities?

No, The real harm is that the U.S. citizens 4th amendment rights will be weakened and may result in putting some non-conforming citizens in jeopardy of the same treatment as the non-conforming Duly Elected POTUS who refused to voluntarily provide his tax returns like his predecessors with the exception of Gerald Ford who also did not provide his tax returns.

Roseann:)
 
You're confused. It can't be whataboutism when it's completely and totally on topic and subject of the OP.

Whataboutism refers to my use of Trumps... Presidential predecessors who make promises as Candidates and after being in office have epiphanies and change their mind and do the opposite of what they promised while campaigning.

Roseann:)
 
Reread what was written by the poster.

No supposition was written in the statement made concerning the posters thinking that the taxes would smear Trump.

The statement only addresses the hope of those who want his tax returns... that being finding something/anything they can use "to try to smear him and spread gossip".

Roseann:)

Okay...

They want his tax returns so they can try to smear him and spread gossip over his tax returns.
They have zero legitimate reason to have access to them. The Supreme court won't allow this to happen!

If there is nothing in there to smear, how could opening up his tax returns, like he promised he would mind you, be used to smear him?
 
Manafort was also arrested for crimes which continued through 2017.
:shrug:

Really? Was Trump involved? If he was why wasn't he charged? Democrats could not prove the charges? I'm not surprised, considering how much effort they put into trying, but failing, to make the false charges of collusion stick.
 
Whataboutism refers to my use of Trumps... Presidential predecessors who make promises as Candidates and after being in office have epiphanies and change their mind and do the opposite of what they promised while campaigning.

Roseann:)

Here is the post to which you replied with a highly graphical yet idiotic claim of whataboutism:

Playing the victim card to avoid the fact that he lied to everyone to become elected.

No personal responsibility for Trump. Not even when he lies in your face.

Nothing in there about anything but tax returns, and nothing in there about anyone but Trump.
 
No, The real harm is that the U.S. citizens 4th amendment rights will be weakened and may result in putting some non-conforming citizens in jeopardy of the same treatment as the non-conforming Duly Elected POTUS who refused to voluntarily provide his tax returns like his predecessors with the exception of Gerald Ford who also did not provide his tax returns.
Roseann:)

Yeah, in theory a Congressional committee could form which would go around abusing their subpoena power to attack us average joes.
But, consider what degree of threat Congress's investigatory powers are when compared to the threats we already accept and live with.


I am more worried about a couple of corrupt cops and a single judge harming folks' 4th Amendment rights than a Congressional committee.
What is done in Congress is much, MUCH, MUCH more public than the average process for gaining a search warrant.

A couple of corrupt cops and a single judge
  • can act w/o having to notify anyone else,
  • their actions are only discoverable by petition after the fact,
  • can act at w/e hours, even the dead of night.

A Congressional committee
  • automatically has opposition representatives in it — something a regular warrant hearing does not.
  • their actions are publicly discussed ahead of time — something which is not a feature of a regular warrant hearing.
  • must get multiple levels of independent players to sign on — a couple of cops and judge could be kin.

The difference in the relative transparency of warrant hearings and subpoena by Congressional committee is something which makes the process less of a threat to Fourth Amendment rights than a local trio of corrupt cousin-****ers.

[ Yeah, I've lived in small towns. Why d'you ask? ]
 
Yes.
Well, through "at least 2016". [ I misremembered. My apologies ]
This information is in the very first paragraph of Manafort's indictment.

Not sure why so many people missed that.
But quite a number have made the claim that the crimes Manafort was charged with were all ages ago.

Who knows why they thought that?

Maybe they just didn't read the very first paragraph of the indictment.
Or, maybe they just mis-remembered — like I did about the date.
 
It cannot be for "whatever reason" it must be for e reason on which legislation could be had.

Democrat invent their own reasons and then validate them by majority dummass democrat vote. Just like the dummasses created the lying Trump/Russian collusion conspiracy theory and duped millions of Americans into believing the lie without questioning the lying barbarian savage monkeys who invented it.
 
It may not be a right so much as a power. (idk)
Congressional investigatory powers reside in both houses of Congress and are not dependent on party affiliation.
All Congresscritters — even the Republican ones — have the potential to exercise Congress's investigatory powers.

Just because democrats have been conducting unjust witch hunt investigations into Trump and his family and associates does not mean that the democrats are right in their barbarian pursuits.
 
Would the duly elected Congress be using their duly granted powers to remove the duly elected PotUS?

Yes, for high crimes and misdemeanors while in office via impeachment.

Since, the polls say the majority of Americans will not be happy about impeachment in The House of Congress.

Some of the Duly Elected Congress needed a purely political alternative place to spread some dirt around outside of The House.

That place I'll call the Public Square.

So we are experiencing a Public Square Impeachment by multiple members of Duly elected but not by ALL Duly Elected Members of Congress so they can spread their Democrat/Socialist on the verge of Communism "by any means necessary" dirty politics in The Public Square.

Using the guise of Congressional oversight of some but not ALL Duly Elected Members of Congress.

Public Square Impeachment totally eliminates the Senate voice by taking the "Impeachment" process out of The House of Congress and the follow up process of the Senate's participation in the impeachment process via The not quite an "Impeachment" of the Duly Elected POTUS in the Public Square.

The Granted Powers are Impeachment for crimes while in The POTUS is in Office.

Not by using 6 years of taxes of a business man when he was merely a private citizen.

A citizen, who the IRS has been doing their job of checking his taxes for years for any violations of tax law.

The IRS is capable of taking any action needed for any violations.

Does the some of The Duly Elected Congress think the IRS was incapable of finding any tax related violations when they audited Trumps tax forms for years?

Some of the Duly Elected Congress doesn't want to check Trump's tax returns to find any mistakes made by the IRS.

They want political fodder....

Like did Trump lie when he bragged about his Great Wealth Numbers. An accusation that was made in The Public Square.

Check out his charitable contributions. Compare the charitable $ amount compared to the $ amount he kept for himself.

It will be a fishing expedition looking for anything they can use to further personally harm him in the public arena to turn voters against him in 2020 and it has nothing to do with legitimate oversight.

It is simply political tactic to help their Candidate in 2020 and hurt Trump in 2020 election.

BTW when you asked me the question about the Trump "base"... what I said about the base was merely my thoughts about how the base really did not care about the tax return release controversy like his opposition does and had nothing to do with the question about any actual harm that may or may not be found in his tax returns.

Note: my post contains my opinion mixed with some facts.

Impeach | Definition of Impeach by Merriam-Webster

Legal Definition of impeach

1 : to charge with a crime or misconduct specifically : to charge (a public official) before a competent tribunal (as the U.S. Senate) with misconduct in office

Note: Impeachment is the first step in removing an officer from office. The president, vice president, and other federal officers (as judges) may be impeached by the House of Representatives. (Members of Congress themselves are not removed by being impeached and tried, but rather are expelled by a two-thirds majority vote in the member's house.) The House draws up articles of impeachment that itemize the charges and their factual bases. The articles of impeachment, once approved by a simple majority of the House members, are then submitted to the Senate, thereby impeaching the officer. The Senate then holds a trial, at the conclusion of which each member votes for or against conviction on each article of impeachment. Two-thirds of the Senate members present must vote in favor of conviction. Once convicted, the officer can be removed from office. Although the Constitution specifies that an officer is to be impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors, impeachment can also occur for misconduct that is not necessarily criminal (as violation of the Constitution). Because impeachment is the first step taken to remove an officer from office, impeach is often used in general contexts to refer to the removal itself, but that is not its specific legal meaning. An officer generally cannot be impeached for acts done prior to taking office.

Roseann:)
 
Okay, so every President since Nixon.

I guess we were all just cra-zey to care. All those years we were just dummies doing stuff for no reason. Generations of people doing something for no reason at all. Well, thank God someone came along to lie to America so we could all discover the liar is actually right!

We really should all thank Trump for lying to our faces. It's the only way we could see the Truth.

No. Gerald Ford did not provide his tax returns.

How many Presidential tax returns did you personally view over your years of voting?

He didn't lie to me because I don't use media or political smear sound bites or take words out of context.

Roseann:)
 
No. Gerald Ford did not provide his tax returns.

How many Presidential tax returns did you personally view over your years of voting?

He didn't lie to me because I don't use media or political smear sound bites or take words out of context.

Roseann:)

He said he would turn over his tax returns.

Trump lied
 
He didn't lie to me because I don't use media or political smear sound bites or take words out of context.

He said, if elected, he would release his tax returns. That's a lie.

Choose either but not both:

1. Victim card.
2. Personal responsibility.
 
What is the damage exactly?

Just the two harms which *could* come from the release of Trump's taxes you mentioned before?

Is that it?

Or is there some graver danger?

Do you forget what you post? I was responding to the damage you spoke of before I was born and had nothing to do with Trump.

Roseann:)
 
Okay...



If there is nothing in there to smear, how could opening up his tax returns, like he promised he would mind you, be used to smear him?

Let's see...

The kind of smear you just used... the smear that he must be hiding "something" sinister in his tax returns because you suspect that is the real reason he broke a promise.

Instead of accepting the reason he stated, which was that his tax Lawyer advised him not to release his tax returns as long as they were being audited.

Roseann:)
 
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