• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Time for War with Iran

Right, so the IAEA and your own government are in the business of 'opinion' making and have 'skin in the game'? You need to stay away from conspiracy websites. The rest of your rant isn't worth responding to.
The Shah was installed by your CIA who fomented the destruction of a democratically-elected government in 1953. Talk about laying blame if you want, but all of Iran's antipathy toward America stems from that time and British and American outrage that Iran would have the effrontery to nationalise their own oil. And America is supposed to be the bastion of democracy? Only if it's the variety acceptable to America and American 'interests'.

You neglect the British and French were as complicit as the US for installing the Pahlevi's in power. Fulfilling Major Abel Stratton's (one of T.E. Lawrence's disciples) WWII promises to the Pahlevi's in return for support of British forces gaining control of Iranian oil away from the Germans and their remaining Ottoman allies in the region. It was BP who stood to lose the most when Iran nationalized its oil industry, and BP took the losses on the nose. US oil companies were just customers with no money invested on the ground worth speaking of. Hudson Drilling sold Iranians equipment, just as they did to BP, the Russians, Venezuela, anyone else willing to pick up the tab and was later absorbed into Haliburton, a holding company fronting for British, French, Belgian and German investment banks working from the tax haven of the US.

We all know diplomats have skin in the game, and release data, true or not, to the public as fitting those needs. Not conspiracy, just lack of transparency so living room amateurs won't mouth off with stupid bungling BS interfering on the home front with what they don't understand. A British art form we learned from yours truly when the sun never set on a lost empire.

Only suckers believe the US is different from any other nation, seeking to meet it own interests in the world jockeying for power. Silly idealists who forget that money is the secret of America. :)
 
That's exactly what you are using. You have been corrected numerous times but evidently have no interest in the truth, just your version of it.

Be more creative and stop stealing lines. So untalented, so naive in your hate of your bastard discarded children who left you to eat the dust of a fallen empire.

Ask yourself why your German Queen welcomed the Trump family visit with so much hate for the Trumps in liberal England and its media. (Didn't see that comin', didja?
 
Be more creative and stop stealing lines. So untalented, so naive in your hate of your bastard discarded children who left you to eat the dust of a fallen empire.

Ask yourself why your German Queen welcomed the Trump family visit with so much hate for the Trumps in liberal England and its media. (Didn't see that comin', didja?

It's called diplomacy and politeness; something your president could do with a lesson in. We 'welcomed' Trump in the same ceremonial way as anyone else would be afforded during a state visit. Don't imagine for a second that he was extended anything remotely resembling affection. We have class, you see, and Trump doesn't fit that description but he loves a parade so, like the demanding little child that he is, we gave him one to keep him happy. And he still couldn't restrain himself from tweeting insults on his way here.
 
Last edited:
It’s time for a world without war.
 
Your silly sophomoric word games do nothing for your arguments.
Says the person who is claiming the IAEA and US State Department do not know as much as he does because he believes the truth is being told to him by someone he thinks is a liar.

You lost. Your argument is stupid. Iran was in compliance and Trump had no good faith basis for pulling out of the agreement. No amount of ranting from you will change that.
 
It's called diplomacy and politeness; something your president could do with a lesson in. We 'welcomed' Trump in the same ceremonial way as anyone else would be afforded during a state visit. Don't imagine for a second that he was extended anything remotely resembling affection. We have class, you see, and Trump doesn't fit that description but he loves a parade so, like the demanding little child that he is, we gave him one to keep him happy. And he still couldn't restrain himself from tweeting insults on his way here.

British diplomacy allowed Hitler to rise.
 
Says the person who is claiming the IAEA and US State Department do not know as much as he does because he believes the truth is being told to him by someone he thinks is a liar.

You lost. Your argument is stupid. Iran was in compliance and Trump had no good faith basis for pulling out of the agreement. No amount of ranting from you will change that.

:lamo :roll::spin::boohoo::monkey

Keep repeating yourself. Time will tell the real truth.
 
Trump doesn't need any war to get re-elected. War would only hurt him. It's not happening and if Bolton keeps pushing for it, he has to go.

We have claims, and counter claims, and not nearly sufficient intel or evidence to take any direct military action at this point.

So I'm not in favor of any direct attack military response, at least not at this point in time.

I don't get the impression from Trump that he's inclined to do so either, at least not now and not yet.
 
When do you think the Islamic militant extremists are going to give it up? So that we can have a world without war?

I don't think we need to go to war with 3rd world countries, there are many other options open to us. Now, when you use charged rhetoric like, "Islamic militant extremists" without defining what that is then it's harder to answer. "Islamic militant extremists" don't have a National Identity so it's hard to put and enforce sanctions on rogue militias, if they attack us we would have to put boots on the ground to some degree or another; BUT, that doesn't, necessarily, mean a full fledged war and probably shouldn't.
 
I don't think we need to go to war with 3rd world countries, there are many other options open to us. Now, when you use charged rhetoric like, "Islamic militant extremists" without defining what that is then it's harder to answer. "Islamic militant extremists" don't have a National Identity so it's hard to put and enforce sanctions on rogue militias, if they attack us we would have to put boots on the ground to some degree or another; BUT, that doesn't, necessarily, mean a full fledged war and probably shouldn't.

I would have thought that the term 'Islamic Militant extremists' would have already been well defined enough, given their history of actions since 9/11. Suffice it to say any Muslim which refuses to live in peace and takes up arms on the battlefield or commits terrorist acts would be a fair enough definition of terms.

While true, they don't have a recognized national identity, they do tend to congregate and hold territory and terrorize the local population, as we've also seen.

I'd much father combat the threat on foreign soil rather than on home soil, importing them in great numbers, as some would have us do.


[h=3]Minneapolis — FBI[/h]https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/minneapolis
Use our online form to report suspected terrorism or criminal activity. ... Visit FBIJobs.gov for information on current hiring and recruitment opportunities, ... History of the FBI's Minneapolis, Minnesota Field Office, which covers the states of ...

[h=3]Muslim Congresswoman's District Reported to Be 'Terrorist ...[/h]https://www1.cbn.com/.../muslim-congresswomans-district-reported-to-be-terrorist-rec...
Feb 18, 2019 - FBI statistics reveal that Minnesota's 5th Congressional District, represented by Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN), is the terrorism recruitment capital of the United ... Omar said al-Shabab's terrorattack on a Kenyan shopping mall that ...

[h=3]Ilhan Omar's Minnesota Congressional District Is The Terror ...[/h]https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/18/ilhan-omar-district-terror/
Feb 18, 2019 - FBI statistic reveal that Minnesota's 5 Congressional District, which is ... is the jurisdiction with the highest rate of terrorist recruitment in the United States. ... bombing of a Kenyan mall by Somalia-based terrorist organization, ...

[h=3]Study: Minnesota, Twin Cities show unusually active rate of terror ...[/h]www.startribune.com/study-minnesota-twin-cities...terror-recruitment/472820363/
Feb 5, 2018 - The tip triggered the nation's largest terror recruitment probe, netting ... The U.S. attorney's office in Minnesota has not charged anyone with ...

[h=3]The Somali-Minneapolis Terrorist Axis : NPR[/h]
https://www.npr.org/series/102787287/the-somali-minneapolis-terrorist-axis

Now the FBI frets that the young men, having trained with a terrorist group in Somalia, ... a handful of men with recruiting young Somali-Americans to fight for a terrorist ... into a rash of disappearances from the Somali community in Minnesota.
 
I would have thought that the term 'Islamic Militant extremists' would have already been well defined enough, given their history of actions since 9/11. Suffice it to say any Muslim which refuses to live in peace and takes up arms on the battlefield or commits terrorist acts would be a fair enough definition of terms.

While true, they don't have a recognized national identity, they do tend to congregate and hold territory and terrorize the local population, as we've also seen.

I'd much father combat the threat on foreign soil rather than on home soil, importing them in great numbers, as some would have us do.


[h=3]Minneapolis — FBI[/h]https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/minneapolis
Use our online form to report suspected terrorism or criminal activity. ... Visit FBIJobs.gov for information on current hiring and recruitment opportunities, ... History of the FBI's Minneapolis, Minnesota Field Office, which covers the states of ...

[h=3]Muslim Congresswoman's District Reported to Be 'Terrorist ...[/h]https://www1.cbn.com/.../muslim-congresswomans-district-reported-to-be-terrorist-rec...
Feb 18, 2019 - FBI statistics reveal that Minnesota's 5th Congressional District, represented by Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN), is the terrorism recruitment capital of the United ... Omar said al-Shabab's terrorattack on a Kenyan shopping mall that ...

[h=3]Ilhan Omar's Minnesota Congressional District Is The Terror ...[/h]https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/18/ilhan-omar-district-terror/
Feb 18, 2019 - FBI statistic reveal that Minnesota's 5 Congressional District, which is ... is the jurisdiction with the highest rate of terrorist recruitment in the United States. ... bombing of a Kenyan mall by Somalia-based terrorist organization, ...

[h=3]Study: Minnesota, Twin Cities show unusually active rate of terror ...[/h]www.startribune.com/study-minnesota-twin-cities...terror-recruitment/472820363/
Feb 5, 2018 - The tip triggered the nation's largest terror recruitment probe, netting ... The U.S. attorney's office in Minnesota has not charged anyone with ...

[h=3]The Somali-Minneapolis Terrorist Axis : NPR[/h]
https://www.npr.org/series/102787287/the-somali-minneapolis-terrorist-axis

Now the FBI frets that the young men, having trained with a terrorist group in Somalia, ... a handful of men with recruiting young Somali-Americans to fight for a terrorist ... into a rash of disappearances from the Somali community in Minnesota.

Most US terrorism is committed by crazy gun nuts shooting up schools, churches and businesses....Many of the gun nuts are angry white men...Not Muslims
 
I would have thought that the term 'Islamic Militant extremists' would have already been well defined enough, given their history of actions since 9/11. Suffice it to say any Muslim which refuses to live in peace and takes up arms on the battlefield or commits terrorist acts would be a fair enough definition of terms.

While true, they don't have a recognized national identity, they do tend to congregate and hold territory and terrorize the local population, as we've also seen.

I'd much father combat the threat on foreign soil rather than on home soil, importing them in great numbers, as some would have us do.


[h=3]Minneapolis — FBI[/h]https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/minneapolis
Use our online form to report suspected terrorism or criminal activity. ... Visit FBIJobs.gov for information on current hiring and recruitment opportunities, ... History of the FBI's Minneapolis, Minnesota Field Office, which covers the states of ...

[h=3]Muslim Congresswoman's District Reported to Be 'Terrorist ...[/h]https://www1.cbn.com/.../muslim-congresswomans-district-reported-to-be-terrorist-rec...
Feb 18, 2019 - FBI statistics reveal that Minnesota's 5th Congressional District, represented by Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN), is the terrorism recruitment capital of the United ... Omar said al-Shabab's terrorattack on a Kenyan shopping mall that ...

[h=3]Ilhan Omar's Minnesota Congressional District Is The Terror ...[/h]https://dailycaller.com/2019/02/18/ilhan-omar-district-terror/
Feb 18, 2019 - FBI statistic reveal that Minnesota's 5 Congressional District, which is ... is the jurisdiction with the highest rate of terrorist recruitment in the United States. ... bombing of a Kenyan mall by Somalia-based terrorist organization, ...

[h=3]Study: Minnesota, Twin Cities show unusually active rate of terror ...[/h]www.startribune.com/study-minnesota-twin-cities...terror-recruitment/472820363/
Feb 5, 2018 - The tip triggered the nation's largest terror recruitment probe, netting ... The U.S. attorney's office in Minnesota has not charged anyone with ...

[h=3]The Somali-Minneapolis Terrorist Axis : NPR[/h]
https://www.npr.org/series/102787287/the-somali-minneapolis-terrorist-axis

Now the FBI frets that the young men, having trained with a terrorist group in Somalia, ... a handful of men with recruiting young Somali-Americans to fight for a terrorist ... into a rash of disappearances from the Somali community in Minnesota.

War is defined as diplomacy by "other" means. We have the strongest military in the world by a factor of 10. Since we have no diplomatic relations with the people you're talking about, then OTHER means become necessary. BUT! Involving ourselves in wars that we cannot win is foolish. We should never have put a troop on the ground in Afghanistan, for instance. With ISIS/ISIL we should use our full might, short of nukes, to squash them and by full might I mean with zero/minimal loss of troops. IMHO.

I see you don't like a dually elected congresswoman anymore than I like this excuse of a president we have. There are legal means to deal with them.
 
War is defined as diplomacy by "other" means. We have the strongest military in the world by a factor of 10. Since we have no diplomatic relations with the people you're talking about, then OTHER means become necessary. BUT! Involving ourselves in wars that we cannot win is foolish. We should never have put a troop on the ground in Afghanistan, for instance. With ISIS/ISIL we should use our full might, short of nukes, to squash them and by full might I mean with zero/minimal loss of troops. IMHO.

I see you don't like a dually elected congresswoman anymore than I like this excuse of a president we have. There are legal means to deal with them.
Agreeing and disagreeing. Wasn't Afghanistan where the leaders and planners of 9/12 were? You go to where they are. The 9/11 attacks simply could not go unanswered.

Agreeing with you on entering an unwinnable war, but then the military leaders risk and approach evaluation and trade-off calculations begin.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 
I don't think we need to go to war with 3rd world countries, there are many other options open to us. Now, when you use charged rhetoric like, "Islamic militant extremists" without defining what that is then it's harder to answer. "Islamic militant extremists" don't have a National Identity so it's hard to put and enforce sanctions on rogue militias, if they attack us we would have to put boots on the ground to some degree or another; BUT, that doesn't, necessarily, mean a full fledged war and probably shouldn't.

Those options were open to the rest of the world since long before an old crippled man in wheel chair was tossed in the ocean to die. Nothing has changed. Ask the Hindi, the Buddhists, who have suffered far more than we in the west. Iran has underwritten and attacked through proxies, as have other muslim nations. Iran has been the worst. Iranians are arrested and deported from Indonesia, the most populated muslim nation in the world, because of the harm they have done there, as soon as they are detected. Muslims from no other nation are treated the same. China, which has no love of any western religions, has put its foot down on the neck of native muslims rather than accept their mayhem, and far more severely than those of any other religions.

Sanctions may topple the current aggressive muslim government in Iran, but they are just another form of diplomacy that will not change the reality that islam requires the submission of the world to the words of a long dead prophet who assumed the mantle of god. You should learn how and why, his motivations, and then recognize what the world faces with this militant religion. A religion with no axial moment discovering a forgiving god. You can declare your self as unbeliever of superstition, it will not change those who believe and their innate hate for you.

We are already in war not of our making. You are the target of the enemy, no matter how nice the people seem on a personal level when they drive you somewhere in a taxi, sell you a newspaper and chewing gum, or serve you halel barbecue street food. Kabobs are tasty, but the price is not about money.
 
Agreeing and disagreeing. Wasn't Afghanistan where the leaders and planners of 9/12 were? You go to where they are. The 9/11 attacks simply could not go unanswered.

Agreeing with you on entering an unwinnable war, but then the military leaders risk and approach evaluation and trade-off calculations begin.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


It's entirely possible to be of the opinion that our initial actions against Afghanistan and taking out Bin Laden were justified, but also not support the endless "War on Terror" and invasion of half a dozen other countries that didn't attack us.
 
:lamo :roll::spin::boohoo::monkey

Keep repeating yourself. Time will tell the real truth.
Wait, how will "time tell the real truth" when Trump has already pulled out of the deal, when Iran was clearly complying with the deal?

Why do you keep posting lies? Iran was complying with the deal, according to the United States. Your statement that Trump had a good reason to pull out was a lie. Are you going to admit you lied or not?
 
It's entirely possible to be of the opinion that our initial actions against Afghanistan and taking out Bin Laden were justified, but also not support the endless "War on Terror" and invasion of half a dozen other countries that didn't attack us.

True. It is entirely possible to hold that position, and it wouldn't necessarily be a so called 'wrong' position to hold either.

That being said, if the initial action is taken, but doesn't sufficiently defeat the terrorists, it is also true that they would reconstitute and spring up again, as we've seen that happen as well.
 
True. It is entirely possible to hold that position, and it wouldn't necessarily be a so called 'wrong' position to hold either.

That being said, if the initial action is taken, but doesn't sufficiently defeat the terrorists, it is also true that they would reconstitute and spring up again, as we've seen that happen as well.

You'll never defeat the terrorists, and the more you try, the more of them you'll create - especially when you kill the amount of civilians that we do in the process.
 
I will go ahead and go all the way DOWN to the level of the President and predict that current sitting President will try to attack Iran to get reelected.



Truth is there might be enough advisors around him that will refuse his orders or get the war averted but what we know so far...

He clearly views this as a strategy worth pursuing and that helps with reelection.
He clearly does not mind doing very questionable things to get reelected.
He hired war hawks like Bolton and Pompeo to lead him to war.
He had asked already about USA invading other countries (e.g. Venezuela in 2017):
Trump administration is starting to lay down the groundwork for pretext: today they accused Iran of various acts, including:
- recent attacks on oil tankers... no real evidence was provided
- 'on May 19th, a rocket landed near the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad' USA never claimed Iran was the cause
- 'on May 31st, a car bomb in Afghanistan wounded four U.S. service members, killed four Afghan civilians, and wounded bystanders' Actually Taliban took responsibility for that one, but who cares, right?



With 17 months left to election, Trump is starting to lay the groundwork for attacking Iran for his reelection. Seems a bit too soon to me but maybe they figure it will take 6 months to a year to prepare and to rally up the country.

Time for war with Iran? If anything a war with Iran is overdue, and now increasingly unwise unless it is launched prior to their manufacture of deployable nukes. Still, could be time for some war with Iran, if Trump has the balls (which, by the way, I don't believe he does).

Trumps a blowhard and loves military parades. But he also has the soul of an isolationist and loathes foreign entanglements. Over and over he has shown to have far more military bluster than bite, even less than that of Obama. And if necessary, he will rationalize his way out of it (e.g. as he does with Putin, Kim Il Sung, Venezuela, etc.). (And Warren, for all her loathsome domestic policies, is far more old fashioned and willing to bite back at the Iranians than Trump is).

However, it is "near" time to instigate at least a limited war. Iran is choosing to test allied and American commitments with a series of tanker attacks involving mines. However, the United States cannot under-take military actions until such time as a) allies request it and/or b) American flagged ships are attacked. If and when that happens, full scale air-strikes should be launched against the Iranian Navy and Revolutionary Guard basis in the Gulf (as did Reagan).

After demolishing all littoral gulf shore bases, if the Iranians refuse to cease their aggression, the US should then wipe out a percentage of all Iranian oil shipping and refineries - say in 1/3rd increments. Intermixed in this sequence should be a full blockade of Iran's access to the gulf.

While I am sure Iran would see "reason" to cease their aggression, if they didn't a escalating campaign of infrastructure destruction (dams, powerplants, transport networks, irrigation sytems, etc.) would enhance their learning.

So yep, time is near to "flush the bombers".
 
Last edited:
Most US terrorism is committed by crazy gun nuts shooting up schools, churches and businesses....Many of the gun nuts are angry white men...Not Muslims

Too bad the facts don't support your ridiculous claim. But even if they did, what's your answer to all the "evil white men" and "crazy gun nuts"? What are you prepared to do to deal with this red herring?
 
Back
Top Bottom