What is Democratic Socialism?

There are 2 ways to motivate people to improve their work and ethics. One is through incentives like bonuses, raises, health insurance, promotions. The other is through FEAR. Threaten penalties like the "Individual Mandate" in Obamacare. Threaten imprisonment if you don't do your share of the work. Socialism forces you to spread your wealth around to those who don't work and could work. Socialism requires you to lose your property rights and right to own your own business, unless you fork over all your earnings and let the Government dole out the money. How is that democratic? Just cause you vote for someone to strong arm you doesn't mean it's democratic. Venezuela, Cuba and many other countries that are true socialist countries prove that there is nothing democratic about socialism, nor moral.

Capitalism assists in creating within people a desire to seek incentives and raise our own level of lifestyle and live the way we want to live. That includes not raising your lifestyle too. It's called Freedom and Liberty. Bernie Sanders said Trump is a Corporate Socialist. What is a Corporate Socialist??? There is no such thing.

Cougarbear said:

There are 2 ways to motivate people to improve their work and ethics. One is through incentives like bonuses, raises, health insurance, promotions. The other is through FEAR. Threaten penalties like the "Individual Mandate" in Obamacare. Threaten imprisonment if you don't do your share of the work. Socialism forces you to spread your wealth around to those who don't work and could work. Socialism requires you to lose your property rights and right to own your own business, unless you fork over all your earnings and let the Government dole out the money. How is that democratic? Just cause you vote for someone to strong arm you doesn't mean it's democratic. Venezuela, Cuba and many other countries that are true socialist countries prove that there is nothing democratic about socialism, nor moral.

Capitalism assists in creating within people a desire to seek incentives and raise our own level of lifestyle and live the way we want to live. That includes not raising your lifestyle too. It's called Freedom and Liberty. Bernie Sanders said Trump is a Corporate Socialist. What is a Corporate Socialist??? There is no such thing.

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What a strawman, impressive. It's like you studied at they very feet of Marx.

Cougarbear said:

There are 2 ways to motivate people to improve their work and ethics. One is through incentives like bonuses, raises, health insurance, promotions. The other is through FEAR. Threaten penalties like the "Individual Mandate" in Obamacare. Threaten imprisonment if you don't do your share of the work. Socialism forces you to spread your wealth around to those who don't work and could work. Socialism requires you to lose your property rights and right to own your own business, unless you fork over all your earnings and let the Government dole out the money. How is that democratic? Just cause you vote for someone to strong arm you doesn't mean it's democratic. Venezuela, Cuba and many other countries that are true socialist countries prove that there is nothing democratic about socialism, nor moral.

Capitalism assists in creating within people a desire to seek incentives and raise our own level of lifestyle and live the way we want to live. That includes not raising your lifestyle too. It's called Freedom and Liberty. Bernie Sanders said Trump is a Corporate Socialist. What is a Corporate Socialist??? There is no such thing.

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Poor Comrade BS, he's trying so hard. At least he has more energy than Creepy Uncle Joe "Bite Me."

Anyway, yeah, you're right. And another thing, in a socialistic system only a few elites are allowed to be successful. Look at Mao, he was a billionaire, and his commie party elites were filthy rich. And then there's the Castro Bros there in Cuba, rich beyond belief while the people suffer under socialism. Even Comrade BS managed to become a multi millionaire as a senator, now how does that happen? Corruption, that's how.

You would probably find simple glance at something as prosaic as the Wikipedia entry enlightening. Give it a try ...

Cougarbear said:

There are 2 ways to motivate people to improve their work and ethics. One is through incentives like bonuses, raises, health insurance, promotions. The other is through FEAR. Threaten penalties like the "Individual Mandate" in Obamacare. Threaten imprisonment if you don't do your share of the work. Socialism forces you to spread your wealth around to those who don't work and could work. Socialism requires you to lose your property rights and right to own your own business, unless you fork over all your earnings and let the Government dole out the money. How is that democratic? Just cause you vote for someone to strong arm you doesn't mean it's democratic. Venezuela, Cuba and many other countries that are true socialist countries prove that there is nothing democratic about socialism, nor moral.

Capitalism assists in creating within people a desire to seek incentives and raise our own level of lifestyle and live the way we want to live. That includes not raising your lifestyle too. It's called Freedom and Liberty. Bernie Sanders said Trump is a Corporate Socialist. What is a Corporate Socialist??? There is no such thing.

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totalitarian anything isn't a good idea.


Total capitalism is not a good idea.

Total socialism is not a good idea.

A good idea is the right balance of both forces, in equlibrium.


Where does the pendulum rest?

It rest solely upon arrival at dead center.

Government and programs are necessary. But, thing is, not to over do it.

The debate isn't about Government, its about what Government should do?


Should it try and insure everyone has a chance for a better life?

What if most of the economy were dominated by a few, who owned most of the wealth and means of production and distribution? What if they now owned the media, and can now shape the narrative, and owned most of the government elected officials, and therefore they could rig it so no one but those in their small club could get ahead, in life.

That's where capitalism heads if it is not regulated.

Socialism, left unchecked, and you wind up with Venezuela, Cuba, etc.

The best way to avoid either extreme is to put the pendulum where it can rest.

OscarLevant said:

totalitarian anything isn't a good idea.


Total capitalism is not a good idea.

Total socialism is not a good idea.

A good idea is the right balance of both forces, in equlibrium.


Where does the pendulum rest?

It rest solely upon arrival at dead center.

Government and programs are necessary. But, thing is, not to over do it.

The debate isn't about Government, its about what Government should do?


Should it try and insure everyone has a chance for a better life?

What of most of the economy were dominated by a few, who owned most of the wealth, and means of production and distribution,
and they now owned media, can now shape the narrative, and owned most of the government elected officials, and therefore they could rig it so no one but those in their small club could get ahead, in life.

That's where capitalism heads if it is not regulated.

Socialism, left unchecked, and you wind up with Venezuela, Cuba, etc.

Teh best way to avoid either extreme is to put the pendulum where it can rest.

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Well said, you make a lot of success. While I suspect you and I would differ significantly on where the pendulum should come to rest, I still applaud what you've said here.

Cougarbear said:

There are 2 ways to motivate people to improve their work and ethics. One is through incentives like bonuses, raises, health insurance, promotions. The other is through FEAR. Threaten penalties like the "Individual Mandate" in Obamacare. Threaten imprisonment if you don't do your share of the work. Socialism forces you to spread your wealth around to those who don't work and could work. Socialism requires you to lose your property rights and right to own your own business, unless you fork over all your earnings and let the Government dole out the money. How is that democratic? Just cause you vote for someone to strong arm you doesn't mean it's democratic. Venezuela, Cuba and many other countries that are true socialist countries prove that there is nothing democratic about socialism, nor moral.

Capitalism assists in creating within people a desire to seek incentives and raise our own level of lifestyle and live the way we want to live. That includes not raising your lifestyle too. It's called Freedom and Liberty. Bernie Sanders said Trump is a Corporate Socialist. What is a Corporate Socialist??? There is no such thing.

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I don't understand why you create an entire thread about Democratic Socialism when it's obvious you don't understand anything about socialism much less Democratic socialism. Why don't you take some time and at least learn something about what you're talking about?

It's not black and white, socialism versus capitalism. That's simplistic thinking. Surely, you're not a simpleton who can't understand any level of complexity?

And the individual mandate is just a tax. And it's hardly a threat considering that it's cheaper to just pay the tax than to get health care. You're still free to be a moocher.

Now let me ask you: If a poor man has a heart attack, should the hospital treat him? Who should pay?

OscarLevant said:

totalitarian anything isn't a good idea.


Total capitalism is not a good idea.

Total socialism is not a good idea.

A good idea is the right balance of both forces, in equlibrium.


Where does the pendulum rest?

It rest solely upon arrival at dead center.

Government and programs are necessary. But, thing is, not to over do it.

The debate isn't about Government, its about what Government should do?


Should it try and insure everyone has a chance for a better life?

What if most of the economy were dominated by a few, who owned most of the wealth and means of production and distribution? What if they now owned the media, and can now shape the narrative, and owned most of the government elected officials, and therefore they could rig it so no one but those in their small club could get ahead, in life.

That's where capitalism heads if it is not regulated.

Socialism, left unchecked, and you wind up with Venezuela, Cuba, etc.

The best way to avoid either extreme is to put the pendulum where it can rest.

Click to expand...

Agree with everything here, except that I think the tension between these opposing, but equally legitimate ideals and demands, can never be a static one, like a pendulum at rest. It’s more of a dynamic tension, constantly needing to be attended to and revisited, depending on the circumstances and particular contingencies at hand.

Bullseye said:

Well said, you make a lot of success. While I suspect you and I would differ significantly on where the pendulum should come to rest, I still applaud what you've said here.

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I think a good general framework for it would be the Universal Declaration of Human Rights from 1948. It lists things like the right to food, clean water, shelter, a basic education, and access to healthcare, as basic human rights which should be protected- as a moral imperative. No human being should ever have to face the indignity and humiliation of ever having to face the lack of those things.

The free market can rule the day for everything else.

SonOfDaedalus said:

I don't understand why you create an entire thread about Democratic Socialism when...SNIPPED

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I understand why.
It was created as a fig leaf for the poutrage fueled strawman screed that forms the original post.

"What is Democratic Socialism"?

"Oh by the way, here's a big fat wall of text in which I make it clear that I've already decided what it is so don't bother telling me anything different, bla bla bla quack quack quack mumble mumble bunch of traitorous demonic commie pinko enemies of freedom etc."

Anyway, here is what Democratic Socialism isn't: Bernie Sanders.

Yes, I know he claims he's a democratic socialist but he's not. He's a New Deal liberal Democrat in the mold of FDR and he spent a good portion of his most recent rally speech invoking FDR.
At best his platform is social democracy, which is different from democratic socialism.
Social democracy is CAPITALISM.

Social democracy is a political, social and economic philosophy that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a liberal democratic polity and a capitalist mixed economy.

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Essentially The New Deal. And Sanders is promoting New Deal 2.0 and he urged his followers to help elect him so that he can push through the rest of FDR's unfinished work.

OscarLevant said:

totalitarian anything isn't a good idea.


Total capitalism is not a good idea.

Total socialism is not a good idea.

A good idea is the right balance of both forces, in equlibrium.


Where does the pendulum rest?

It rest solely upon arrival at dead center.

Government and programs are necessary. But, thing is, not to over do it.

The debate isn't about Government, its about what Government should do?


Should it try and insure everyone has a chance for a better life?

What if most of the economy were dominated by a few, who owned most of the wealth and means of production and distribution? What if they now owned the media, and can now shape the narrative, and owned most of the government elected officials, and therefore they could rig it so no one but those in their small club could get ahead, in life.

That's where capitalism heads if it is not regulated.

Socialism, left unchecked, and you wind up with Venezuela, Cuba, etc.

The best way to avoid either extreme is to put the pendulum where it can rest.

Click to expand...

To be honest, in the New Deal all we really did was add one or two very mild socialist tweaks to our capitalist system. We did not need to bring the pendulum to the center at all. Try looking at it this way...we have BEEN capitalists since before the American Revolution. The British colonists were capitalists. Thus we have something like 300 years of experience with capitalism and ZERO experience with socialism.

Best advice: KEEP the capitalist system but just add a couple of minor socialist tweaks the way one adds hot sauce to a burrito.
Just enough to make the capitalism a little more palatable and a little less predatory and cruel.
Just enough to extend a little bit more opportunity to the vulnerable ones.
That's all, no need to reinvent our economy, no need to restructure society, no need for any of that.
We can even keep on fighting like cats and dogs, we can continue being liberals and conservatives. We can continue being patriots.
We do not need to erect busts of Karl Marx or Lenin.

And that is pretty much all we did when FDR brought in the New Deal, and it worked.

Cougarbear said:

There are 2 ways to motivate people to improve their work and ethics. One is through incentives like bonuses, raises, health insurance, promotions. The other is through FEAR. Threaten penalties like the "Individual Mandate" in Obamacare. Threaten imprisonment if you don't do your share of the work. Socialism forces you to spread your wealth around to those who don't work and could work. Socialism requires you to lose your property rights and right to own your own business, unless you fork over all your earnings and let the Government dole out the money. How is that democratic? Just cause you vote for someone to strong arm you doesn't mean it's democratic. Venezuela, Cuba and many other countries that are true socialist countries prove that there is nothing democratic about socialism, nor moral.

Capitalism assists in creating within people a desire to seek incentives and raise our own level of lifestyle and live the way we want to live. That includes not raising your lifestyle too. It's called Freedom and Liberty. Bernie Sanders said Trump is a Corporate Socialist. What is a Corporate Socialist??? There is no such thing.

Click to expand...

Checkerboard Strangler said:

I understand why.
It was created as a fig leaf for the poutrage fueled strawman screed that forms the original post.

"What is Democratic Socialism"?

"Oh by the way, here's a big fat wall of text in which I make it clear that I've already decided what it is so don't bother telling me anything different, bla bla bla quack quack quack mumble mumble bunch of traitorous demonic commie pinko enemies of freedom etc."

Anyway, here is what Democratic Socialism isn't: Bernie Sanders.

Yes, I know he claims he's a democratic socialist but he's not. He's a New Deal liberal Democrat in the mold of FDR and he spent a good portion of his most recent rally speech invoking FDR.
At best his platform is social democracy, which is different from democratic socialism.
Social democracy is CAPITALISM.



Essentially The New Deal. And Sanders is promoting New Deal 2.0 and he urged his followers to help elect him so that he can push through the rest of FDR's unfinished work.

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Bernie is not a true socialist, but since he calls himself one, we need to look at what he means by it. Basically a new deal liberal, the Denmark, Norway , etc., models.


I think when Bernie called himself a socialist, he made a strategic blunder. The other blunder he did was not to join the Democratic Party, he seems to want to be a dem when it is politically expedient for him to do so. Thing is, he caucuses with dems most of the time, so his being an independent makes no sense to me.

Checkerboard Strangler said:

To be honest, in the New Deal all we really did was add one or two very mild socialist tweaks to our capitalist system. We did not need to bring the pendulum to the center at all. Try looking at it this way...we have BEEN capitalists since before the American Revolution. The British colonists were capitalists. Thus we have something like 300 years of experience with capitalism and ZERO experience with socialism.

Best advice: KEEP the capitalist system but just add a couple of minor socialist tweaks the way one adds hot sauce to a burrito.
Just enough to make the capitalism a little more palatable and a little less predatory and cruel.
Just enough to extend a little bit more opportunity to the vulnerable ones.
That's all, no need to reinvent our economy, no need to restructure society, no need for any of that.
We can even keep on fighting like cats and dogs, we can continue being liberals and conservatives. We can continue being patriots.
We do not need to erect busts of Karl Marx or Lenin.

And that is pretty much all we did when FDR brought in the New Deal, and it worked.

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This is very true. Even before FDR, it was some basic regulations to the free market like child labor laws and antitrust laws, back in the late 19th century in Europe, which kept Karl Marx’s prophecy of a workers’ communist revolt from taking place. It was these “socialist policies” which actually saved capitalism from communism. Capitalism needs a pressure valve. Karl Marx was not wrong on everything. He was right in that by itself, without any safety regulations, capitalism is not a stable or sustainable system. But the alternative does not have to be communism.

One common concern that is often raised with this is: where do you draw the line? Why wouldn’t some socialist policies be a slippery slope to communism? I think in response, the answer can be given by pointing to the Universal declaration of human rights from 1948. There need to be basic safety net regulations to protect peoples human rights, like the right to food, clean water, shelter, a basic education, and access to healthcare.

Capitalism can rule the day in everything beyond that. But a humane and moral society needs to protect the most basic human rights and dignity of its citizens. Anything else is too inhumane, and ultimately unstable and unsustainable.

OscarLevant said:

Bernie is not a true socialist, but since he calls himself one, we need to look at what he means by it. Basically a new deal liberal, the Denmark, Norway , etc., models.


I think when Bernie called himself a socialist, he made a strategic blunder. The other blunder he did was not to join the Democratic Party, he seems to want to be a dem when it is politically expedient for him to do so. Thing is, he caucuses with dems most of the time, so his being an independent makes no sense to me.

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Well he seems to be righting the ship if his last big event was any indication. And as far his insistence in somewhat inaccurate labels for what his platform consists of (Yeah, still New Deal Dem almost like FDR no matter what he calls it) it sounds like he thinks it's a psychological ploy to screw with the Republicans, ("They are unanimous in their hate for me, and I welcome their hatred.")
He's doing an awful lot of connect-the-dots with Mr. Roosevelt and that is not a bad thing.

So, Republicans can go and tune in to the fairy tales being told to them by their demagogues all they like about what Sanders stands for, but it is misinformation, and it doesn't matter if it's Russian or homegrown fresh from a Washington DC think tank.
As any student of history knows, and as your parents and grandparents know, NO ONE "TURNED SOCIALIST" during the thirteen and a half years Mr. Roosevelt was President. There were no Marxist or Bolshevik rallies or flags, no state collectives, no nationalizing...

They continued to be ordinary patriotic capitalist Americans... with "a new deal".

OscarLevant said:

totalitarian anything isn't a good idea.


Total capitalism is not a good idea.

Total socialism is not a good idea.

A good idea is the right balance of both forces, in equlibrium.


Where does the pendulum rest?

It rest solely upon arrival at dead center.

Government and programs are necessary. But, thing is, not to over do it.

The debate isn't about Government, its about what Government should do?


Should it try and insure everyone has a chance for a better life?

What if most of the economy were dominated by a few, who owned most of the wealth and means of production and distribution? What if they now owned the media, and can now shape the narrative, and owned most of the government elected officials, and therefore they could rig it so no one but those in their small club could get ahead, in life.

That's where capitalism heads if it is not regulated.

Socialism, left unchecked, and you wind up with Venezuela, Cuba, etc.

The best way to avoid either extreme is to put the pendulum where it can rest.

Click to expand...

Venezuela isn't socialist.

Aristaeus said:

Venezuela isn't socialist.

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Well, it's certainly a totalitarian corruption of it, but that's just an acknowledgment that totalitarian authoritarianism can corrupt anything, be it capitalist or socialist or anything else.

ataraxia said:

I think a good general framework for it would be the Universal Declaration of Human Rights from 1948. It lists things like the right to food, clean water, shelter, a basic education, and access to healthcare, as basic human rights which should be protected- as a moral imperative. No human being should ever have to face the indignity and humiliation of ever having to face the lack of those things.

The free market can rule the day for everything else.

Click to expand...

Free markets probably provide a higher percentage of those items than most. And, IMHO, there's a distinct between having a right to something and having government being obligated to provide it to you.

Cougarbear said:

There are 2 ways to motivate people to improve their work and ethics. One is through incentives like bonuses, raises, health insurance, promotions. The other is through FEAR. Threaten penalties like the "Individual Mandate" in Obamacare. Threaten imprisonment if you don't do your share of the work. Socialism forces you to spread your wealth around to those who don't work and could work. Socialism requires you to lose your property rights and right to own your own business, unless you fork over all your earnings and let the Government dole out the money. How is that democratic? Just cause you vote for someone to strong arm you doesn't mean it's democratic. Venezuela, Cuba and many other countries that are true socialist countries prove that there is nothing democratic about socialism, nor moral.

Capitalism assists in creating within people a desire to seek incentives and raise our own level of lifestyle and live the way we want to live. That includes not raising your lifestyle too. It's called Freedom and Liberty. Bernie Sanders said Trump is a Corporate Socialist. What is a Corporate Socialist??? There is no such thing.

Click to expand...

Democratic Socialism is Venezuelan style Socialism but with the Democrat party in charge so it looks more American.

Bullseye said:

Free markets probably provide a higher percentage of those items than most. And, IMHO, there's a distinct between having a right to something and having government being obligated to provide it to you.

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Yes I agree. But it’s not 100%, which means lots of people still get hurt, real bad, when they hit hard times. Often irreversibly.

And we are all vulnerable to hitting hard times. No matter how smart, hard-working, or good-looking we think we are. You cannot have a society which claims to be humane, moral, or just, without some kind of bare bottom safety nets and guardrails to protect against that.

ataraxia said:

Yes I agree. But it’s not 100%, which means lots of people still get hurt, real bad, when they hit hard times. Often irreversibly.

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Not sure what "lots" comprises.

ataraxia said:

And we are all vulnerable to hitting hard times. No matter how smart, hard-working, or good-looking we think we are. You cannot have a society which claims to be humane, moral, or just, without some kind of bare bottom safety nets and guardrails to protect against that.

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100% is not attainable. And I'd argue that safety nets and guardrails are available.

1. totalitarian anything isn't a good idea. Total capitalism is not a good idea. Total socialism is not a good idea. A good idea is the right balance of both forces, in equlibrium.

Cougarbear: Socialism is where the Government decides what's best, not capitalism. The Constitution was set up to limit Government, not the Private Sector. Any amount of socialism eventually takes over and regulates to death the Private Sector. Trump has reduced the regulations but still has a long ways to go.

2. Where does the pendulum rest? It rest solely upon arrival at dead center.

Cougarbear: See above. Socialism has no reason to be apart of our country. Bush tried to privatize or at least move Social Security towards that and away from Government mis-control. I have no problem with having the Government to put a small percentage of what I earn in to a retirement account and medical account. But, look what they have done. It never works! Privatize it and let capitalism grow the retirement money and the money to care for senior's healthcare with Medicare Insurance and Supplemental Private Plans. We are hundreds of trillions of dollars in unfunded debt. Get it out of Government control! Out of socialism control.

3. Government and programs are necessary. But, thing is, not to over do it. The debate isn't about Government, its about what Government should do? Should it try and insure everyone has a chance for a better life?

Cougarbear: No. Everyone doesn't want a better life. Not everyone wants the Government and Courts to try to insure their future. Risk should be a part of our present and future. And, those who want to take risks should also be able to reap the rewards too. Why is it that people want to limit the rewards of taking risks? Trump has had like 4 businesses go bankrupt. Yet, he didn't quit and look where he is now? Allow people to succeed and fail. It's how we learn when we fail.

We need laws to keep people safe from physical harm. But, it's gone way overboard. I went into a restaurant yesterday and the young man handed me my receipt with women fingernails all dolled up. I went into a Kentucky Fried Chicken place and there was a transvestite that was truly gross. When I go to a place to eat, I don't want to be grossed out while eating. I let both managers know I'm not coming back. That's capitalism when I the customer can control the business, not the Government. Call me LGBT hater if you want. When I go out to eat, I don't want to be grossed out. I will go to a place that treats the customers right. Let the marketplace decide.

4. What if most of the economy were dominated by a few, who owned most of the wealth and means of production and distribution? What if they now owned the media, and can now shape the narrative, and owned most of the government elected officials, and therefore they could rig it so no one but those in their small club could get ahead, in life.
That's where capitalism heads if it is not regulated.
Socialism, left unchecked, and you wind up with Venezuela, Cuba, etc.
The best way to avoid either extreme is to put the pendulum where it can rest.

Cougarbear: The media is controlled by the socialists right now. There are few Capitalism outlets right now. Fox News and the Washington Times is about all there is. There does have to be laws to check corruption. But, that is where the public should control the politicians. It's also where the public should pay more attention and not just take the liberal or conservative point of view without logically reasoning out the issues. And for sure, the Federal and State Governments should reject socialism as socialism is anti-Constitution.

Bullseye said:

Not sure what "lots" comprises.

100% is not attainable. And I'd argue that safety nets and guardrails are available.

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Well, for example, before the ACA, estimates were that about 45,000 Americans were DYING every single year due to lack of access to healthcare. That's not including those going blind, living with chronic pain, etc...

That's pretty crazy in a supposedly developed economy. No other country lives like that. It's barbaric. Not acceptable.

It's not acceptable to have orphans left on the street to rummage through garbage dumps for food because you don't think government should be stealing from you to have formal bare bottom safety nets to be able to take care of them. And no, charity has never been enough of a safety net for that kind of situation.

It's not acceptable to leave people hit by hurricanes, fires, and other natural disasters to dig out from it on their own because you think charity should be enough. It has never been enough.

That is not a humane society. It's not a free society. It's absolutely barbaric and heartless and the only freedom it offers is the freedom of the jungle, not a modern, civilized, developed economy.

SonOfDaedalus said:

I don't understand why you create an entire thread about Democratic Socialism when it's obvious you don't understand anything about socialism much less Democratic socialism. Why don't you take some time and at least learn something about what you're talking about?

It's not black and white, socialism versus capitalism. That's simplistic thinking. Surely, you're not a simpleton who can't understand any level of complexity?

And the individual mandate is just a tax. And it's hardly a threat considering that it's cheaper to just pay the tax than to get health care. You're still free to be a moocher.

Now let me ask you: If a poor man has a heart attack, should the hospital treat him? Who should pay?

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It's you that doesn't understand socialism. An individual mandate that you have to buy something the government is providing is not just a tax. Oh, you can get judges to vote that way but it doesn't make it a tax. It makes it a threat when you can fine or imprison someone for not buying your stupid health insurance. It also means the Government took over 1/6th of the economy as well. What else do you want it to take over? The problem is it wasn't working.

It's interesting that healthcare actually used to be affordable for most. People used to buy only insurance for major health issues. Major Medical Insurance. Until the Governments got involved. That alone drove the price for medical care up. Then, health insurance companies were regulated and up went the price more. Now, there is little to know competition for health insurers and we see prices at ridiculous highs. Socialism doesn't work. Get the government out of the Private Sector. The Government is good for a couple of things and that's what they should be busy doing: National Security and helping the poor and the needy when the private sector and churches can't.

DamnYankee said:

Poor Comrade BS, he's trying so hard. At least he has more energy than Creepy Uncle Joe "Bite Me."

Anyway, yeah, you're right. And another thing, in a socialistic system only a few elites are allowed to be successful. Look at Mao, he was a billionaire, and his commie party elites were filthy rich. And then there's the Castro Bros there in Cuba, rich beyond belief while the people suffer under socialism. Even Comrade BS managed to become a multi millionaire as a senator, now how does that happen? Corruption, that's how.

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The Cartel's will eventually move in to the U.S. and we will see more and more corruption. And the stupid never-Trumpers will also keep their status as well.