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Is conservatism selfishness?

SonOfDaedalus

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Is conservative ideology selfish? It seems to be based on self-reliance and the freedom of the individual. Collective cooperation is seen as something to be feared and avoided.

A lot of conservatives like Paul Ryan and Rand Paul (named after her) love Ayn Rand. But her philosophy is that "selfishness is a virtue." So, at its heart is conservatism a selfish ideology?



Though philosophers have never taken her seriously, Rand’s controversial “objectivist” ideas have been invoked by generations of conservatives, from Reaganites to the Tea Party, and now Donald Trump.

“Selfishness is a virtue.”

The US president-elect has only ever mentioned liking three works of fiction. The Fountainhead, Rand’s 1943 novel about an embattled architect, is one: “It relates to business (and) beauty (and) life and inner emotions. That book relates to … everything,” Trump told USA Today last April. Meanwhile, his pick for labor secretary, Andy Puzder, reportedly told his six children to read The Fountainhead. (Puzder is also the CEO of CKE Restaurants, a group ownedby Roarke Capital—named after the novel’s hero.) And rival Republican leader and house speaker Paul Ryan has credited Rand for inspiring him to go into public service.

US Republican leaders love Ayn Rand’s controversial philosophy—and are increasingly misinterpreting it

more Ayn Rand...

 
True conservatism is not selfish. Radical right libertarianism is pure greed and selfishness masquerading as patriotism at the individual liberty level.
 
I've never heard of Ayn Rand's philosophies being called "conservative". I think you mean "libertarian".
 
Is conservative ideology selfish? It seems to be based on self-reliance and the freedom of the individual. Collective cooperation is seen as something to be feared and avoided.

A lot of conservatives like Paul Ryan and Rand Paul (named after her) love Ayn Rand. But her philosophy is that "selfishness is a virtue." So, at its heart is conservatism a selfish ideology?

It can be. It definitely is for the "live and let die" strain of Ayn Randism.
 
Social liberalism and what's called economic conservatism are both selfishness.
 
I've never heard of Ayn Rand's philosophies being called "conservative". I think you mean "libertarian".

That's not even fair. More like "high school so-called libertarian that needs to read Crime and Punishment".


Ayn Rand is an extension of Nietzsche and Machiavelli before him. It's "uber mench", not political philosophy.
 
I've never heard of Ayn Rand's philosophies being called "conservative". I think you mean "libertarian".

A lot of Republicans are big fans of Ayn Rand. Most libertarians vote with conservatives.
 
Is conservative ideology selfish? It seems to be based on self-reliance and the freedom of the individual. Collective cooperation is seen as something to be feared and avoided.

A lot of conservatives like Paul Ryan and Rand Paul (named after her) love Ayn Rand. But her philosophy is that "selfishness is a virtue." So, at its heart is conservatism a selfish ideology?





US Republican leaders love Ayn Rand’s controversial philosophy—and are increasingly misinterpreting it

more Ayn Rand...



It's never been selfish, it's been about personal responsibility. YOU are the master of your future, your well being, don't demand others give so you can have through government action.
 
I've never heard of Ayn Rand's philosophies being called "conservative". I think you mean "libertarian".

It's leftist bait thread.
 
Is conservative ideology selfish? It seems to be based on self-reliance and the freedom of the individual. Collective cooperation is seen as something to be feared and avoided.

A lot of conservatives like Paul Ryan and Rand Paul (named after her) love Ayn Rand. But her philosophy is that "selfishness is a virtue." So, at its heart is conservatism a selfish ideology?





US Republican leaders love Ayn Rand’s controversial philosophy—and are increasingly misinterpreting it

more Ayn Rand...



Right libertarianism is certainly selfish. It is ersatz selfishness wearing the Halloween costume of pretend philosophy.

All it boils down to is "me me me me me".
 
Not this **** again...

Conservatism is not inherently about selfishness anymore than Liberalism is inherently about being self-sacrificing, but it can be used in vilification of the opposing ideology assuming we are really identifying what these ideologies actually stand for.

If anything, the difference between Conservatism and Liberalism in concept comes down to where the onus of responsibility lands. Individualism vs. collectivism then becomes the secondary conversation in terms of how government authority is applied to deal with means and ends, from society to economics.

In today's political spectrum though the only ideology left that is anything near what Ayn Rand was talking about is Libertarianism, and only in the strictest sense of minimal governance (i.e. minimal collectivism as a means to those ends) and maximum "freedom" (i.e. maximum individual responsibility as means to self determined ends.)

The problem we face is today's conservatives are no more about minimal governance and maximum freedoms than their liberal counterparts, we discussed time and time again that the only difference between today's front running ideologies is where the power of governance is applied to ensure an ends for whatever political support they have. Aristocracy and power. The right is just as likely today to trade away freedoms for "security" as the left today is likely to trade away freedoms for economic and/or social outcome, and the model of our governance increases no matter which is in power as a majority. The right is just as likely to apply the power of governance to ensure continued wealth collection as the left is likely to apply the power of governance to ensure continued system dependency.

"Self reliance and freedom of the individual" ends up bumper sticker thinking that neither Republicans or Democrats today (neither conservatives or liberals today) care much about, not really.

Ultimately minimal governance is unattainable now, too many things have been done to deal with collectivism needs from the pitfalls of our social and economic model. Which is why we moved to a more mixed economic model in the first place to throttle those perceived as selfish but really to deal with the failures of extreme excess causing too many economic faults. BTW, that is starting to happen again too meaning at some down the road point there will be another economic mess for us to argue about.

But that does not mean some massive rush to strict collectivism is wise either. That is not self-sacrificing in the ideological concept, and historically speaking more like mass suicide by placing that much power into the hands of the few to force our collectivism to their aristocratic ends. Aristocracy of governance and/or wealth is inherently damaging to any society no matter how obtained, which is why we tend to also be somewhere in the middle socially speaking just as much as we are economically speaking to avoid the pitfalls of either extreme.

It is still just conceptual though, as I mention above there is no conservative or liberal ideology today that cares about anything else but vilification of the opposing ideology.
 
That's not even fair. More like "high school so-called libertarian that needs to read Crime and Punishment".


Ayn Rand is an extension of Nietzsche and Machiavelli before him. It's "uber mench", not political philosophy.

Yep. Ayn Rand is not remotely what one would call philosophically sophisticated...or philosophically educated, for that matter.
 
It is still just conceptual though, as I mention above there is no conservative or liberal ideology today that cares about anything else but vilification of the opposing ideology.

Universal health care is still a topic that divides people into conservative and liberal distinctions.

Ultimately, the question boils down to how much you care about the health of poor people.

Selfishness and altruism are both aspects of human nature. It makes sense that they would manifest themselves in politics. Of course, neither pure selfishness or pure altruism are ideal. There is some balancing that is needed. Conservatism is a force towards selfishness and liberalism is a force towards altruism.
 
As others have stated, Ayn Rand is more an icon of Libertarianism than Conservatism... but not universally revered by libertarians either.

Individual conservatives can be selfish, but it is not the fundamental trait of the ideology. Ideological conservatism is about limited government and financial responsibility as ideals. Granted, in *practice* these ideals are not fully implemented.

Conservatism does hold individual liberty as one of the greatest goods, while acknowledging that we need a society and a government if we are to survive and prosper. The idea is to minimize the intrusiveness of the gov into the average citizen's life and property.

Again, I'm talking ideals and ideology... in practice there are many variables.

Conservatism tends to shy away from most sorts of collectivism, as Conservatism is diametrically opposed to Communism, and sees it as the end result of any sort of collectivist progressivism, and not without cause: Communism and full-on Socialism tend often to result in disaster.... witness the USSR and Venezuela for two examples.


Yes, conservatism tends to oppose much or most social spending or programs for the poor. In some cases perhaps this is a reaction of selfish individuals. Ideologically however conservatism opposes most of that because a) it is not Constitutionally authorized the fedgov to spend from the treasury for charity, and b) there's that concern, a legitimate concern, that too much of that leads to Socialism and all the ills that tends to bring.
 

It seems a number of folks who describe themselves conservatives are calling for radical changes.

Other examples are not limited to:

Historically, left-wing was the side of liberty (supporting democratic reforms) and right-wing the side of authoritarianism (supporting a king).
Left& - Wikipedia
[Iirc, our FF made their feelings about kings known.]
But now, the terms have changed meaning so that they are barely even connected with ideas about the proper source of governmental authority — consent of the governed vs a right-to-rule

"Socialism" no longer requires the govt to own or control anything but merely to regulate something.
 
Ultimately, the question boils down to how much you care about the health of poor people.
This is how the issue is often framed by talking politicos.

But it could also be framed as, "What will help our nation achieve its goals?"

May have the same answer as the other question.
It may not.
But that framing makes it a question of pragmatism rather than a question of our feelings about other people.
 
It's never been selfish, it's been about personal responsibility. YOU are the master of your future, your well being, don't demand others give so you can have through government action.

Build any road or bridges by yourself lately?
 
It's never been selfish, it's been about personal responsibility. YOU are the master of your future, your well being, don't demand others give so you can have through government action.

Unless you are gay, trans serving in the military, or a pregnant woman. Then the government just has to step in and save us all from the terrible liberal ideology of more than one gender. And women making their own healthcare decision.

So spoken to your old bowling buddies recently?

And of course we have to give farmers gov handouts. Otherwise they won't be able to blow all their money on a new truck every year and pretend to be poor.

And we gotta give money to the top 1 percent, so they can keep the economy going.

But yeah, that and making the government handout vouchers so your kid can learn creationism instead of evolution. Are the only times its ok for the government to give out stuff and choose winners and interfere in peoples lives


oh and if a black person might have a gun. Cant have that. Best shoot em to be safe.
 
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Is conservative ideology selfish? It seems to be based on self-reliance and the freedom of the individual. Collective cooperation is seen as something to be feared and avoided.

A lot of conservatives like Paul Ryan and Rand Paul (named after her) love Ayn Rand. But her philosophy is that "selfishness is a virtue." So, at its heart is conservatism a selfish ideology?





US Republican leaders love Ayn Rand’s controversial philosophy—and are increasingly misinterpreting it

more Ayn Rand...


The price of freedom is self reliance. The price of being provided for is lose of freedom.

All mass murders, all wars, all genocides have been motivated by the "government" setting out to steal other people's gold. The sole purpose of the Spanish in the Americans, for which they engaged in true total genocide (100% of every person in the Caribbean for example) and levels of enslavement, atrocities and mass murder on an industrial scale was singular - to steal their gold.

Socialism is about government stealing people's gold (money) to give it to others who did not earn it or work for it. It is theft, that simple, at least when it comes to social programs. The US government - as I write this - is stealing people's money - EVERYONE'S money by inflation if not by taxes - to give it to non-American invaders, bums, alcoholics, drug addicts, and families who generation to generation have lived solely upon the government stealing other people's money for them.

And as the number of people relying upon the government being their thieves has grown into tens of millions (over 100 million), their political voices how scream the government should steal from others for everything they want - free everything.

Declaring what is mine is mine is not greed. It simply means what is mine is mine. No, you can not steal my car, my wallet, or my furniture. No, you can not steal money out of my bank account or by credit card fraud. Running to the polls to demand the government steal what is mine (and thus my family's) is no less of theft by thieves in my opinion. Thus, I see social socialists as nothing but rotten, slimy little thieves.

Am I charitable? Yes I am. Probably more than just about anyone on this forum because I can afford to be. Charitable to people. Charitable to animals. But I am not charitable to bums, alcoholics, druggies, or lazy asses. I won't give a dime to someone who demands it.

The concept of "charity" to most Democrats and progressives is not that THEY are charitable. Rather, they want to steal other people's money - and then claim it is their charity. Never as before, the core of the Democratic Party now is which of them more promises to be thieves.
 
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