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Dem Leaning Voters: Support Impeachment?

Winston said:
Firstly, no most liberals were not saying even half those things. I follow left wing politics closely and the only thing I remember people being worried about was him starting a nuclear war with Kim Jong Un, when he was e-beefing with him. And the still open ended question of Russian business ties.

:lamo and how is Seth Rich, Uranium One, Illegals voting en masse, how's all that going?

In fact if we want to talk about hysterical lies told about a President being correlated to electoral success...

How does the right spreading birtherism, FEMA camps, Obama being Muslim, Obama being Marxist, how does that fit into your theory that the American people will punish the political party pushing fact free speculation?




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What I listed isn't speculation or made up. Those were CNN talking points being repeated and devoured by right wing media every single night. I watched every one of them. Just to drive the point home, what was the first notable thing that happened the day the Mueller report came out? CNN viewership tanked.

Obama isn't the president and he isn't the one being attacked. The worst thing to happen was Adam Schiff charging Trump as being a Russian agent and he had the evidence that would come out in the Mueller report. Or just the other day with Pelosi accusing Trump of a cover up. Don't even try and convince me you don't know this.

63% of voters don't want an Impeachment and people are pissed off they got suckered into these conspiracy theories. I will tell you this right now so you can save this post and bring it out later. If Pelosi moves for Impeachment knowing it will never get through the Senate, with all of the red state and swing state Democrats in the house right now, come election time, the Democrats political pull will rank somewhere around the spotted Owl society.
 
jghiretire said:
No one wanted Nixon out of office until they had the hearings and the information on what he actually did, got out to the general public. Or at least those that were paying attention.
Some on the GOP side are so far down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole, that nothing will help.
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Exactly. The American public has to see with their own eyes and hear witnesses testify to them what they testified to the grand jury by having the House hold Impeachment Inquiry Hearings. Most of the voting public won't read a damned book, but they will watch tv. If and when the majority of the American public (none of this 76% of democrats, 45% of independents stuff), but the strong majority of all the American public supports impeachment, then the GOP will have to reevaluate their "keep your head down and back Trump no matter what" theology.

Enough GOP senators getting serious push-back from their own constituents is the only thing that would cause them to rethink their Impeachment vote; once Pelosi has a read that it's possible the Senate might convict, I suspect the House will proceed from Impeachment Inquiry Hearings to full-blown Impeachment Hearings and go to vote. But if the majority of the American public isn't in favor of Impeachment, then it's a losing cause, and Pelosi isn't one to bet on a losing cause.
 
Condor060 said:
What I listed isn't speculation or made up. Those were CNN talking points being repeated and devoured by right wing media every single night. I watched every one of them. Just to drive the point home, what was the first notable thing that happened the day the Mueller report came out? CNN viewership tanked.

Obama isn't the president and he isn't the one being attacked. The worst thing to happen was Adam Schiff charging Trump as being a Russian agent and he had the evidence that would come out in the Mueller report. Or just the other day with Pelosi accusing Trump of a cover up. Don't even try and convince me you don't know this.

63% of voters don't want an Impeachment and people are pissed off they got suckered into these conspiracy theories. I will tell you this right now so you can save this post and bring it out later. If Pelosi moves for Impeachment knowing it will never get through the Senate, with all of the red state and swing state Democrats in the house right now, come election time, the Democrats political pull will rank somewhere around the spotted Owl society.
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CNN are biased and not towards the left wing. CNN is just pro-establishment. I don't watch them.

I'm not saying Poor Obama! Poor Obama! What the Right did to him was wrong, uncalled for, and unprecedented.. but, that's not why I brought him up.

You said the electorate will punish the political party who pushes fact free nonsense. But, the GOP pushed fact free nonsense about Obama for 8 straight years. And the Dems lost 1,000 seats and eventually the White House.

Why didn't they punish the GOP electorally for pushing fact free nonsense, why didn't they behave like you say they behave?


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jghiretire said:
No one wanted Nixon out of office until they had the hearings and the information on what he actually did, got out to the general public. Or at least those that were paying attention.
Some on the GOP side are so far down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole, that nothing will help.
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All the information on Nixon was made public prior to and before any impeachment hearings or impeachment process even begun. Nixon resigned before any of that could take place. The Watergate hearings on Nixon took place in a different era. An era prior to the hyper, ultra partisanship and polarization of today.

The Democrats also had huge majorities in congress which included a 58-42 advantage in the senate. To remove Nixon all the democrats needed as 9 GOP senators to join their ranks. It's different today, the GOP has the advantage in the senate 53-47. Meaning the Democrats will need at least 20 Republicans senators to join them. That is if every Democratic senator would vote for removal. I know of two Democrats in the senate that probably wouldn't. There might even be three.

Partisanship makes it seem it is the right thing to do. Impeachment of Bill Clinton, whenever I bring that up I get responses from Republicans on this site that it was the right thing to do. You're mirroring them. It takes more than just one party thinking it is the right thing to do. You need not only Democrats, but independents and some Republicans. About half of Republicans thought Nixon had to go, 3/4ths of independents agreed with that.

Today, you have 35% nationwide who think Trump should be impeached and removed. This includes 65% of Democrats, 9% of Republicans and 28% of independents. Question 14.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/o9fgzgielo/econTabReport.pdf

Those numbers are far removed from the Nixon era and in today's polarized and highly partisan atmosphere, I doubt no matter what evidence is presented, you won't get many more Republicans. Those who oppose impeachment and removal, 16% of Democrats, 84% of Republicans and most important, 48% of independents.

So far, strictly speaking, impeachment and removal is solely a one party affair. Which it has been now for 2 1/2 years.
 
jghiretire said:
If you haven't read the Mueller report - then you have no basis for saying it would be purely political purposes. So how Bill Clinton was impeached..........over a blow job. That wasn't political at all, was it..................:roll::roll::roll:
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My basis is the post I was responding to...

Basically, you can use impeachment as a wholesale condemnation of the Republican Party as an institution.
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Sounds like political purposes to me.

btw, Clinton wasn't impeached "over a blow job". He was impeached for perjury to a court when he was accused of rape.
 
jghiretire said:
No one wanted Nixon out of office until they had the hearings and the information on what he actually did, got out to the general public. Or at least those that were paying attention.
Some on the GOP side are so far down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole, that nothing will help.
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We've had years of information for public consumption. The Mueller report is out, Mueller spoke.
 
gdgyva said:
really...who is going to testify?

remember, the dog and pony show is not being allowed

there will be a LOT of no shows on the subpoenas

i guess they can read in the Mueller testimony...
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Defying a subpoena in an impeachment inquiry is obstruction in itself...
 
Perotista said:
All the information on Nixon was made public prior to and before any impeachment hearings or impeachment process even begun. Nixon resigned before any of that could take place. The Watergate hearings on Nixon took place in a different era. An era prior to the hyper, ultra partisanship and polarization of today.

The Democrats also had huge majorities in congress which included a 58-42 advantage in the senate. To remove Nixon all the democrats needed as 9 GOP senators to join their ranks. It's different today, the GOP has the advantage in the senate 53-47. Meaning the Democrats will need at least 20 Republicans senators to join them. That is if every Democratic senator would vote for removal. I know of two Democrats in the senate that probably wouldn't. There might even be three.

Partisanship makes it seem it is the right thing to do. Impeachment of Bill Clinton, whenever I bring that up I get responses from Republicans on this site that it was the right thing to do. You're mirroring them. It takes more than just one party thinking it is the right thing to do. You need not only Democrats, but independents and some Republicans. About half of Republicans thought Nixon had to go, 3/4ths of independents agreed with that.

Today, you have 35% nationwide who think Trump should be impeached and removed. This includes 65% of Democrats, 9% of Republicans and 28% of independents. Question 14.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/o9fgzgielo/econTabReport.pdf

Those numbers are far removed from the Nixon era and in today's polarized and highly partisan atmosphere, I doubt no matter what evidence is presented, you won't get many more Republicans. Those who oppose impeachment and removal, 16% of Democrats, 84% of Republicans and most important, 48% of independents.

So far, strictly speaking, impeachment and removal is solely a one party affair. Which it has been now for 2 1/2 years.
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Nonsense... The impeachment inquiry began on Feb 6, 1974

H.Res.803 - 93rd Congress (1973-1974): Resolution providing appropriate power to the Committee on the Judiciary to conduct an investigation of whether sufficient grounds exist to impeach Richard M. Nixon, President of the United States. | Congress.gov | Library of Congress

The famous Nixon tapes were not turned over until after the ruling in Nixon v. United States was decided on July 24, 1974...

United States v. Nixon - Wikipedia
 
Contrary to what Nancy Pelosi and the polls say, I'm a firm believer that the democrats should have moved forward with an impeachment inquiry a month ago when the Mueller report cited at least 10 instances of possible obstruction of justice. I think by waiting and delaying, democrats stand to lose credibility. Say whatever they want, the republican Congress knows very well that this is part of their job and by not doing anything they're negligent in their sworn duties of performing oversight of the powers of the president.

Trump and his family have all been blatantly committing white collar crimes. That's exactly how they got away with it, they did their crimes in front of our eyes. People in this country need to have some reassurance that Trump's undivided loyalties are with the people this country, not with Saudi Arabia, not with China or the Turks or Philippines. We don't want our president working for foreign interests. Congress needs a scrupulous accounting of all the money that has been spent at the Trump hotel, the Trump office towers, Trump condos in Florida, the golf clubs and so on, by foreign governments. According to the US Constitution he can't keep a penny of the money he made from all those LLC's. Presidents in the past were bringing things like a ceremonial dagger, a Persian rug and cuff-links to Congress saying 'can I accept this?' Trump has been accepting hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars and making a few token payments without ever coming to Congress. It's not acceptable and he needs to be accountable for that.

Regarding gifts to presidents: "Technically, all gifts given to the president from foreign nations are dedicated to the people of the United States. Each president can keep and use the presents until the next president is inaugurated. The National Archives picks up the gifts at noon, before the next president takes their new job at the White House."

An impeachment inquiry will force all these separate investigations into one and focus on what are the things that reach a Constitutional dimension. Things like treason, obstruction, bribery that are crimes against our character of government and against the Constitution itself. At the end of the day, whether the House passes impeachment and it just dies there, they will go down in history as doing their damned jobs and not acquiescing to the cowardly republican good-for-nothing doormats in Congress.
 
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HumblePi said:
Contrary to what Nancy Pelosi and the polls say, I'm a firm believer that the democrats should have moved forward with an impeachment inquiry a month ago when the Mueller report cited at least 10 instances of possible obstruction of justice. I think by waiting and delaying, democrats stand to lose credibility. Say whatever they want, the republican Congress knows very well that this is part of their job and by not doing anything they're negligent in their sworn duties of performing oversight of the powers of the president.

Trump and his family have all been blatantly committing white collar crimes. That's exactly how they got away with it, they did their crimes in front of our eyes. People in this country need to have some reassurance that Trump's undivided loyalties are with the people this country, not with Saudi Arabia, not with China or the Turks or Philippines. We don't want our president working for foreign interests. Congress needs a scrupulous accounting of all the money that has been spent at the Trump hotel, the Trump office towers, Trump condos in Florida, the golf clubs and so on, by foreign governments. According to the US Constitution he can't keep a penny of the money he made from all those LLC's. Presidents in the past were bringing things like a ceremonial dagger, a Persian rug and cuff-links to Congress saying 'can I accept this?' Trump has been accepting hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars and making a few token payments without ever coming to Congress. It's not acceptable and he needs to be accountable for that.

Regarding gifts to presidents: "Technically, all gifts given to the president from foreign nations are dedicated to the people of the United States. Each president can keep and use the presents until the next president is inaugurated. The National Archives picks up the gifts at noon, before the next president takes their new job at the White House."

An impeachment inquiry will force all these separate investigations into one and focus on what are the things that reach a Constitutional dimension. Things like treason, obstruction, bribery that are crimes against our character of government and against the Constitution itself. At the end of the day, whether the House passes impeachment and it just dies there, they will go down in history as doing their damned jobs and not acquiescing to the cowardly republican good-for-nothing doormats in Congress.
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Indeed. This is an incomplete run down of the impeachable offenses of twump, a mere scratch on the surface of his and his admin's MASSIVE corruption.

Jon Cryer on Twitter: "1/First of all, remember that impeachment is a political process, not a criminal one. Impeachable offenses are not necessarily criminal offenses but abuses of presidential power. Abuses that contradict his oath to uphold the constitution"
 
MovingPictures said:
The Lewinsky affair had the angle of being a sexual encounter conservative Christians didn't approve of. They followed the story from the beginning, so when Starr unearthed that Clinton lied to the grand jury, they began overwhelmingly demanding impeachment hearings.

Republicans knew that their base would turn on them if they failed to impeach Clinton, so they did it, even without broader public support.

If Democrats see impeachment support going into the mid 40's (ish), then they'll do it.
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Wasn't Starr appointed SC before Monica Lewinsky even happened?? Which would have made it purely political.
 
Deuce said:
Pelosi says there is no question Trump obstructed justice. Democrats need to do the right thing or I have no reason to vote for them.
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Yeah, this pretty much sums up my take too. I come from the area of the "Do Your Job" mentality, and though there may be some short term pain from doing so, I would really like them to do their jobs.
 
Lovebug said:
It implies that what Americans think is what counts. We can argue partisan bs all day long, we mustn't forget what is important to mainstream Americans. Unless you argue that partisan politics is more important.
I wonder, if we ask the average person on the street what is more important to them, impeaching potus or having a well paying job, what would they answer?
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Right. Because in no world could you possibly have both.
 
Winston said:
What % of Independents is needed to make impeachment viable? Because, I think if the Democrats actually make a strong case they can get enough Independent support and maybe even 20% of the Republican population.

If anyone regardless of lean watches only Fox News and conservative talk radio they are operating under the belief that the Mueller Report was a total exoneration..

That's untrue!


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Because this needs to repeating.
 
NiceGuyEddie said:
Most Americans accept Mueller's findings on no collusion and Barr's ruling on no obstruction.

They recognize that the dems remain committed to focusing on nothing but overturning the results of the 2016 election.

It appears quite possible that the always bitter, angry and snivelling left wing of the dem party will force Pulosi's hand and thereby achieve the impossible ... to paint Donald J Trump as the victim. :popcorn2:
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:lamo:lamo:lamo
 
Helix said:
Defeat him at the polls first. Then prosecute when he can't hide behind the Senate and the presidency.
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Exactly! The criminal GOP are dying for the Dems to impeach. They know that it will embolden both trump and the GOP to "play victim" and paint the Dems as petty whiners. According to the current, abysmal GOP, rules are made only for Democrats. Look at how McConnel now would have no problem seating a SCOTUS justice in an election year as he claimed was inappropriate when Obama tried to appoint a Justice in his final year.
 
Condor060 said:
Problem is Democrats have been crying wolf now for 3 years and nothing they proclaimed has come to pass. People don't care about how you feel about a President. They care about 3.2 GDP, historical highs in the market, historical lows in unemployment and 5 million new jobs. You are giving WAY to much credit to how voters feel about a single president. Remember, he was already put in office with the Democratic party, the Republican party, the media, and trump haters spewing the most hateful propaganda ever recorded 24/7 and now he has an actual administration history to run on.

And what do you think is going to happen when they make the FISA warrant info public? How do you expect to do the same things over and over expecting a different result. Polls don't support the Impeachment process and most don't re-read all the trial documents after a verdict is rendered because no amount of reading it is going to change the conclusion.[/QUOT

You think the FISA warrant was done in error because Fox says so.
Trump has also admitted that Russia helped him win. Another thing I'm sure Fox isn't saying.
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joko104 said:
Good plan. We all remember how intensely everyone hated Bill Clinton after he was impeached. He wouldn't even dare show his face in public after that.

Then again, some like me believe if it has been Bill Clinton rather than Hillary Clinton (if legal) Bill would likely be president now. :lamo

Yes, the Democrats should run on hating Donald Trump because he isn't a career politician like Democrats leading Committees in the House are. That's what most people care about - hating on Trump. That should be the 2020 issue. Democrat politicians hate Donald Trump.
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Ummmm.. just in case you're kidding, Clinton's approval ratings increased in the wake of his impeachment:

Poll: Clinton's approval rating up in wake of impeachment - December 20, 1998

(AllPolitics, December 20) -- In the wake of the House of Representatives' approval of two articles of impeachment, Bill Clinton's approval rating has jumped 10 points to 73 percent, the latest CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll shows.

That's not only an all-time high for Clinton, it also beats the highest approval rating President Ronald Reagan ever had.
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MovingPictures said:
The problem for Dems is that not everyone that opposes Trump agrees with impeachment. Usually, the approval polls show about 55-57% of Americans consistently oppose Trump on pretty much everything, but they're not yet there on impeachment.

If Democrats can get impeachment numbers closer to 50%, or 80-90% of the left supporting, they'll do it.

Republicans didn't want to impeach Clinton, until they saw their base overwhelmingly supported it.
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And even then impeachment worked against the GOP because the public sympathized with Clinton due to the unethical way Starr behaved.
 
lurchadams said:
Exactly! The criminal GOP are dying for the Dems to impeach. They know that it will embolden both trump and the GOP to "play victim" and paint the Dems as petty whiners. According to the current, abysmal GOP, rules are made only for Democrats. Look at how McConnel now would have no problem seating a SCOTUS justice in an election year as he claimed was inappropriate when Obama tried to appoint a Justice in his final year.
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McConnell is a hypocrite. i hope that he enjoys his legacy as a Trumpist sycophant.
 
Helix said:
i know that a Pence administration won't, which is what would happen if Tweety is successfully impeached (which also is almost certainly not going to happen.) however, a Democratic controlled DoJ might get rid of the idiotic "a president can't be indicted" policy.

win first.
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Absolutely! Not even a president should be above the law!
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
No, I don't support it and here's why:
The Republican Senate will NOT BUDGE no matter what.
Thus impeachment...isn't.

It would merely be a show trial and utterly symbolic, and worth absolutely nothing.
Therefore I cannot support an exercise in total futility just to watch a turtle take another giant dump on the law and the Constitution.

We are electing a House and Senate in 2020, not just a POTUS. Put the Dems in control of the House AND Senate and then we can talk about impeachment, if Trump wins. If he loses, we can make popcorn and watch him get taken into custody.
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Great to see you posting, CBS!!!!!

Absolutely true! I was watching "Face the Nation" and some GOP senator was actually giddy, daring the Dems to impeach trump. I can't remember the congressman's name, but he was from Virginia. In almost the same breath he proclaimed trump's innocence and then said that the "Dems either need to poop or get of the pot" with regard to impeaching trump. I think that's the "lovely" GOP's current agreed-upon talking point: "poop or get off the pot".

I'll be so glad when the GOP is out of power!
 
Mycroft said:
You've forgotten what prompted Clinton to lie under oath? Hint: It had nothing to do with a blowjob.

And you DO know Clinton wasn't impeached for a blowjob, right?
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Yes, I mean, a GOP politician would never lie about having an affair?

Access Denied

Access Denied

The guy from Tennessee actually got reelected after his scandal became public. Proving once again, the GOP is a lawless party.
 
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