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Dem Leaning Voters: Support Impeachment?

Well like most democrats i would like to see trump tarred and feathered and rode out of town on a rail.

But impeachment is a futile path. Sure it would pass in the house but the GOP would just kill in in the Senate

Pick your battles. This one is a loser.

Criminal prosecution after he leaves office is the better path. Put him in the big house with Big Bubba as a roomie.
 
Winston said:
Curious if the Dem base does want impeachment brought against the lawlessness of the President? You can nail him to the wall on obstruction and emoluments violations. I think they absolutely should impeach in the House, even knowing Trump will survive in the Senate.

Basically, you can use impeachment as a wholesale condemnation of the Republican Party as an institution. Democrats should make the argument, "Here's the evidence of high crimes and misdemeanors. We are going to do our job. Even if the Republicans in the Senate won't do theirs."

I think that's a powerful argument.
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"Basically, you can use impeachment as a wholesale condemnation of the Republican Party as an institution."

That would be like punishing your child for reckless driving by buying him a new car.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
Well, you could just NOT bother with polls, and do it anyway, as democrats in the House are allowed to do. Polls show Democrats should not try to impeach Trump.

And I'm allowed to call it a political gift. I think my reasoning behind this is clear. You don't REALLY need to ask questions or express scepticism with my sentiment about it....do you?

Go on then.
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IIRC, the majority didn't support impeaching Nixon until the House actually started the process.

Polls are subject to change. By creating increased awareness of Trump's actions, the proceedings might result in greater support for impeachment. In addition, I suspect that many of the people who say they prefer an investigation over impeachment would support impeachment once it began and they oppose impeachment because they believe it will help Trump get re-elected.

However, times are different now. We are a much more polarized nation than we were. We are also far more cynical and have far lower expectations for our president. In addition, there is little probability that Republicans will support impeachment no matter what the facts are.

At this time, there's no chance that impeachment will remove Trump from office. Since it may help him remain in office, I don't support impeachment now. However, if he is re-elected, I think the House should immediately begin impeachment proceedings.
 
Fletch said:
Careful what you wish for. Impeachment might also speak to a 'wholesale condemnation of the democrat party.' If they dont find a way to get the public behind them, the dems may wish they had spent their time in the majority a little more positively.
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A year or so of impeachment inquiry hearings would go a long way toward exposing the administration for what it is...
 
sangha said:
IIRC, the majority didn't support impeaching Nixon until the House actually started the process.

Polls are subject to change. By creating increased awareness of Trump's actions, the proceedings might result in greater support for impeachment. In addition, I suspect that many of the people who say they prefer an investigation over impeachment would support impeachment once it began and they oppose impeachment because they believe it will help Trump get re-elected.

However, times are different now. We are a much more polarized nation than we were. We are also far more cynical and have far lower expectations for our president. In addition, there is little probability that Republicans will support impeachment no matter what the facts are.

At this time, there's no chance that impeachment will remove Trump from office. Since it may help him remain in office, I don't support impeachment now. However, if he is re-elected, I think the House should immediately begin impeachment proceedings.
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True, the polls could change. It's a river of possibilities. But at this point, it's quite a big gamble for democrats. Sure it COULD pay off, but I COULD win a million dollars. That doesn't mean it will work out.
 
DarkWizard12 said:
True, the polls could change. It's a river of possibilities. But at this point, it's quite a big gamble for democrats. Sure it COULD pay off, but I COULD win a million dollars. That doesn't mean it will work out.
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I agree which is why I don't support impeachment AT THIS TIME. But if he's re-elected, then we don't have to worry that impeachment proceedings will help him get re-elected
 
BlueTex said:
A year or so of impeachment inquiry hearings would go a long way toward exposing the administration for what it is...
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... the only party trying to get things done.
 
Slavister said:
I recommend everyone that I quoted watches this video (starting minute 7:10 and esp. 17:00).





It will help avoid Trump reelection in 2020. For most people that are NOT involved in politics (and thus are more of "independent" voters), Impeachment proceedings would clarify why (or even just imply that) President is a crook. Otherwise, all they know is Mueller investigated for over 2 years and did not find enough for anything. If average Joe feels like Mueller found stuff sufficient for Impeachment, that would be a whole other ball game.



Mueller report has more than enough.



Because 50% of the country did not read the Mueller report and rely on the confusing lies on the right. Impeachment proceedings will clarify things for many people and their "weight" will imply the seriousness of Mueller findings.



Problem is "the base" may not come out to vote if Dems do NOT continue to expose Trump via public Impeachment proceedings and seemingly will not even try to impeach despite all the investigations.

In above video, Rachel makes a good point regarding this.



So we should avoid impeachment for fear of the violent right? Hey, by that logic, indeed, we should reelect Trump too!



That's because it's BEFORE the Impeachment proceedings. Impeachment proceedings will turn the votes around, just like they did with Nixon.

It's just like that person in the OP video that was surprised to learn from the single turned republican that Mueller report did not fully exonerate Trump.
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That's the wrong way to go. One doesn't begin impeachment trying to dig and find things. One finds all those things out prior to even beginning the impeachment process. Go back to Nixon. The Watergate Hearings were just that hearings, a bipartisan committee made up of both house and senate members. What they found in two years of investigation caused enough GOP senators to be convinced Nixon committed crimes worthy of impeachment. Nixon resigned before the house even began impeachment proceedings.

Bill Clinton's was just the opposite. The GOP used them to further dig for information to go along with Star's reports. Another difference is most Americans were convinced that Nixon needed to be removed, most Americans didn't want Bill removed and viewed the proceedings as a political vendetta. Without solid convincing proof prior to any impeachment proceedings, they are a waste of time. Democrats will be convinced, Republicans not convinced or convinced the democrats are trying a silent coup to remove a president. Independents what don't lean heavily towards on party or the other will be scratching their heads wondering what the heck.

Why, Democrats have been promising impeachment since the day after the election. They have stated they have proof of serious crimes that would demand removal. Yet have never shown them. I think more independents than not are now just ignoring both Trump and the Democrats. Getting peeved that his thing hadn't ended with Mueller's report as promised.

Or they're like, I want the impeachment hearings to begin today. Let's get this thing done and over with one way or the other. Whether Trump is removed or not is totally irrelevant. This circus has to end. After 2 1/2 years, enough already. Just go away.
 
Perotista said:
That's the wrong way to go. One doesn't begin impeachment trying to dig and find things. One finds all those things out prior to even beginning the impeachment process. Go back to Nixon. The Watergate Hearings were just that hearings, a bipartisan committee made up of both house and senate members. What they found in two years of investigation caused enough GOP senators to be convinced Nixon committed crimes worthy of impeachment. Nixon resigned before the house even began impeachment proceedings.

Bill Clinton's was just the opposite. The GOP used them to further dig for information to go along with Star's reports. Another difference is most Americans were convinced that Nixon needed to be removed, most Americans didn't want Bill removed and viewed the proceedings as a political vendetta. Without solid convincing proof prior to any impeachment proceedings, they are a waste of time. Democrats will be convinced, Republicans not convinced or convinced the democrats are trying a silent coup to remove a president. Independents what don't lean heavily towards on party or the other will be scratching their heads wondering what the heck.

Why, Democrats have been promising impeachment since the day after the election. They have stated they have proof of serious crimes that would demand removal. Yet have never shown them. I think more independents than not are now just ignoring both Trump and the Democrats. Getting peeved that his thing hadn't ended with Mueller's report as promised.

Or they're like, I want the impeachment hearings to begin today. Let's get this thing done and over with one way or the other. Whether Trump is removed or not is totally irrelevant. This circus has to end. After 2 1/2 years, enough already. Just go away.
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What you said about the Nixon impeachment is true but it leaves out some important details.

Just as Congress investigated Nixon before impeaching him, Congress has been investigating Trump. The Watergate investigation didn't pick up any steam until it received a report from the Special Prosecutor, Leon Jaworski, which mentioned tapes and other evidence. Sound familiar?

The committee investigating Nixon then filed suit to get the full report including the evidence, similar to the way the House is now trying to get the full Mueller report and evidence (including tapes)

It wasn't until the House received those tapes (Nixon fought the suit on the grounds that Grand Jury testimony was privileged and lost) and made their contents public that impeachment became inevitable, leading to Nixon's resignation.

None of this is to say that you're wrong about it being premature to start impeachment. It's just remarkable how history is repeating itself
 
NiceGuyEddie said:
"Basically, you can use impeachment as a wholesale condemnation of the Republican Party as an institution."

That would be like punishing your child for reckless driving by buying him a new car.
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Not even close.


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Checkerboard Strangler said:
No, I don't support it and here's why:
The Republican Senate will NOT BUDGE no matter what.
Thus impeachment...isn't.

It would merely be a show trial and utterly symbolic, and worth absolutely nothing.
Therefore I cannot support an exercise in total futility just to watch a turtle take another giant dump on the law and the Constitution.

We are electing a House and Senate in 2020, not just a POTUS. Put the Dems in control of the House AND Senate and then we can talk about impeachment, if Trump wins. If he loses, we can make popcorn and watch him get taken into custody.
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I think your aren't factoring in that the conservative population is grossly misinformed on what is in the Mueller report. And Congress will serve as much as an arm of justice as an arm of the press (functionally) xD


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rocket88 said:
I can't see a plus to it. His supporters will riot, in fact I wonder if they won't riot if he loses next year.
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Who cares what a minority supports. What if a minority supported Christian Sharia would the rest of the country have to roll over?


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sangha said:
What you said about the Nixon impeachment is true but it leaves out some important details.

Just as Congress investigated Nixon before impeaching him, Congress has been investigating Trump. The Watergate investigation didn't pick up any steam until it received a report from the Special Prosecutor, Leon Jaworski, which mentioned tapes and other evidence. Sound familiar?

The committee investigating Nixon then filed suit to get the full report including the evidence, similar to the way the House is now trying to get the full Mueller report and evidence (including tapes)

It wasn't until the House received those tapes (Nixon fought the suit on the grounds that Grand Jury testimony was privileged and lost) and made their contents public that impeachment became inevitable, leading to Nixon's resignation.

None of this is to say that you're wrong about it being premature to start impeachment. It's just remarkable how history is repeating itself
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I agree. I didn't want to write a book about Nixon. Now you pointed out a good, point. The tapes were the smoking gun. Discovered prior to any impeachment process hearings. Right now the democrats are throwing around the old things that have been out there for 2 1/2 years. A smoking gun hasn't arrived as of yet, something to convince a majority of Americans of all political stripes that removal is warranted.

I may be wrong, but I do think those who aren't hard core partisan political junkies are beginning to tire of all of this. It's been a constant bombardment since Trump was elected, how many has just put all of this on ignore? An oh well, another democratic blast against Trump along with the threat of impeachment and a Trump tweet calling the democrats names among other things. Perhaps it's becoming, ho hum, another political day in Washington.

I wonder if a smoking gun was found after 2 1/2 years if enough people would pay attention to it or have become so adjusted to all these shenanigans and the constant barrage that few will even pay attention to it. Just another day of accusations and counter accusations. Now on to more important things, did the Braves win last night?
 
Perotista said:
It would be if it were more than just Democrats and anti-Trumpers wanting it. I should add you do have a bunch of Democratic leaning independents joining the Democrats. But not Republican leaning independents or what I call true or pure independents with no leans. Look at question 14. Democrats, 65% want impeachment and removal, 16% do not. Republicans, 9% do want impeachment and removal, 84% do not. Okay, Democrats want impeachment, Republicans do not, nothing new there.

So what about independents? The less to non-partisans, the non-affiliated although a lot do lean toward one party or the other. What do they think? This group also makes up the largest voting block, 44% of all Americans now identify themselves as independents. 28% favor impeachment and removal, 47% do not, 25% are not sure or just don't care.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/o9fgzgielo/econTabReport.pdf

Nationwide, that comes out to 35% in favor of impeachment and removal, 47% oppose with 18% not sure. Of course the Democrats, anti-Trumpers are convinced Trump has committed serious crimes and should be removed. Republicans, pro-Trumpers hold the opposite view, no crimes whatsoever. I would say that most independents don't know what to believe. Probably more and more turning a deaf ear to all the shenanigans from both sides coming from Washington.

I would offer this bit of advice to the Democrats. Tone down the impeachment talk. Continue the investigations and hearings but in a more quiet manner. We've heard this impeachment talk for 2 1/2 years now. I think more and more independents either have put it all on ignore or are doing so. All this talk about impeachment, so far with no real crimes that can be understood as such by the American People, the democrats are running the very real risk that if they do uncover crimes that equate to impeachment and removal, no one will be listening outside of the avid anti-Trumpers. What the Democrats don't want is for impeachment to look like a one party affair, just Democrats and only Democrats minus most independents and Republicans. That could result in a taste of a political vendetta that very well could backfire big time on the Democrats. No matter how right they think they are. Impeachment is a political process with all its pluses and minuses. How that political process looks to all Americans, not just democrats, whether it is justified or as some sort of political revenge could carry over into the 2020 election. My two cents.
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What % of Independents is needed to make impeachment viable? Because, I think if the Democrats actually make a strong case they can get enough Independent support and maybe even 20% of the Republican population.

If anyone regardless of lean watches only Fox News and conservative talk radio they are operating under the belief that the Mueller Report was a total exoneration..

That's untrue!


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Winston said:
Not even close.


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Most Americans accept Mueller's findings on no collusion and Barr's ruling on no obstruction.

They recognize that the dems remain committed to focusing on nothing but overturning the results of the 2016 election.

It appears quite possible that the always bitter, angry and snivelling left wing of the dem party will force Pulosi's hand and thereby achieve the impossible ... to paint Donald J Trump as the victim. :popcorn2:
 
NiceGuyEddie said:
Most Americans accept Mueller's findings on no collusion and Barr's ruling on no obstruction.

They recognize that the dems remain committed to focusing on nothing but overturning the results of the 2016 election.

It appears quite possible that the always bitter, angry and snivelling left wing of the dem party will force Pulosi's hand and thereby achieve the impossible ... to paint Donald J Trump as the victim. :popcorn2:
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Most *misinformed* Americans accept the total exoneration hogwash.


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DiAnna said:
Useless and will backfire unless the majority of American citizens agree. If Democrats don't go through the tedious process of holding public hearings, which our can't-be-bothered-to-read majority will never see unfiltered by media bias, then they won't be able to provide the ratings that the Watergate Impeachment Inquiry Hearings provided to a televised hand-holding fact-finding process which normal rank-and-file citizens can actually understand.

Once they actually have heard the facts with their own ears, the majority of Americans may sway toward or against actual Impeachment proceedings. If the public sways toward Impeachment, the Democrats should proceed because there is a good chance the GOP Senators, anxious about the change in polls in their own districts, may vote to convict; if the public still doesn't give a damn, the Democrats should forget Impeachment altogether and concentrate on the 2020 election.
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I'm curious how you feel about the sustained Obstruction as seen by the WH preventing McGahn and Barr to testify before the House.

How are the Dems going to move the needle if the Obstruction continues unabated?


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Winston said:
Most *misinformed* Americans accept the total exoneration hogwash.


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The fact that it displeases you doesn't change the majority view.
 
NiceGuyEddie said:
The fact that it displeases you doesn't change the majority view.
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What I like or don't like is irrelevant to the Presidents criminality


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NiceGuyEddie said:
... the only party trying to get things done.
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They have produced over 100 pieces of legislation so far.. They are all mostly waiting in the Senate....
 
NiceGuyEddie said:
Most Americans accept Mueller's findings on no collusion and Barr's ruling on no obstruction.

They recognize that the dems remain committed to focusing on nothing but overturning the results of the 2016 election.

It appears quite possible that the always bitter, angry and snivelling left wing of the dem party will force Pulosi's hand and thereby achieve the impossible ... to paint Donald J Trump as the victim. :popcorn2:
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Yes, the Democrats are focused on politics. If politicians playing politics surprises or outrages you, this may not be the place for you.

When Bill Clinton was impeached, were Republicans trying to reversing the election of '92? Mind you, that was an ACTUAL impeachment., not a bunch of numbnuts talking about it.

So you did a great job repeating the script, but I don't think you out much thought into it.
 
Winston said:
I'm curious how you feel about the sustained Obstruction as seen by the WH preventing McGahn and Barr to testify before the House.

How are the Dems going to move the needle if the Obstruction continues unabated?


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Once the resolution for Impeachment Inquiry Hearings has been passed, that gives considerable increased leverage for the courts to uphold subpoenas and in fact to issue contempt citations for non-compliance. The congress can levy daily fines and/or issue arrest warrants (unlikely, but legal) for non-compliance of a joint congressional/court order.

That's how the Democrats quell the current obstruction; in the courts, in the pocketbook, and potentially with a loss of freedom.

GOP knows all this; they also know they will lose every time in court. They're just running out the clock.
 
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