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Russia Is NOt Our Friend

L

Lesh

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We all need to step back a minute

Putin attacked us. He used his (cyber) military to do it. That is not a question. Responsible people know this to be fact. It is not in dispute.

Putin is an ex KGB Colonel and FSB Director. He runs the largest Mafia style criminal organization on the planet and Trump is kissing his ass at every opportunity.

Putin (not unlike Trump) has one concern. Making himself as rich and powerful as possible and he has destroyed the nascent democracy that came out of the collapse of the Soviet Union. And part of making himself more powerful is making Russia a global power . That means reconstituting the Soviet Empire and of course using KGB tactics and military force to do it

That is NOT in our interest. In fact Putin sees our country as an enemy and he uses that to rile up the populace. He also see our President as a "friend". A friend he helped gain power.

How convenient to have a friend as President of the country you see as an enemy huh?

And guess what? Every responsible person understands that the attacks our elections (and OUR democracy) are ongoing and increasing.

The Dem House passed legislation to try and combat that. The GOP Senate won't even take up a vote on that legislation.

Trump is doing nothing and saying nothing.

We have a problem folks
 
Lesh said:
We all need to step back a minute

Putin attacked us. He used his (cyber) military to do it. That is not a question. Responsible people know this to be fact. It is not in dispute.

Putin is an ex KGB Colonel and FSB Director. He runs the largest Mafia style criminal organization on the planet and Trump is kissing his ass at every opportunity.

Putin (not unlike Trump) has one concern. Making himself as rich and powerful as possible and he has destroyed the nascent democracy that came out of the collapse of the Soviet Union. And part of making himself more powerful is making Russia a global power . That means reconstituting the Soviet Empire and of course using KGB tactics and military force to do it

That is NOT in our interest. In fact Putin sees our country as an enemy and he uses that to rile up the populace. He also see our President as a "friend". A friend he helped gain power.

How convenient to have a friend as President of the country you see as an enemy huh?

And guess what? Every responsible person understands that the attacks our elections (and OUR democracy) are ongoing and increasing.

The Dem House passed legislation to try and combat that. The GOP Senate won't even take up a vote on that legislation.

Trump is doing nothing and saying nothing.

We have a problem folks
Click to expand...
Obama was POTUS when this happened. Fact. Show me one post where you called him out for it.
 
In other news, the moon is apparently not cheese.
 
Lesh said:
We all need to step back a minute

...

We have a problem folks
Click to expand...
Supposing you're right, Pres. Putin is the aggressor and the US is under attack in some sense, what do you propose American leadership do about it?

Start WWIII?

Rattle sabers in a series of sternly-worded presidential speeches?

Wage a trade war on another front?
 
AlphaOmega said:
Obama was POTUS when this happened. Fact. Show me one post where you called him out for it.
Click to expand...
Look at this patriot choose partisanship over country.
 
COTO said:
Supposing you're right, Pres. Putin is the aggressor and the US is under attack in some sense, what do you propose American leadership do about it?

Start WWIII?

Rattle sabers in a series of sternly-worded presidential speeches?

Wage a trade war on another front?
Click to expand...
Zero ownership for Trump's current stance. They are going to do it again, and Trump claims Putin is our friend and believes him over our own intelligence agencies.

None of you care, because you get to benefit from these actions. Pitiful and disgraceful.
 
COTO said:
Supposing you're right, Pres. Putin is the aggressor and the US is under attack in some sense, what do you propose American leadership do about it?

Start WWIII?

Rattle sabers in a series of sternly-worded presidential speeches?

Wage a trade war on another front?
Click to expand...

We should like trump said, create a cyber security team that includes russia to protect our cyberspace, or nothing I guess.
 
TrueScotsman said:
Zero ownership for Trump's current stance. They are going to do it again, and Trump claims Putin is our friend and believes him over our own intelligence agencies.

None of you care, because you get to benefit from these actions. Pitiful and disgraceful.
Click to expand...
I don't care about your president one way or the other.

I want to know what the OP believes can/should be done to rectify the situation, and why he believes taking that course of action will help. I'm asking because I really don't see a lot of good options on the table for Uncle Sam right now. You've got a lot of enemies, very few allies, and you can ill afford starting wars--conventional or economic--on new fronts.

If you disagree, perhaps you could outline your vision to a better future.
 
bongsaway said:
We should like trump said, create a cyber security team that includes russia to protect our cyberspace, or nothing I guess.
Click to expand...
OK. That's one idea.

Would this take the form of an international consortium? What specific kinds of protection would it offer, and how much privacy would citizens of participating nations have to cede? Is there a specific proposal somewhere you'd be willing to back?
 
COTO said:
OK. That's one idea.

Would this take the form of an international consortium? What specific kinds of protection would it offer, and how much privacy would citizens of participating nations have to cede? Is there a specific proposal somewhere you'd be willing to back?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't that be letting the fox into the henhouse? Trump is an idiot for even making the suggestion.
 
COTO said:
I don't care about your president one way or the other.

I want to know what the OP believes can/should be done to rectify the situation, and why he believes taking that course of action will help. I'm asking because I really don't see a lot of good options on the table for Uncle Sam right now. You've got a lot of enemies, very few allies, and you can ill afford starting wars--conventional or economic--on new fronts.

If you disagree, perhaps you could outline your vision to a better future.
Click to expand...
The United States has very few allies? Okay, you have to be from the same reality if we are going to have a discussion.
 
bongsaway said:
Wouldn't that be letting the fox into the henhouse? Trump is an idiot for even making the suggestion.
Click to expand...
It depends on the depth of Russia's involvement.

If you're just partnering with other nations to draw up common standards, with everything being done in the light of day, it makes a great deal of sense to include Russia in the process. They have resources, expertise, and a vested interest in beefing up cybersecurity too. There are, believe it or not, Russians serving in the halls of the UN, walking the halls of cybersecurity symposiums, authoring reports for UNESCO, the IPCC, and a hundred other multinational ventures besides.

Are you people not sick to death of people pointing out problems but failing to suggest actionable solutions?

If Russia is a problem, let's hear some affirmative solutions.
 
TrueScotsman said:
The United States has very few allies? Okay, you have to be from the same reality if we are going to have a discussion.
Click to expand...
'Allies' in the sense of nations who'd be willing to back your next military or economic misadventure with anything more than a pat on the back and a "Go get 'em, tiger."

Sam's pool of allies in the sense of nations even willing to tolerate him is a little deeper, but it's quickly drying up as well.
 
COTO said:
'Allies' in the sense of nations who'd be willing to back your next military or economic misadventure with anything more than a pat on the back and a "Go get 'em, tiger."

Sam's pool of allies in the sense of nations even willing to tolerate him is a little deeper, but it's quickly drying up as well.
Click to expand...
Yeah if Russia invaded the Baltic, none of our NATO members would come to aid us, right? Our allies are still hugely connected to us economically and still participate in the World Bank and IMF.

Foreign policy expert, you are not. Don't you have your own country to ruin with backwards policies?
 
A friend to Putin would coddle Iran and give them billions in cash on a pallet. A friend of Putin would endorse a natural gas pipeline to Germany from Russia. A friend of Putin would support Maduro in Venezuela. A friend of Putin would tolerate a weak Nato. A friend of Putin would stymie energy development and exportation by the US. A friend of Putin wouldn't arm Ukraine and eastern Europe.

We don't know for sure if Russia hacked the DNC or Hillary. Not having a private server or a password that is "password " might be a good first step. Maybe vetting a family of foreign nationals from Pakistan better before giving them keys to national security would be another.

Would a directive by Trump stating no more private servers or weak passwords satisfy you? He'd be labeled xenophobic if he stressed to the Democrats to hire wisely or he could do what he is doing .....tough actions in America's interests against adversaries. China, North Korea, Russia, Iran, Syria......

Remember what Obama said when Romney said Russia posed the greatest threat......a friend would say that.......



Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
 
TrueScotsman said:
Yeah if Russia invaded the Baltic, none of our NATO members would come to aid us, right? Our allies are still hugely connected to us economically and still participate in the World Bank and IMF.
Click to expand...
If you're interpreting "allies" in the narrow sense of nations that would side with a US rather than Russian axis if WWIII broke out tomorrow, then yes, the US still has many allies.

I'm talking about allies in the general sense of nations with enduring goodwill towards America, and--more importantly--with the willingness to make meaningful sacrifices in service to US foreign policy objectives without massive quid pro quo. In this regard, the pool of nations who'd be willing to lift a finger to help you wage war on Russia, or Syria, or Iran, or Venezuela, or wherever it is your government next decides to spread peace and democracy, is growing mighty shallow.

The US is tapped out. You're a broke, dysfunctional empire entering the terminal phase of decline. Your influence in world affairs wanes by the year. And not only yours, that of all Western nations, including Europe and the British Commonwealth. If you don't think this is the reality, then you're right: we're never going to make any progress in this discussion.
 
Duh. No, Russia is not our friend. Who is crazy enough to deny it? Well, maybe the crazy orange guy who actually is more interested in his Trump Tower project in Moscow rather than in the interests of the American Nation and people.

Obama has once denied it too. I don't want to be partisan here.

Actually Romney was right.

I voted for Obama.

Now, looking back, I wonder if we'd be better off if Romney had won.

He would be certainly tougher on Russia.

By the way, even idiotic and incompetent campaigner Hillary Clinton would have been tougher on Russia.

Trump is a tool. Putin has him spinning around his little finger.
 
Lesh said:
We all need to step back a minute

Putin attacked us. He used his (cyber) military to do it. That is not a question. Responsible people know this to be fact. It is not in dispute.

Putin is an ex KGB Colonel and FSB Director. He runs the largest Mafia style criminal organization on the planet and Trump is kissing his ass at every opportunity.

Putin (not unlike Trump) has one concern. Making himself as rich and powerful as possible and he has destroyed the nascent democracy that came out of the collapse of the Soviet Union. And part of making himself more powerful is making Russia a global power . That means reconstituting the Soviet Empire and of course using KGB tactics and military force to do it

That is NOT in our interest. In fact Putin sees our country as an enemy and he uses that to rile up the populace. He also see our President as a "friend". A friend he helped gain power.

How convenient to have a friend as President of the country you see as an enemy huh?

And guess what? Every responsible person understands that the attacks our elections (and OUR democracy) are ongoing and increasing.

The Dem House passed legislation to try and combat that. The GOP Senate won't even take up a vote on that legislation.

Trump is doing nothing and saying nothing.

We have a problem folks
Click to expand...
Our biggest problem is fools equating Putin and Trump. Trump Derangement Syndrome destroys all rational thought.
 
Bullseye said:
Our biggest problem is fools equating Putin and Trump. Trump Derangement Syndrome destroys all rational thought.
Click to expand...

Wrong. Denial and blindness as far as Trump's shortcomings go, destroy all rational thought.
 
COTO said:
It depends on the depth of Russia's involvement.

If you're just partnering with other nations to draw up common standards, with everything being done in the light of day, it makes a great deal of sense to include Russia in the process. They have resources, expertise, and a vested interest in beefing up cybersecurity too. There are, believe it or not, Russians serving in the halls of the UN, walking the halls of cybersecurity symposiums, authoring reports for UNESCO, the IPCC, and a hundred other multinational ventures besides.

Are you people not sick to death of people pointing out problems but failing to suggest actionable solutions?

If Russia is a problem, let's hear some affirmative solutions.
Click to expand...

Here's an affirmative solution. Deal with russia within the reality of what they are, our enemy.
 
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