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What is Gender

For instance if someone claims they are female in gender, becasue they feel strong e emotions, or like the touch of a strong man, it seems to deminish someone else who claims female gender yet isn’t emotional and doesn’t like men.

Do you 'like' the touch of a strong man?
 
Gender is becoming a personal choice like race or ethnicity.

And beauty. I personally choose to be outstandingly good looking. 'Race' is a free choice for everyone of course as races have no genetic basis and are entirely fictitious.

As for 'gender' - a grammatical term , misappropriated by fools.
 
It seems the idea of gender is vague. And that there is inherent contradiction within progressive thought on this issue.

I think you have a lot to learn on the issue. "Vague" is the word for someone who doesn't understand it, not that it actually is that vague. But a basic concept is the difference between 'biological gender' and 'gender identity', which usually match, but not always.
 
Do you 'like' the touch of a strong man?

That's an issue of sexual orientation, not gender. Both women and men can be attracted to either (or both) genders.
 
Does it mean whatever one wants it to mean? Or is it objective?

I can believe it has a hormonal, chemical basis. If so, it's objective.

I dont know.
 
Yep, but does that mean that one should be able to self-identify as a senior (or youth) to get a discounted meal? How about claiming social security benefits when one feels that they should be able to retire - after all, age is just a number on a government document just as gender is just a word (or letter) on one. Should anyone (everyone?) be able to self-declare as a minority to get special treatment on a government contract by having a minority owned business?

What specific issues to you see for gender identification?

The only one I really see is sports.
 
I can believe it has a hormonal, chemical basis. If so, it's objective.

I dont know.

I am not talking g sbout the persons condition, or feelings. I am talking sbout certain concepts of gender.

Is gender a definite Thing? If so, what?

Or is it just a subjective vague shifting idea, a social construct?

Often times I have seen liberals suggest it’s a social construct.


If so, what does it mean to be trans social construct?
 
I think you have a lot to learn on the issue. "Vague" is the word for someone who doesn't understand it, not that it actually is that vague. But a basic concept is the difference between 'biological gender' and 'gender identity', which usually match, but not always.

Yes I have heard Thst many times. What is gender identity? Is it objective, or s social construct?
 
Yes I have heard Thst many times. What is gender identity? Is it objective, or s social construct?

I'm pretty sure it's largely it's at least largely objective, since it happens randomly to a seemingly somewhat consistent low percent of people anywhere, and without any social queues or pressures for it, in fact very much against them - and is detectable at very young ages before any real learning of gender identity is understood. Of course, social influences have an effect on people. Just as with things like homosexuality, where some desperately try to not be homosexual, to no avail.
 
I'm pretty sure it's largely it's at least largely objective, since it happens randomly to a seemingly somewhat consistent low percent of people anywhere, and without any social queues or pressures for it, in fact very much against them - and is detectable at very young ages before any real learning of gender identity is understood. Of course, social influences have an effect on people. Just as with things like homosexuality, where some desperately try to not be homosexual, to no avail.

I am not asking if there is some objective condition or reason from rmthese peilkes feelings. Most likely there is.

I am asking what the concept of gender indentity is. Is it an objective thing, or just a social construct.
 
It seems the idea of gender is vague. And that there is inherent contradiction within progressive thought on this issue.

On the one hand, gender stereotypes are frowned upon and equality is emphasized, on the other hand, the very idea of claiming to be a gender infers some kind of stereotype.

So what does it mean to be a male, or female gender?

It seems any description one would give, could be seen as an insulting stereotype to someone else claiming that gender, but lacks that quality just claimed.


For instance if someone claims they are female in gender, becasue they feel strong e emotions, or like the touch of a strong man, it seems to deminish someone else who claims female gender yet isn’t emotional and doesn’t like men.


It seems the logical conclusion is gender is purely construct, and subjective.


but if it’s subjective, why make a big deal about it when others disagree?
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Gender has been tied to physical sex for millennia, and not without good reason. But as our knowledge grows and we learn more and as people become more open as to their true selves, we learn that what we thought is not always correct.

Gender is as objective as one's own emotions are. While emotions are subjectively applied to any given thing/situation/etc, one objectively experiences them. It is an objectivity that only the possessor of the emotion can have. So too with one's gender.

Gender expectations and roles are indeed social constructs and have changed countless times over the centuries and cultures. What makes you a given gender has nothing to do with how emotional you are, or protective, or strong or anything. You can fulfill all of the traits of a currently stereotypical female and still know you are male, regardless of what you were born with between you legs.

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There are. Google "hermaphrodite."
That has to do with the physical body, not the gender. Gender flex is the term for those who are both.

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Should we allow adding age and income to those self-defined traits? So long as laws are applied differently based on a trait then their need to be established standards which can be used by others (all?) to determine them. I think you may be confusing what I (or any person is) am with who I am (or any person is).

While age and income are objective values in and of themselves, if one does not possess the information, determination can be very subjective indeed. I am usually seen as about 5 to 8 years younger than I am. My wife, who is 7 years older, is typically seen as younger than they think I am. That said, these are externally objective values, and are not inherent traits.

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What specific issues to you see for gender identification?

The only one I really see is sports.

Hmm... how about public restroom/shower access, jail/prison cohabitation, the military draft and military "fitnness" standards?
 
Hmm... how about public restroom/shower access, jail/prison cohabitation, the military draft and military "fitnness" standards?
Restrooms should not be an issue. You're either standing at a urinal or sitting in a stall. If anyone is trying to look at you, or you are looking at anyone, that is the problem right there, gender and sex not a component. Same can be said about military fitness standards. Either you can do the 100 push ups or you can't. Gender nor sex enters into it.

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While age and income are objective values in and of themselves, if one does not possess the information, determination can be very subjective indeed. I am usually seen as about 5 to 8 years younger than I am. My wife, who is 7 years older, is typically seen as younger than they think I am. That said, these are externally objective values, and are not inherent traits.

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Thus the (legal?) requirement that age and gender are currently determined at birth. If one is free to self-assign some other "determination" based on their personal feelings (opinion?) then those traits become indeterminate and rather fluid. Income/asset value is also left to outside (government?) definition and determination and cannot simply be self-designated based on personal preference (some laws refer to that as fraud).
 
Restrooms should not be an issue. You're either standing at a urinal or sitting in a stall. If anyone is trying to look at you, or you are looking at anyone, that is the problem right there, gender and sex not a component. Same can be said about military fitness standards. Either you can do the 100 push ups or you can't. Gender nor sex enters into it.

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Hmm... by selecting only some elements of my post to try to refute in your reply, are you consenting to the validity of the rest?
 
It seems the idea of gender is vague. And that there is inherent contradiction within progressive thought on this issue.

On the one hand, gender stereotypes are frowned upon and equality is emphasized, on the other hand, the very idea of claiming to be a gender infers some kind of stereotype.

So what does it mean to be a male, or female gender?

It seems any description one would give, could be seen as an insulting stereotype to someone else claiming that gender, but lacks that quality just claimed.


For instance if someone claims they are female in gender, becasue they feel strong e emotions, or like the touch of a strong man, it seems to deminish someone else who claims female gender yet isn’t emotional and doesn’t like men.


It seems the logical conclusion is gender is purely construct, and subjective.


but if it’s subjective, why make a big deal about it when others disagree?
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And the political point of this thread?

* Side note - The speaker implies, and the listener infers.
 
Thus the (legal?) requirement that age and gender are currently determined at birth. If one is free to self-assign some other "determination" based on their personal feelings (opinion?) then those traits become indeterminate and rather fluid. Income/asset value is also left to outside (government?) definition and determination and cannot simply be self-designated based on personal preference (some laws refer to that as fraud).

I noted that various objective criteria, when lacking the supporting evidence, can be subjectively interpreted. I am not saying that, especially for legal purposes, that they should only subjectively seen.

While correct on age, gender is not determined at birth, but assumed. Sex is determined at birth, unless intersexed, and even then can be objectively determined by genetics.

Income is both objective and subjective. Objectively, because we use a set monetary system, so 1 dollar is 1dollar. However, the value of that dollar is subjective. And not just to a given individual. The value of a dollar in 1970 is not the same as its value in 2010. Additionally the application of that dollar's value is subjective. The creator of, say a lamp, may value that lamp at 10 dollars, whereas you only value it at 5. Cost and value are not the same.

The question ends up being what do we need to have legally and objectively determined? Sex, medically speaking, is indeed important, separate from gender. Biologically it is necessary for proper diagnosis. Age makes for a good guideline in determining maturity for legal purposes, as long as we realized that it is not an absolute. Beyond that, what matters on an individual's makeup?

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Hmm... by selecting only some elements of my post to try to refute in your reply, are you consenting to the validity of the rest?
They certainly do take some more consideration. Given that the Israeli military has coed barracks where men and women shower and bunk together with no issues, certainly we can arrive at a point where at least shower/locker room facilities no longer require sex separation. We might even be eventually be able to say that of the prison system. But given the now openness of gays, how is separation preventing any kind of sexual assault, physical or visual?

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Gender is becoming a personal choice like race or ethnicity.

I am waiting for the day when I can say I am a millionaire and voila...it's true just because I say it is...:2razz:
 
Thus the (legal?) requirement that age and gender are currently determined at birth. If one is free to self-assign some other "determination" based on their personal feelings (opinion?) then those traits become indeterminate and rather fluid. Income/asset value is also left to outside (government?) definition and determination and cannot simply be self-designated based on personal preference (some laws refer to that as fraud).

Trump identifies as a trillionaire.
 
I am waiting for the day when I can say I am a millionaire and voila...it's true just because I say it is...:2razz:

How about the day when you can say "I'm poor" and get Medicaid, SNAP, subsidized rent and pay no (or negative) federal income tax?
 
It seems the idea of gender is vague. And that there is inherent contradiction within progressive thought on this issue.

On the one hand, gender stereotypes are frowned upon and equality is emphasized, on the other hand, the very idea of claiming to be a gender infers some kind of stereotype.

So what does it mean to be a male, or female gender?

It seems any description one would give, could be seen as an insulting stereotype to someone else claiming that gender, but lacks that quality just claimed.


For instance if someone claims they are female in gender, becasue they feel strong e emotions, or like the touch of a strong man, it seems to deminish someone else who claims female gender yet isn’t emotional and doesn’t like men.


It seems the logical conclusion is gender is purely construct, and subjective.


but if it’s subjective, why make a big deal about it when others disagree?
Tags:

Gender is 100% constructed and arbitrarily made up, that has different meanings depending on who's saying or when it's being used. Gender used to be synonymous with sex, and this construct of gender being a different thing popped up sometime, iirc, in the 60's and it had nothing to do with transgender but it was part of the feminist movement to denote how women are treated in society.

Transgender is a misnomer and the actual term should be transsexual. Transgender, if we were going to use that term as anything of value (it isn't) would be what we'd call Tomboys or Metrosexuals, those who break society gender norms.
 
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