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A real and possible constitutional crisis!!

I

independentusa

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I think what will create a real and more possible crisis is what will happen if the House holds someone in contempt and then sends that contempt of the Congress to the DOJ for legal action and the DOJ refuses to act. The DOJ is responsible for taking legal action when someone is held in contempt of the Congress, but I can see Barr refusing to do so on what grounds I have no idea. I think this is why at this point none of those who have refused to testify when subpoenaed by the House committees have lead to a contempt vote by the whole House. That vote would be to hold anyone who refused a subpoena in contempt but what then. Then the House would expect the DOJ would take action and it would not, leading to a very real and very possible constitutional crisis. It would certainly end up in the courts, but even then would the DOJ take action as Trump has said that no one has oversight over the executive branch. Thus we will have the constitutional crisis everyone has talked about.
 
My opinion is that we have already entered Constitutional crisis territory.
 
independentusa said:
I think what will create a real and more possible crisis is what will happen if the House holds someone in contempt and then sends that contempt of the Congress to the DOJ for legal action and the DOJ refuses to act. The DOJ is responsible for taking legal action when someone is held in contempt of the Congress, but I can see Barr refusing to do so on what grounds I have no idea. I think this is why at this point none of those who have refused to testify when subpoenaed by the House committees have lead to a contempt vote by the whole House. That vote would be to hold anyone who refused a subpoena in contempt but what then. Then the House would expect the DOJ would take action and it would not, leading to a very real and very possible constitutional crisis. It would certainly end up in the courts, but even then would the DOJ take action as Trump has said that no one has oversight over the executive branch. Thus we will have the constitutional crisis everyone has talked about.
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The House doesn't need the DOJ. They have their own legal department to deal with such things.

Oh...wait...you didn't know about the rule changes Pelosi made, did you? Oh well...
 
independentusa said:
I think what will create a real and more possible crisis is what will happen if the House holds someone in contempt and then sends that contempt of the Congress to the DOJ for legal action and the DOJ refuses to act. The DOJ is responsible for taking legal action when someone is held in contempt of the Congress, but I can see Barr refusing to do so on what grounds I have no idea. I think this is why at this point none of those who have refused to testify when subpoenaed by the House committees have lead to a contempt vote by the whole House. That vote would be to hold anyone who refused a subpoena in contempt but what then. Then the House would expect the DOJ would take action and it would not, leading to a very real and very possible constitutional crisis. It would certainly end up in the courts, but even then would the DOJ take action as Trump has said that no one has oversight over the executive branch. Thus we will have the constitutional crisis everyone has talked about.
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If it is a "constitutional crisis" it started in 2012 under the obams administration when Holder was held in contempt of congress.

The Trump administration should follow precedent and tie it up in appeals for the next 7 years and then have it dismissed with prejuidice as it will no longer be relative by then.



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trouble13 said:
If it is a "constitutional crisis" it started in 2012 under the obams administration when Holder was held in contempt of congress.

The Trump administration should follow precedent and tie it up in appeals for the next 7 years and then have it dismissed with prejuidice as it will no longer be relative by then.



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You do realize that Holder eventually handed over all of the info that the GOP congress wanted. In fact, the Obama administration's only problem was not getting the info as fast as the GOP thought they ought to do so.
 
Mycroft said:
The House doesn't need the DOJ. They have their own legal department to deal with such things.

Oh...wait...you didn't know about the rule changes Pelosi made, did you? Oh well...
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MY wife just told me I was wrong, but the final situation remains the same, what if the courts order the Trump people to testify or go to jail and trump pardons them?
 
independentusa said:
MY wife just told me I was wrong, but the final situation remains the same, what if the courts order the Trump people to testify or go to jail and trump pardons them?
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I don't give a rat's ass about "what if".

If Trump pardons someone, he pardons them. It is within his power as President to do so.

My advice to you is this: Suck it up and move on.
 
independentusa said:
You do realize that Holder eventually handed over all of the info that the GOP congress wanted. In fact, the Obama administration's only problem was not getting the info as fast as the GOP thought they ought to do so.
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That wasnt what you asked. You asked what would happen if someone from the doj was held in contempt of Congress. That is not a new thing as i pointed out. Calling it a constitutional crisis is nothing but partisan hyperbole.

If history is any example they will tie it up in court until its no longer relevant and than lwt it fade into the sunset.

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independentusa said:
MY wife just told me I was wrong, but the final situation remains the same, what if the courts order the Trump people to testify or go to jail and trump pardons them?
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That by definition would not be Constitution crisis since Constitutional mechanisms were used to deal with the issue.
 
independentusa said:
I think what will create a real and more possible crisis is what will happen if the House holds someone in contempt and then sends that contempt of the Congress to the DOJ for legal action and the DOJ refuses to act. The DOJ is responsible for taking legal action when someone is held in contempt of the Congress, but I can see Barr refusing to do so on what grounds I have no idea. I think this is why at this point none of those who have refused to testify when subpoenaed by the House committees have lead to a contempt vote by the whole House. That vote would be to hold anyone who refused a subpoena in contempt but what then. Then the House would expect the DOJ would take action and it would not, leading to a very real and very possible constitutional crisis. It would certainly end up in the courts, but even then would the DOJ take action as Trump has said that no one has oversight over the executive branch. Thus we will have the constitutional crisis everyone has talked about.
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LOL. You guys have been screaming constitutional crisis ever since the electoral college elected Trump in 2016 and you haven't stopped yet. The country's still going strong. Don't you guys ever get tired of saying, "The sky is falling"?
 
Mycroft said:
I don't give a rat's ass about "what if".

If Trump pardons someone, he pardons them. It is within his power as President to do so.

My advice to you is this: Suck it up and move on.
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Wrong, he can not pardon someone to protect himself which in this situation would be exactly what he is doing...
 
Moderate Right said:
LOL. You guys have been screaming constitutional crisis ever since the electoral college elected Trump in 2016 and you haven't stopped yet. The country's still going strong. Don't you guys ever get tired of saying, "The sky is falling"?
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I'm not as worried about the sky as I am the foundation of our government and society...
 
independentusa said:
I think what will create a real and more possible crisis is what will happen if the House holds someone in contempt and then sends that contempt of the Congress to the DOJ for legal action and the DOJ refuses to act. The DOJ is responsible for taking legal action when someone is held in contempt of the Congress, but I can see Barr refusing to do so on what grounds I have no idea. I think this is why at this point none of those who have refused to testify when subpoenaed by the House committees have lead to a contempt vote by the whole House. That vote would be to hold anyone who refused a subpoena in contempt but what then. Then the House would expect the DOJ would take action and it would not, leading to a very real and very possible constitutional crisis. It would certainly end up in the courts, but even then would the DOJ take action as Trump has said that no one has oversight over the executive branch. Thus we will have the constitutional crisis everyone has talked about.
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Well, what happened to Eric Holder?

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independentusa said:
MY wife just told me I was wrong, but the final situation remains the same, what if the courts order the Trump people to testify or go to jail and trump pardons them?
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Then the balance of powers will be working. And Congress can impeach Trump. Which will also be the balance of powers working.

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GDViking said:
I'm not as worried about the sky as I am the foundation of our government and society...
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The government is still open for business. We still have courts. We still have the Senate. And, yes, we have the House. You guys continue to say the sky is falling and that Trump wants to be a dictator. Well, Trump's running in 2020. If he was hell bent on being a dictator we wouldn't need a 2020 election, now would we?
 
Rexedgar said:
My opinion is that we have already entered Constitutional crisis territory.
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the court system hasn't failed yet, but it does seem apparent that the precedent has been set for a president to claim that he or she is above the law and that the oversight duty of congress is invalid and can be ignored. the upside is that as it stands, a president is not president forever, and if i understand it correctly, he or she can be thoroughly investigated and prosecuted after leaving office. if this is done correctly, we can effectively discourage future presidents from following suit.
 
GDViking said:
Wrong, he can not pardon someone to protect himself which in this situation would be exactly what he is doing...
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Effectively I believe he can. The President’s pardon power absolute. There is nothing Constitutionally restricting who he can pardon and for what purpose. Those actions may be corrupt and open him to possible violations of other laws but given the Justice Department’s position on indicting a sitting President the only recourse would impeachment or the ballot box. And in either case people who he pardoned cannot be retroactively unpardoned.
 
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