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Judge orders Trump Accounts to hand over info to House!

HumblePi said:
I just posted a thread in 'breaking news' - NON MSM

This is not good news for Trump because this is his own personal financial accounting firm. Whether they comply with Congress or not is unsure, but for a business it's not a good thing for them to be in contempt of Congress and a Federal court order.
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If this is a third-party accounting firm, I strongly suspect they will comply.

While Trump as President obviously holds a lot of sway, this business entity is not going to let the courts put them out of business for contempt.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Liberals talking honesty........................what a bunch of hypocrisy.
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Yeah, China is paying the tariffs, Trump's father was born in Germany and U.S. Steel is opening six new plants.

Republicans are just a joke now.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
I don't understand people like you. What's the big deal here? He's president. He shouldn't have financial secrets. Why are you supporting his right to conceal the truth from the American people? It makes no sense.

He's not some ordinary citizen. Don't we have a right to know about financial involvements our leaders have that may be conflicts of interest?
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we're operating under cult rules now. makes more sense when you look at it that way.
 
ocean515 said:
I would tend to agree. At least at this point. It remains to be seen what happens next.

Mazar left an interesting "door" in the ruling:

Judge upholds Dem subpoena for Trump financial records - POLITICO


“...it is not the court’s role to decipher whether Congress’s true purpose in pursuing an investigation is to aid legislation or something more sinister such as exacting political retribution,” Mehta wrote.​


The operative is: "It is not the court's role to decipher...."


Maybe not Mazar's court, but another court could.
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Courts have ruled on this numerous times since 1880 with always the same conclusion.

Congress has a Constitutionals right and duty to perform government oversite and the courts don't get involved in proving motive as long as a viable purpose exists, as it does here.

It's not a difficult case. It has been adjudicated again and again with always the same conclusion. The judge here is so certain of this that a stay request was denied.

It also hurt Trumps case tremendously by him saying the White House will not cooperate with ANY Congressional subpoena's. A blanket denial without a provided rationale never sits well with most federal judges.
 
ocean515 said:
Well, that is, of course, open to interpretation, and political filter.
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It's not. Congress has lawful authority here. It's Trump who is demanding special treatment.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
Yeah, China is paying the tariffs, Trump's father was born in Germany and U.S. Steel is opening six new plants.

Republicans are just a joke now.
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And Ford is laying off 7,000 workers, but Trump will turn that into a good thing somehow. Ford got nearly $750 million in tax breaks from the Trump tax scam and paid its CEO $18 million last year.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
I don't understand people like you. What's the big deal here? He's president. He shouldn't have financial secrets. Why are you supporting his right to conceal the truth from the American people? It makes no sense.
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But your argument is based on a flawed assumption. For example, I don't understand people like you. Just because someone feels a certain way, doesn't mean a citizens rights should be violated.

People shouldn't forget that these feelings the Dems in the House have are based on the words of a convicted liar, and information that has come from discredited sources. Is that a sufficient basis to deny a citizen their rights?

I believe the Constitution details the requirements for anyone seeking the Office of President. Nowhere does it say such candidate must provide tax returns. The President has provided financial information, as required. That requirement does not include a demand they provide tax returns.

I would feel exactly the same way if the roles were reversed, and a Republican House was trying to get a Democratic Party President's tax returns.

This is clearly a partisan attack. Whether it is successful or not, remains to be seen.
 
beefheart said:
An honest president wouldn't try so hard to hide things.
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Or maybe the President would like to see his rights respected and not have his financials used as a political weapon by the ****ers on the other side.
 
ocean515 said:
No appeal? Really? Are you sure about that?
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Trump can appeal, but the judge refused Trump's request for a stay pending appeal. Which means the judge's subpoena order is currently in force.
 
tres borrachos said:
We will have to wait until we have an honest President again. This one is the polar opposite.
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Don't hold your breath, because there is no such thing as an honest ANYTHING when it comes to politicians.
 
Chomsky said:
Trump can appeal, but the judge refused Trump's request for a stay pending appeal. Which means the judge's subpoena order is currently in force.
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The best part about this is that the appeals judge is going to be, Merrick Garland!

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Helix said:
we're operating under cult rules now. makes more sense when you look at it that way.
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If feel that Trump's cult has revealed something about human nature and politics that I find very depressing.

If people like a politician enough then all rationality goes out the window. They will support almost anything that politician does.

We're one charismatic leader away from a dictatorship.
 
MovingPictures said:
They can still try to appeal the ruling, but Trump's team were not granted a stay, which means Mazars must comply with the subpoena in the meantime.
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Exactly!

If Mazer shows contempt for the current order, they do so at their own peril.
 
Chomsky said:
If this is a third-party accounting firm, I strongly suspect they will comply.

While Trump as President obviously holds a lot of sway, this business entity is not going to let the courts put them out of business for contempt.
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It's almost certain they will comply.
 
Rogue Valley said:
Courts have ruled on this numerous times since 1880 with always the same conclusion.

Congress has a Constitutionals right and duty to perform government oversite and the courts don't get involved in proving motive as long as a viable purpose exists, as it does here.

It's not a difficult case. It has been adjudicated again and again with always the same conclusion. The judge here is so certain of this that a stay request was denied.

It also hurt Trumps case tremendously by him saying the White House will not cooperate with ANY Congressional subpoena's. A blanket denial without a provided rationale never sits well with most federal judges.
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You hit the point of contention.

"As long as a viable purpose exists".

I get the left wants to end Donald Trump.

But a subjective emotional feeling should not be grounds for violating a citizens rights, nor paving the path to achieve such an objective.
 
roughdraft274 said:
Of course he is. But I don't have a right to stall a subpoena from congress through years of appeals and neither does he. He filed his lawsuit. He was laughed out of court essentially. This is as clear cut as it gets. If another court wishes to order a halt on the order they can. But without that, he doesn't get to just stall forever. That's not a right.
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That's a good analysis.

To be honest, I felt the prior case-law and precedent was pretty clear, as seen today. But you never know what can happen in any given courtroom ...
 
HumblePi said:
And Ford is laying off 7,000 workers, but Trump will turn that into a good thing somehow. Ford got nearly $750 million in tax breaks from the Trump tax scam and paid its CEO $18 million last year.
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Back again with your misleading info?!? :lol:

Ford will lay off up to 800 salaried employees (management) in North America.
 
ocean515 said:
You get to stay free from dying!
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Change it to life in prison. You don't get to stay out of prison during appeals. But like I said, comparing a criminal conviction to a court matter regarding subpoenas from the government and we might as well be comparing apples and potatoes.
ocean515 said:
Backlogs and court time frames aren't measures of justice, unless I suppose you're speaking of a right to a speedy trial.

It seems clear these documents are set to be handed over, based on the ruling. However, that doesn't mean they will be.


Should the House prevail in this obvious political stunt, it will be interesting to see how they act. I would tread lightly.

There are powers other members of Congress have along an identical line, that could prove embarrassing to the House members pursuing this.
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Oh no! Congress might become political! What would we ever do if that happened?!?!

Congress has good reason to ask for these records.
 
Chomsky said:
Trump can appeal, but the judge refused Trump's request for a stay pending appeal. Which means the judge's subpoena order is currently in force.
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Yes, I understand that. But that doesn't remove the President's right to appeal. I would seem that at this point, these records are set to be released. It remains to be seen if they actually will be.

My hope is the next court in the process will rule in favor of the President. Not because I think he has anything to hide, but because of the precedent the partisan members of the House are setting.


My hope has been this era of extremism would have peaked already. It's apparent it has not.


The next Dem in the White House is doomed to never ending attack and accusation. That's too bad, but it most certainly will be justified.
 
ocean515 said:
Why would his legal team be calling Kavanaugh?

It is reported the President will be exercising his legal right to appeal, just like any citizen of the United States has a right to do.
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That judge said “no stay of order” pending appeal.
 
HumblePi said:
And Ford is laying off 7,000 workers, but Trump will turn that into a good thing somehow. Ford got nearly $750 million in tax breaks from the Trump tax scam and paid its CEO $18 million last year.
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It's not Trump's fault Ford can't manage their money.
 
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