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Biden vs. Sanders - Biden way ahead in Pennsylvania

Yes and no. They don't behave in the same way, courts and Congress.

But whether you can GET that 'progressive Congress' is greatly affected by the court, for a start - the court takeover has largely been about partisan elections since Nixon.

Unlimited money in politics, gerrymandering done far more by Republicans, all kinds of voter suppression laws by Republicans, and more are all allowed or disallowed by the courts, and the far-right judges allow all of that.

You might not be aware of things such as a doctrine the Federalist Society is planning to spring on the country, which has the Supreme Court saying Congress is not allowed to delegate decision making to federal agencies.

So, for example, when Congress sets a broad rule for the FDA or EPA and has them make thousands of specific findings that have the rule of law, this doctrine would strike that law down and demand every one of those thousands of detailed findings must directly be passed by congress.

The whole point is to cripple the functioning of government, and deny the power to the people to actually regulate the powerful interests. How many in the public understand that?

For sure, I don't doubt that the judiciary at the edges, when populated by right wing judges, hampers and erodes the progressive agenda.

However, the greatest and most direct threat to it at present, and likely for the foreseeable future, most certainly is the Congress and Senate.

While I agree that the SCOTUS truly dropped a very substantial hammer whose impact echos through time in terms of campaign finance per Buckley v Valeo in 76, the festering root of so much that is wrong with this country, that has long been settled unfortunately. Moreover, the solution to this is predicated on a Constitutional amendment per State convention or the Congress.
 
Bernie beat Hillary among the country, but couldn't beat her name recognition and media coverage advantages in the Democratic primaries.

Bernie beat Hillary among the country

Especially with the black vote in the south(LOL)
 
According to what?

I mean the only thing I've seen even remotely suggesting this is his well-justified stance against payday loan companies, and so far as I can tell, his stance wasn't inspired by AOC's so much as being the sort of position he's generally held since they were a thing.

True, but I find any association with that snot toxic. Same goes for Gillibrant, for different reasons.
 
Thankfully.
And then, after Bernie loses, do brace for all the whining his followers will engage in. According to them, it will be the DNC's fault, the Establishment's fault, old people's fault, Wall Street's fault, and so forth. God forbid they'd consider that it would be that loser Bernie Sanders' fault.

I always complain when the person I support in the primaries doesn't win. Is that wrong?
 
Exactly. People are shallow and ignorant. Then, in the continuation of your post, you contradict yourself by assuming people vote for policy.

You can doubt it as much as you want (like I said, you guys are in denial) but that's not what the numbers are showing. His support is shrinking.

Not to the degree that Warren and Harris will hurt Bernie.

Oh wait, I thought you said people don't give a s.... about politics? Wouldn't that include policy?

Funny how Biden is the least wealthy among all senators and former senators. Where is the product of all this corruption???


LOL, you think Trump won on policy???

Trump won based on sexism, racism, and xenophobia. I'd call these, prejudices, rather than policies. And he also won based on his uncanny ability to seduce the public (a part of it). He is a typical con man. He'd flip-flop on policy in a second if it served him; you know that. Example, "Mexico will pay for the wall. No, Congress will pay for the wall. No, national emergency will pay for the wall. We'll make a great deal with China, I'm the deal maker. No, we'll impose tariffs on China. No, China will be paying us billions because of the tariffs (no such thing, that's not how it works). We'll find a way to fix the Dreamers problem. No, it's the Dems' problem, they are the ones obstructing it. We'll give the best healthcare for all. Oh wait, healthcare is more complicated than I thougth. We'll annihilate North Korea. Oh wait, I love North Korea's dictator."

Trump doesn't give a rats' ass about policy. His policy is his humongous ego and his pocket. His base doesn't give a rats' ass about policy either, as long as the blacks and browns and Mexicans and Muslims are down. Again, that's prejudice rather than policy.

I think racism was a part of Trump winning, but to dismiss all conservative voters as racists is writing them off too fast.

They really do care about policy. Why the hell don't you?

Also people tuning out of politics and then tuning in during election season does not mean they don't care about policy. Why do you think that?


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If you think Biden wouldn't be divisive, you would certainly be incorrect.

Moreover, Bernie and his policies are plenty popular with independents (which do not default to 'moderates' to be clear).

Lastly, what exactly is 'hypocritical' about Bernie?

Well, independents are going with Biden by 61%.

What's hypocritical about Bernie? Oh boy! He bashes the Democratic Party, but joins it again, just to run. In 2016 he spent four fifths of the campaign whining about the superdelegates system saying that the people should choose, then when the popular vote went for Hillary, he begged the superdelegates to vote for him, disregarding the popular vote. If this is not hypocritical, I don't know what else qualifies.
 
Bernie beat Hillary among the country, but couldn't beat her name recognition and media coverage advantages in the Democratic primaries.

Yep, he couldn't beat her, the loser.
 
I think racism was a part of Trump winning, but to dismiss all conservative voters as racists is writing them off too fast.

They really do care about policy. Why the hell don't you?

Also people tuning out of politics and then tuning in during election season does not mean they don't care about policy. Why do you think that?


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I care about policy. I'm talking about the others.
 
I care about policy. I'm talking about the others.

Well, I'm glad, let's debate policy and decide our candidates based upon policy rather than politics.
 
Well, I'm glad, let's debate policy and decide our candidates based upon policy rather than politics.

I wish we could do that. But the way things are right now, I prefer to pick the candidate most likely to defeat Trump. We'll worry abut policy later, once the Trump Crime Family is kicked out of the White House. Priorities, priorities.
 
Biden boasted of getting the deputy Ukrainian prosecutor fired because he was looking into the shady deals. He did this as sitting VP. With all the whining and tooth gnashing that the left has done over Trump's deals, you'd think they'd be particularly attuned to such a thing. Of course the real deal breaker with Biden is his rapidly slipping mind. A brain addled 78 year old is not getting elected POTUS. I'd be surprised if the Dems are foolish enough to nominate him but who knows.

I can't see Joe having strong debate performance with any Democrat or Trump. third time won't be a charm it's gonna be slog for old Joe
 
I can't see Joe having strong debate performance with any Democrat or Trump. third time won't be a charm it's gonna be slog for old Joe

As my mother use to say...


"We shall see"..........
 
Well, independents are going with Biden by 61%.

What, at the national level? Not talking about the primary.

What's hypocritical about Bernie? Oh boy! He bashes the Democratic Party, but joins it again, just to run. In 2016 he spent four fifths of the campaign whining about the superdelegates system saying that the people should choose, then when the popular vote went for Hillary, he begged the superdelegates to vote for him, disregarding the popular vote. If this is not hypocritical, I don't know what else qualifies.

You're certainly allowed to criticize the Dem party despite being a member without being a hypocrite; I don't recognize the hypocrisy there.

As to the superdelegates, Bernie didn't beg anyone; his campaign manager Weaver, and Weaver alone, cited that as a possible path to victory. Beyond that, I didn't see any evidence Bernie was advocating or working towards this as a means of victory.
 
Yep, he couldn't beat her, the loser.

Yeah, a nobody from Vermont starting at 2-3% with no money failed to beat a Dem incumbent at 60%+ with near universal name recognition who had a mountain of allies, a sprawling warchest, and the entire Dem machine behind her plus a skewed and beholden DNC she literally bailed out with her own funds; what an absolute loser! Y'know, not unlike a certain past presidential candidate otherwise known as Biden who got utterly and totally smoked the last two times he tried running for president despite not facing nearly the same mountain of handicaps. Hell, the guy even flunked out of the VP primaries, and only by Obama's good graces and charity was he taken up in that position.

You can't call Bernie a loser without mentioning Biden in the same breath; if Bernie is a 'loser', that goes triple for him; at least.
 
Yeah, a nobody from Vermont starting at 2-3% with no money failed to beat a Dem incumbent at 60%+ with near universal name recognition who had a mountain of allies, a sprawling warchest, and the entire Dem machine behind her plus a skewed and beholden DNC she literally bailed out with her own funds; what an absolute loser! Y'know, not unlike a certain past presidential candidate otherwise known as Biden who got utterly and totally smoked the last two times he tried running for president despite not facing nearly the same mountain of handicaps. Hell, the guy even flunked out of the VP primaries, and only by Obama's good graces and charity was he taken up in that position.

You can't call Bernie a loser without mentioning Biden in the same breath; if Bernie is a 'loser', that goes triple for him; at least.

aye, aye, aye
 
Yeah, a nobody from Vermont starting at 2-3% with no money failed to beat a Dem incumbent at 60%+ with near universal name recognition who had a mountain of allies, a sprawling warchest, and the entire Dem machine behind her plus a skewed and beholden DNC she literally bailed out with her own funds; what an absolute loser! Y'know, not unlike a certain past presidential candidate otherwise known as Biden who got utterly and totally smoked the last two times he tried running for president despite not facing nearly the same mountain of handicaps. Hell, the guy even flunked out of the VP primaries, and only by Obama's good graces and charity was he taken up in that position.

You can't call Bernie a loser without mentioning Biden in the same breath; if Bernie is a 'loser', that goes triple for him; at least.


It is astounding that Bernie was able to come out of nowhere and make Hillary sweat.

Hillary with all her name recognition, all her money and all those superdelegates promising her their vote before any regular American had a chance to have a say -- and Bernie turned the primaries into an actual competition.

That's how bad Hillary was. And how blind Democrats were to not accept what was staring them in the face when someone like Bernie could make Hillary have to fight so hard before she was able to take the crown that the party machine had promised her.
 
It is astounding that Bernie was able to come out of nowhere and make Hillary sweat.

Hillary with all her name recognition, all her money and all those superdelegates promising her their vote before any regular American had a chance to have a say -- and Bernie turned the primaries into an actual competition.

That's how bad Hillary was. And how blind Democrats were to not accept what was staring them in the face when someone like Bernie could make Hillary have to fight so hard before she was able to take the crown that the party machine had promised her.

I don't think it was all Hillary's weakness, though yes, that accounts for a great deal.

A lot of it was indeed Sander's strength, and his message and policy, which there is objectively an appetite for. Hell, just look at the way Democrats got utterly routed well before Hillary even entered the scene in 2015-2016. They were tired of business as usual status quo neo-liberal third way Dems, and Obama's wholesale betrayal of his very progressive 2008 platform certainly expedited the decline of Democrat fortunes, depressing turn out as people looked in other directions for a way out of a system and governance that was failing them.

The slow frog boiling of the poor and middle class has gone on for far too long, and people are starting to finally take notice; the rise of someone like Sanders or AOC was preordained since at least 2007 when Washington 'moderates' were responsible for, and made possible the most dangerous financial existential crisis in American history save for perhaps the GD, and Occupy Wallstreet was the most conspicuous symptom of the pending and imminent resurgence of populism, left wing or otherwise; that wasn't just some flash in the pan oddity that went nowhere; that was the product of real, accumulated anger that had built up for decades and exploded in the slew of unjust bank bailouts and lack of prosecutions of the financial elite that had nearly wiped the country's economy.
 
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For sure, I don't doubt that the judiciary at the edges, when populated by right wing judges, hampers and erodes the progressive agenda.

However, the greatest and most direct threat to it at present, and likely for the foreseeable future, most certainly is the Congress and Senate.

While I agree that the SCOTUS truly dropped a very substantial hammer whose impact echos through time in terms of campaign finance per Buckley v Valeo in 76, the festering root of so much that is wrong with this country, that has long been settled unfortunately. Moreover, the solution to this is predicated on a Constitutional amendment per State convention or the Congress.

I think you underestimate the court's role - I gave you an example of how, but you appeared not to read it. The Court has always had something of this role - such as when the former Republican nominee for president became Chief Justice and struck down FDR's New Deal policies - but it's become very systemic since Nixon and the Federalist Society and big money grooming an army of right-wing judges Republicans put in office with rubber stamps.
 
which there is objectively an appetite for.

Funny how there is such an appetite for Bernie's ideas, but in four national polls done a month apart he lost an average of 4% support with the other candidates growing, and in state polls in a Northeastern state and a Southern state he is behind Biden by huge margins (39% to 13% and 46% to 15%).

Bernie already has universal name recognition but his support is shrinking, and in one national poll he is no longer the second placed candidate, but rather third.

Yep, great appetite, indeed.

Mark my words: in the 2020 election, Bernie will end up with fewer delegates and fewer popular votes than he had in 2016, and won't win the nomination. I'll bet my house on this.
 
Funny how there is such an appetite for Bernie's ideas, but in four national polls done a month apart he lost an average of 4% support with the other candidates growing, and in state polls in a Northeastern state and a Southern state he is behind Biden by huge margins (39% to 13% and 46% to 15%).

Bernie already has universal name recognition but his support is shrinking, and in one national poll he is no longer the second placed candidate, but rather third.

Yep, great appetite, indeed.

Mark my words: in the 2020 election, Bernie will end up with fewer delegates and fewer popular votes than he had in 2016, and won't win the nomination. I'll bet my house on this.

Uh huh.

We'll see, won't we?
 
It is astounding that Bernie was able to come out of nowhere and make Hillary sweat.

Hillary with all her name recognition, all her money and all those superdelegates promising her their vote before any regular American had a chance to have a say -- and Bernie turned the primaries into an actual competition.

That's how bad Hillary was. And how blind Democrats were to not accept what was staring them in the face when someone like Bernie could make Hillary have to fight so hard before she was able to take the crown that the party machine had promised her.

It is astounding that Bernie was able to come out of nowhere and make Hillary sweat.


Some sweat


Hilary won 34 contests to Bernie's 23

Hillary won by 55% to Bernie's 43.1%

Hillary won the popular vote by 3.6 million


(LOL)
 
Some sweat


Hilary won 34 contests to Bernie's 23

Hillary won by 55% to Bernie's 43.1%

Hillary won the popular vote by 3.6 million


(LOL)


Bernie, a near-nobody at the beginning of the race, got 43% of the primary votes in spite of Hillary's universal name-recognition and the unrelenting boom boom boom of how Hillary was more electable. A whole lot of her votes came from her supposed electability. People who liked Bernie more held their nose and voted for the woman with the self-made FBI cloud over her head, and then she lost to Donald F. Trump.

She was afraid to show her face in traditional blue country. Wouldn't even come here to Wisconsin to ask us for our vote after she lost the primary here. She gave the race to Donald Trump. Bernie wouldn't have done that.


Democrats threw 2016 away. And so far they're not making me feel all that comfortable about them not giving us an encore in 2020.
 
Uh huh.

We'll see, won't we?

Yes, we will. I'll save this link to invite you to a delicious dish of roasted crow (your dish; mine will be champagne with caviar and blinis) once Bernie drops out of the race, not without blaming everybody else but himself. According to him and to you, it will be the fault of the DNC, the fault of the establishment, the fault of Wall Street, the fault of old people, etc., etc.
 
Yes, we will. I'll save this link to invite you to a delicious dish of roasted crow (your dish; mine will be champagne with caviar and blinis) once Bernie drops out of the race, not without blaming everybody else but himself. According to him and to you, it will be the fault of the DNC, the fault of the establishment, the fault of Wall Street, the fault of old people, etc., etc.

I think I'm done talking with you; outside of the wingnut conservatives/Trumpanzees on this board there are few people more toxic.
 
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