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Bankruptcy and Suicides Rising in Rural U.S. Amid China Trade War

OscarLevant

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Thanks a lot for the dead farmers, Mr. President


Farmer says there is a rise in suicides after tariffs - CNN Video

Minnesota soybean farmer Bill Gordon could lose $65,000 because of President Trump's tariffs on China. Gordon told CNN's Erin Burnett that rural communities are already feeling the effects from the tariffs

and

Wisconsin Farmer Tells Fox News Suicides, Bankruptcy Rising in Rural U.S. Amid China Trade War

Perdue acknowledged to Newsweek that farmers have historically had higher suicide rates than the general population, but the recent added financial pressures of finding a place in a competitive global marketplace have "exacerbated" lingering mental health problems in rural America.

Aren't tariffs ( taxation, etc ) supposed to be approved by Congress? Oh, Trump said it was a national emergency.

Methinks the national emergency is Donald Trump.
 
Thanks a lot for the dead farmers, Mr. President

Aren't tariffs ( taxation, etc ) supposed to be approved by Congress? Oh, Trump said it was a national emergency.

Methinks the national emergency is Donald Trump.

Nope, no need for a national emergency:

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-76/pdf/STATUTE-76-Pg872.pdf

And a thank you for congress empowering the executive branch to impose tariffs.

One BS story from CNN about an hysterical farmer is not evidence of increased suicides. :lamo
 
Nope, no need for a national emergency:

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-76/pdf/STATUTE-76-Pg872.pdf

And a thank you for congress empowering the executive branch to impose tariffs.

One BS story from CNN about an hysterical farmer is not evidence of increased suicides. :lamo

This is not a laughing matter for every farmer I know, especially my in-laws. No days off; coming of retirement age and physically beat up; having to put up equity on their farm holdings to get loans this year; knowing they’ve lost permanent markets overseas for years to come.

My people are in to prime beef so they’re pretty well insulated. All parents work second jobs. They do their best to diversify. They are NOT a political tool. By the time government bailouts trickle-down to those farmers who really need help, there’ll be little left. My people don’t want bailouts.

Every sector of agriculture is hurting. When banks starting going down, it will be too late. Every problem we have transcends and overlaps administrations. Putting on your nonpartisan hat, when is the last time we had a smooth transition of administrations from one party to another?
 
Apparently you didn't notice there were two links provided and if you Googled it you'll find a similar story from a number of sources

Multiple sources of ignorance and stupidity don't make you correct.
 
This is not a laughing matter for every farmer I know, especially my in-laws. No days off; coming of retirement age and physically beat up; having to put up equity on their farm holdings to get loans this year; knowing they’ve lost permanent markets overseas for years to come.

My people are in to prime beef so they’re pretty well insulated. All parents work second jobs. They do their best to diversify. They are NOT a political tool. By the time government bailouts trickle-down to those farmers who really need help, there’ll be little left. My people don’t want bailouts.

Every sector of agriculture is hurting. When banks starting going down, it will be too late. Every problem we have transcends and overlaps administrations. Putting on your nonpartisan hat, when is the last time we had a smooth transition of administrations from one party to another?

For the most part, the day of the small farmer is over. The exception, boutique farmers who specialize in high quality merchandise for high end restaurant and consumer purveyors, who sell direct to their markets.

I despise both major political parties, having no respect for either. I wear no partisan hat. There has never been a truly smooth transition of government between the parties, not even when the same parties and differing visions. You may want to read Roosevelt's musing of necessary alliances and visions for the future, compare them to Truman's actions, and learn what I mean about the latter.
 
For the most part, the day of the small farmer is over. The exception, boutique farmers who specialize in high quality merchandise for high end restaurant and consumer purveyors, who sell direct to their markets.

I despise both major political parties, having no respect for either. I wear no partisan hat. There has never been a truly smooth transition of government between the parties, not even when the same parties and differing visions. You may want to read Roosevelt's musing of necessary alliances and visions for the future, compare them to Truman's actions, and learn what I mean about the latter.

I appreciate the civil tone of your post. I’m mostly just scanning DP these days, except for MLB. We’re getting pounded with heavy T-storms from the west as I type. Better than winds from the east. This has been a really bad spring for weather for farmers, as if they needed That problem.

I could relate some suicide stories from farmers, but that would be revisiting a past negative, like all the students I’ve seen go down over the past decades as a teacher, in all the ways.

Tariffs were originally one of the South’s greatest grievances against the North before the Civil War. I haven’t seen many posters, etc. speak of the South winning this Act of the Civil War, at the ballot box.

My people will always be small farmers. It’s a way of living for them, raising their kids. I look forward to seeing them starting in mid-June through fall harvest. The key for their success is diversification. Good on you for giving me the ‘specialty’ word. They’re doing that.
 
I appreciate the civil tone of your post. I’m mostly just scanning DP these days, except for MLB. We’re getting pounded with heavy T-storms from the west as I type. Better than winds from the east. This has been a really bad spring for weather for farmers, as if they needed That problem.

I could relate some suicide stories from farmers, but that would be revisiting a past negative, like all the students I’ve seen go down over the past decades as a teacher, in all the ways.

Tariffs were originally one of the South’s greatest grievances against the North before the Civil War. I haven’t seen many posters, etc. speak of the South winning this Act of the Civil War, at the ballot box.

My people will always be small farmers. It’s a way of living for them, raising their kids. I look forward to seeing them starting in mid-June through fall harvest. The key for their success is diversification. Good on you for giving me the ‘specialty’ word. They’re doing that.

Looking back, I'd rather have lived my life as a small farmer. Impractical as it would have been for me. My wife planted a large vegetable garden for our family consumption at our vacation getaway in Rhinebeck NY, a former farm. I did all the hard work and loved it, tho she was the one who planned it and had the green thumb. The perspectives about life was excellent for our kids, eating what they worked hard to grow, and suffering when animals or other aspects of nature took the bounty of their efforts. Farming is not an easy life, no one ever said it would be. But it is far more rewarding than sitting in a cubicle 8 hours a day, almost ever working day. As we age, we almost all lament the passing of the ways of life we enjoyed, regardless of the paths we took.

Suicide, so contrary to the survival instinct, is hardly a dominion of farmers. More so it appears to be the end of life for white men with guns. Something like 80% of suicides in the US are committed by white men who own guns. I offer no explanations, other than it is a phenomenon with no economic boundaries, not particular to urban or rural parameters, not limited by other ethnic or sexual memberships, and not associated with specific trades or professions.
 
Looking back, I'd rather have lived my life as a small farmer. Impractical as it would have been for me. My wife planted a large vegetable garden for our family consumption at our vacation getaway in Rhinebeck NY, a former farm. I did all the hard work and loved it, tho she was the one who planned it and had the green thumb. The perspectives about life was excellent for our kids, eating what they worked hard to grow, and suffering when animals or other aspects of nature took the bounty of their efforts. Farming is not an easy life, no one ever said it would be. But it is far more rewarding than sitting in a cubicle 8 hours a day, almost ever working day. As we age, we almost all lament the passing of the ways of life we enjoyed, regardless of the paths we took.

Suicide, so contrary to the survival instinct, is hardly a dominion of farmers. More so it appears to be the end of life for white men with guns. Something like 80% of suicides in the US are committed by white men who own guns. I offer no explanations, other than it is a phenomenon with no economic boundaries, not particular to urban or rural parameters, not limited by other ethnic or sexual memberships, and not associated with specific trades or professions.

Suicide always makes me immediately think of that brilliant kid who went off the top of a dorm at college. You jiust can't get some of them out of your head. Your discussion of guns and white men with suicide will be challenging for most.

I gave a recent report on PTSD v. Moral Injury Theory to our Sons of the American Legion. The article I was given to report on came from the VA late last year. PTSD was defined as 'fear-based', while MIT was described as 'consequence-based'. It was stated that active-duty Military along with Veterans could have both. Do you think 'civilians' could have their version of PTSD and/or MIT?

I haven't found any medical or school personnel that have even heard of MIT. And, the longer I expose myself to MIT, the more it makes me aware of triggers in my present life, especially revisiting negative experiences in the past. Too much of this thinking can also harm one. Civilian personnel are much more resistant to the topic of 'Civilian PTSD and MIT' than the Sons are.

Farmers have a rich history of serving their Nation. I could go on about my in-laws serving. My Dad was a lifer and his life started dirt-poor on the farm. Politically, it's all about what people listen to, if they listen. I only read the rolling by-lines these days.

I continue to believe that certain prisoners and the mentally hurting need to work on farms. Helping others helps the mind. Physical work regenerates the mind. I've just started looking at 'Helmets to Hardhats', which I learned from a Son of the AL.

Another Son mentioned that a Vet wouldn't talk at first, on a physical job. After working for a while, and developing trust with this Son, he opened up. At this point, one just listens with positive body language.
 
Multiple sources of ignorance and stupidity don't make you correct.

And multiple instances of willful ignorance doesn't make you right. It's almost funny how people will believe hillary was running a sex slave operation out of a pizza parlor but won't believe multiple sources saying the same thing, like flynn was working with the russians. That's hogwash according to the right.
 
Suicide always makes me immediately think of that brilliant kid who went off the top of a dorm at college. You jiust can't get some of them out of your head. Your discussion of guns and white men with suicide will be challenging for most.

Challenging or not, it is reality.

My father was also a lifer, enlisting during 1933 at age 14, lying about his age, to send home money to help feed the family of 18 siblings. He lost two of his brothers during WWII, another in Korea. He served in combat during both wars. Came home a mess, yet built his life and family. He lost my two older brothers in SE Asia, and that finished him. He was alive when I came home a mess from SE Asia, a bare fraction of what he once was, but still capable of enjoying the grandchildren he lived for.

I'm far from a specialist understanding the state of mind for returning vets. When I arrived home I was told I would never walk again. 18 months later I passed the physical for the NYPD. I am not a superman, merely a man who refuses to be held back by anything. Not always successful, but plodding on. Family, good friends, music and poetry helped me immensely.

We are each effected by multiple traumas in this life. Everyone has their own horror stories. Some rise, some fall. I never accepted excuses for myself, neither did my parents, grandparents and most other extended family. However, having the support of an extremely large extended family can be crucial. I don't hold with theories of MIT. I see morals as a convenience, when inconvenient readily cast aside. Some men can kill with impunity, others are horrified with guilt. Others make do as necessary, and survive as best they can, live their lives. It is certainly not an all or nothing situation. Some suffer guilt for surviving when others did not, some suffer guilt for the horrors they committed, intensity varies and often diminishes with time, some are not bothered at all. Suffice it to say, from my point of view, one has a job to do and does it to the best of his or her ability, consequences be damned. Harsh as perceived by some, but pragmatic. Life goes on whatever. Life is a gift to be lived to its fullest, not wasted by moping. Everyone's definition of morals differ, and living by one's choices often includes lying to oneself that only stops with self respect. At times we all do what is expedient. One must be honest with oneself about that expediency and the underlying reasons. Live with the decisions, or not, it is the individual's choice, even in the face of the worst adversity when all seems beyond self control. No excuses.

I'm 70. I am recovering from a relatively recent series of heart issues that culminated with the benefit of a new, more powerful, pacemaker/defrib device implant. During the various therapies I kept telling the doctors and nurses nothing they did would prevent my death. I told them a toilet seat would fall from the sky, hitting me in the head. They couldn't believe I was joking in the face of death. Not the fear they usually experience from patients. They'd enter my room with stern faces, to find me listening to music, reading or listening to poetry with family and friends if they were visiting, and left with smiles on their faces most of the time. While in pain I flirted with the nurses, women technicians and women doctors, whether my wife was present or not and she knew I would recover. I'll never be as strong or as vigorous as I was a mere six months ago, but I refuse to not enjoy my life, my wife, my children, grandchildren, friends and neighbors, not to mention my very huge, stupid, cowardly dog, and our midget cat who dominates and tortures him. One chooses whether or not to enjoy the beauty this life offers, or wallow in the self loathing pits of the ugly.
 
And multiple instances of willful ignorance doesn't make you right. It's almost funny how people will believe hillary was running a sex slave operation out of a pizza parlor but won't believe multiple sources saying the same thing, like flynn was working with the russians. That's hogwash according to the right.

What does that nonsense have to do with me? I don't care about either of them. Neither are worth a minute of my thought unless I am desperate for laughs. Giving a damn about such low hanging fruit is so worthless.

It is far more fun watching my 5 year old twin grandsons sitting at piano with my wife teaching them the notes. Far more important to enjoy the giggles brought by a sour note. As much fun as playing ball with them outside for a couple of hours.
 
Nope, no need for a national emergency:

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/STATUTE-76/pdf/STATUTE-76-Pg872.pdf

And a thank you for congress empowering the executive branch to impose tariffs.

One BS story from CNN about an hysterical farmer is not evidence of increased suicides. :lamo


I was under the impression that that law was passed to allow a prez in circumstances of "national security".

Perhaps Wiki got it wrong. I dunno.

Trade Expansion Act - Wikipedia
Section 232 of the Act under certain circumstances allows the President to impose tariffs based on a recommendation from the U.S. Secretary of Commerce if "an article is being imported into the United States in such quantities or under such circumstances as to threaten or impair the national security."[1] This section has rarely been used,[1] It was used in 1979 and 1982. It had not been invoked since the creation of the World Trade Organization in 1995,[2] until it was invoked by President Trump on March 8, 2018, to impose tariffs on steel and aluminum.


Looks like Trump looking for any avenue he can play dictator, he grabs it, and tests congress to see if he can get away with it.

He's a real snake in the grass.
 
What does that nonsense have to do with me? I don't care about either of them. Neither are worth a minute of my thought unless I am desperate for laughs. Giving a damn about such low hanging fruit is so worthless.

It is far more fun watching my 5 year old twin grandsons sitting at piano with my wife teaching them the notes. Far more important to enjoy the giggles brought by a sour note. As much fun as playing ball with them outside for a couple of hours.


Oh for lawd's sakes. Listen to you., This is a "debate politics" forum, not Dr. Phil's couch.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/gene...-s-amid-china-trade-war-2.html#post1070101376

And by the way, one thing I learned years ago, was to never spill my guts on the internet.

That's just dumb.
 
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I was under the impression that that law was passed to allow a prez in circumstances of "national security".

Perhaps Wiki got it wrong. I dunno.

Trade Expansion Act - Wikipedia



Looks like Trump looking for any avenue he can play dictator, he grabs it, and tests congress to see if he can get away with it.

He's a real snake in the grass.

Yeah, one day pursuant to our laws he lowers taxes, another day, pursuant to our laws, he levies taxes. Such a snake like thing to do. Now if only dumbass dems and liberals can make up their minds, lower taxes, higher taxes, he can please their silly asinine whining.
 
Oh for lawd's sakes. Listen to you., This is a "debate politics" forum, not touchy feely hour.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/gene...-s-amid-china-trade-war-2.html#post1070101376

And by the way, one thing I learned years ago, was to never spill my guts on the internet.

That's just dumb.

Aw poor you. Still falling for a BS suicide story. And yet when confronted with a touch of humanity, overwhelmed. Argentina cries for you Oscar. So does Madonna. Whine, whine, whine. :lamo
 
Aw poor you. Still falling for a BS suicide story. And yet when confronted with a touch of humanity, overwhelmed. Argentina cries for you Oscar. So does Madonna. Whine, whine, whine. :lamo


Calling legit criticism "whining" is not a refutation. It's an incompetent response.

Spilling your guts in a foolish attempt to puff yourself up does not improve your argument.

"Touch of humanity"? Give me break. No one gives a **** here about your personal life. This is "debate politics", not the Dr. Laura show.

Either you are a fool, or a phony, or both.
 
I'm always amused when liberals are suddenly "concerned" because they see political advantage. They don't seen concerned about the opioid crisis because stopping the flow of illegal opioids entails sealing up the border and that means agreeing with Trump.
 
Calling legit criticism "whining" is not a refutation. It's an incompetent response.

Spilling your guts in a foolish attempt to puff yourself up does not improve your argument.

"Touch of humanity"? Give me break. No one gives a **** here about your personal life. This is "debate politics", not the Dr. Laura show.

Either you are a fool, or a phony, or both.

You have nothing to offer other than your desperation, whining and fears of life.
 
You have nothing to offer other than your desperation, whining and fears of life.


That's not a competent counter argument, OldFatGuy.

If you got anything that supports a political argument, feel free to do it.

You might want to start on actually refuting the premise of the OP.

I don't think you have. In fact, I followed this thread all the way back to your first reply.

You haven't actually refuted the OP, despite what you may think to the contrary.

You have, however, responded with a number of non-refutations, that were designed to either distract, belittle, or bait me, personally, in some way.

and then, you start with the "I'm just a blah blah and I love my kids/nephew/family yadda yadda" as if this is the forum for personal goo.

And the really sad part is you actually believe it improves your argument.

No, but what all these de facto attempts to puff yourself up actually do is reveal that you could possibly have a serious self-esteem problem. But I'm no psych, just sayin'.

In the mean time work on giving a competent response. Perhaps someone might take you more seriously.
 
That's not a competent counter argument, OldFatGuy.

If you got anything that supports a political argument, feel free to do it.

You might want to start on actually refuting the premise of the OP.

I don't think you have. In fact, I followed this thread all the way back to your first reply.

You haven't actually refuted the OP, despite what you may think to the contrary.

You have, however, responded with a number of non-refutations, that were designed to either distract, belittle, or bait me, personally, in some way.

and then, you start with the "I'm just a blah blah and I love my kids/nephew/family yadda yadda" as if this is the forum for personal goo.

And the really sad part is you actually believe it improves your argument.

No, but what all these de facto attempts to puff yourself up actually do is reveal that you could possibly have a serious self-esteem problem. But I'm no psych, just sayin'.

In the mean time work on giving a competent response. Perhaps someone might take you more seriously.

First, I would need take your never ending whining seriously. Even with this missive, whine, whine, whine.
 
P
Thanks a lot for the dead farmers, Mr. President




Aren't tariffs ( taxation, etc ) supposed to be approved by Congress? Oh, Trump said it was a national emergency.

Methinks the national emergency is Donald Trump.

This is really not relevant to whether or not it’s a good idea. I persoanlly am anti tariff.

But I am sure some suicides have increased over economic moves (like outsourcing) that are free market oriented and and net positive overall.

Good thing they didn’t give up on the horseless carriage becasue there was an uptick in blacksmith suicides.
 
P

[...]

Good thing they didn’t give up on the horseless carriage because there was an uptick in blacksmith suicides.

So, you are equating the automobile with tariffs? That makes no sense.

We can give up tariffs without impeding progress.
 
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