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What does it mean to be a “American”?

Unitedwestand13 said:
This is more of a open ended question.

What does it mean to be “American”?

What is the source of our identity and what does it mean to be American?
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Going off of our founders, it means to be a good landed Anglo-Saxon male. MAGA!
 
ttwtt78640 said:
OK, but if you expect a different answer from each respondent then it is a meaningless poll. Having US citizenship is my "poll" choice.
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That's really the number one response. If you are a natural born or naturalized American citizen in good standing, you are an America. Period.

The philosophical description of a REAL American is much more complicated. :)
 
Rexedgar said:
Many folks talk about the founders; they had no idea what the future would hold; the language is open to entirely too much interpretation. The SCOTUS should never be a political body, imo.

Is POTUS an “American” by your definition?
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Yow, that's a tough one. I certainly respect the office, even if I don't respect the individual. And he was placed in office through Constitutional process. So I suppose I must say 'yes'. Trump is an American phenomenon. I'd like to think my fellow voters really screwed-up here. But I am proud that we have a process where a guy like him can come from nowhere, with no political experience or political capital, and become our President. That would seem to be an America phenomenon, by definition. And it also would be very American if we throw has ass right out, and call it a failed experiment!
 
Being American is about the eternal reconciling of dual legacies, the first being white supremacy, and the second being our founding principles of equality, liberty and the pursuit of hapoiness.
 
Rexedgar said:
Many folks talk about the founders; they had no idea what the future would hold; the language is open to entirely too much interpretation. The SCOTUS should never be a political body, imo.

Is POTUS an “American” by your definition?
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He reminds us of our founders looking back on the Greeks and determining that there must be a way to protect democracy against demagogues. Ironically, the electoral college was one tool that they thought would protect against that.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
The question I am asking is related to national identity. Are we a country defined by civic nationalism, or one defined by racial nationalism.


It is a question explored in Gary Gerstle’s American Crucible: Race and Nation in the Twentieth Century
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Obviously not racial nationalism, except in part of Trump’s brain. But there is a certain commitment to fairness, openness to immigrants, and idealism about our democracy. The last item has gotten us, or rather other countries, into big trouble when we get our arrogance on, combined with our (in)famous disinterest in learning about other countries.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
This is more of a open ended question.

What does it mean to be “American”?

What is the source of our identity and what does it mean to be American?
Click to expand...

Let's ask Teddy...

“In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American … There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag … We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language … and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Now we may disagree on the language thing, but once you commit to become part of America you are an American.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
OK, but if you expect a different answer from each respondent then it is a meaningless poll. Having US citizenship is my "poll" choice.
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Yup. An American is an American is an American. Illegals aren't Americans just because they snuck across the border. About the only argument one could possibly make is that anyone who are citizens of any country in the Americas are technically American. But, I think the poll question was meant to be about the US and that is usually what people are talking about when they use the word American.
 
Being legal.
 
Fledermaus said:
Let's ask Teddy...

“In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American … There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag … We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language … and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Now we may disagree on the language thing, but once you commit to become part of America you are an American.
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I lean toward agreeing with Teddy but not quite to that extreme.
I'll give most folks "an A for effort" if they make a half decent try at assimilation.
I do support the idea of requiring some basic grasp of English, but not out of any nationalistic loyalty, but out of practicality.
Come join the party, welcome to your new home, but we must be able to understand each other, at least on a faltering and sometimes stumbling level. I don't mind that folks speak their native tongue, but I do believe learning the dominant language is one of the most important parts of getting along here.

And I am not offended at people who refer to themselves in the hyphenate sense, it's just that I do like to see that they're proud of their new home and I am encouraged when I see them make the effort to learn about us.
Loyalty to the United States is key. If you're here to stay, show some loyalty.
It doesn't go unnoticed or unappreciated.

I think that demonstrating a willingness to assimilate and mainstream should be a key part of the immigration process for any prospective new arrival. That's what most other countries expect from everyone else, even ones that celebrate diversity.
Canada takes pride in welcoming people from almost anywhere, but you'll notice...these people DO call themselves "Canadians".

I think that's a proper thing for a proper immigrant to do.

"Once you commit to become part of America", you must make the effort to become an American.
 
Moderate Right said:
Yup. An American is an American is an American. Illegals aren't Americans just because they snuck across the border. About the only argument one could possibly make is that anyone who are citizens of any country in the Americas are technically American. But, I think the poll question was meant to be about the US and that is usually what people are talking about when they use the word American.
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I think that nonsense about "the Americas" is just that.
No other country on either continent CALLS ITSELF "America", only the United States OF America" does that.
There is no Brazil America, or Argentina America, or Chilamerica, or Guatamerica, or Honduramerica, or Meximerica.
And there is no country called "North America" either.

So, let's stop the games. "America" MEANS "the United States of America" and everyone knows it does, unless they're being facetious or obtuse, or intentionally vague.

So no...anyone who are citizens of any country in the Americas are NOT "technically American". They're technically whatever country they came from, unless and until they make their home IN the United States of America, preferably by legal means.

Of course, if the latter is the preferred course of action, that means that WE had better make a serious commitment to untangling the sad morass that makes up our own legal immigration process, which if you don't know, is a pretty sad joke unless you are very very wealthy.

Fixing the actual process of coming here legally and giving attention to a more egalitarian and humanitarian process would go a long way toward resolving some of our current problems. We can't welcome or save everyone, but we can make the process more humane for ordinary people.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I lean toward agreeing with Teddy but not quite to that extreme.
I'll give most folks "an A for effort" if they make a half decent try at assimilation.
I do support the idea of requiring some basic grasp of English, but not out of any nationalistic loyalty, but out of practicality.
Come join the party, welcome to your new home, but we must be able to understand each other, at least on a faltering and sometimes stumbling level. I don't mind that folks speak their native tongue, but I do believe learning the dominant language is one of the most important parts of getting along here.

And I am not offended at people who refer to themselves in the hyphenate sense, it's just that I do like to see that they're proud of their new home and I am encouraged when I see them make the effort to learn about us.
Loyalty to the United States is key. If you're here to stay, show some loyalty.
It doesn't go unnoticed or unappreciated.

I think that demonstrating a willingness to assimilate and mainstream should be a key part of the immigration process for any prospective new arrival. That's what most other countries expect from everyone else, even ones that celebrate diversity.
Canada takes pride in welcoming people from almost anywhere, but you'll notice...these people DO call themselves "Canadians".

I think that's a proper thing for a proper immigrant to do.

"Once you commit to become part of America", you must make the effort to become an American.
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Well said.
 
To me, being an "American" means living in a country where everything is directly or indirectly affected by the elephant in the room, viz., the ethnicity issue.

The elephant in the room affects the daily decisions of every "American," whether s/he knows it or acknowledges it or not.

Being an "American" is truly a unique experience.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
This is more of a open ended question.

What does it mean to be “American”?

What is the source of our identity and what does it mean to be American?
Click to expand...

Excellent question. You're going to get watered-down answers, since today's concept of "American" is simply a hodgepodge of different cultures living separately in the same country. America is a "United Nations" type of place where no one has a common culture.

If you had asked "What does it mean to be Kenyan" or "What does it mean to be Sioux", then you'd get a lot of answers about specific common cultural traits that those people share. The "UN" concept exists only in America. Other countries are entitled to their own cultural identity, not America.
 
TheParser said:
To me, being an "American" means living in a country where everything is directly or indirectly affected by the elephant in the room, viz., the ethnicity issue.

The elephant in the room affects the daily decisions of every "American," whether s/he knows it or acknowledges it or not.

Being an "American" is truly a unique experience.
Click to expand...

I agree. It's politically expedient to draw dividing lines between ethnicities, and to lower or raise expectations and behavioral standards based on them. Anecdotal, but my wife, acting as a supervisor, had to talk to a black secretary about her rudeness in emails, and that there were complaints from staff. Blacks make up a very small portion of her workplace.

I was horrified. My wife disciplined a black woman without first consulting the "Diversity Office" (yes, there is one), or at least Human Resources? I told her there are professionals who are trained to deal with the 'sensitivities' of diversity, and one wrong move by her dealing with a "diverse" employee could get her fired. I can't risk my family's well being on the count that my wife didn't follow exact racial protocols.

In the future, I told her that anything you want to say to that black woman, you go to the Diversity Office first. Whites simply aren't qualified to speak directly with blacks.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
I think that nonsense about "the Americas" is just that.
No other country on either continent CALLS ITSELF "America", only the United States OF America" does that.
There is no Brazil America, or Argentina America, or Chilamerica, or Guatamerica, or Honduramerica, or Meximerica.
And there is no country called "North America" either.

So, let's stop the games. "America" MEANS "the United States of America" and everyone knows it does, unless they're being facetious or obtuse, or intentionally vague.

So no...anyone who are citizens of any country in the Americas are NOT "technically American". They're technically whatever country they came from, unless and until they make their home IN the United States of America, preferably by legal means.

Of course, if the latter is the preferred course of action, that means that WE had better make a serious commitment to untangling the sad morass that makes up our own legal immigration process, which if you don't know, is a pretty sad joke unless you are very very wealthy.

Fixing the actual process of coming here legally and giving attention to a more egalitarian and humanitarian process would go a long way toward resolving some of our current problems. We can't welcome or save everyone, but we can make the process more humane for ordinary people.
Click to expand...

What we need to do is make the legal process better and completely stop illegal immigration. That's the trouble with Democrats. They only want to focus on one aspect that doesn't stop the problem.
 
Moderate Right said:
What we need to do is make the legal process better and completely stop illegal immigration. That's the trouble with Democrats. They only want to focus on one aspect that doesn't stop the problem.
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Oh...it's our fault now, and if we'd just cooperate, you could "completely stop illegal immigration."
Is that kind of like "completely stopping abortions" or "completely eliminating guns" or "completely stopping all drugs" or "completely outlawing pornography" or "completely banning alcohol"?

We're barely able to keep a lid on DRUNK DRIVING. And at least we're approaching THAT subject in somewhat the right way.

By the way, until you stop lumping refugees seeking asylum and illegal aliens into the same category, nothing you say has any credibility, and that includes foul excuses like pretending that ALL asylum seekers are faking it.

We can't save everybody, but we can and should save those whom we can process adequately.
Even if the Republicans just threw up their hands and said something like, "Okay here's the deal, we allow EXACTLY a hundred thousand asylum seekers to be processed every ninety days, NO MORE", that could be a starting point for negotiations.

That doesn't mean all asylum seekers get allowed to stay, just processed.
But no, not only are Republicans unwilling to set a figure, Stephen Miller has now convinced Trump to find ways to deport LEGAL immigrants who have Green Cards, over the equivalent of something like a speeding ticket or less.

Stop acting like Trump wants to fix immigration, it's a lie, and if you believe it, "you been took".
And I just finished making what I thought was a fairly reasonable stand on the matter, but you still knee jerk with your broad brush allegations about Democrats anyway. There is just no reasoning with you while you sit in your bubble, because you don't see anything or hear anything except what Trump tells you.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Oh...it's our fault now, and if we'd just cooperate, you could "completely stop illegal immigration."
Is that kind of like "completely stopping abortions" or "completely eliminating guns" or "completely stopping all drugs" or "completely outlawing pornography" or "completely banning alcohol"?

We're barely able to keep a lid on DRUNK DRIVING. And at least we're approaching THAT subject in somewhat the right way.

By the way, until you stop lumping refugees seeking asylum and illegal aliens into the same category, nothing you say has any credibility, and that includes foul excuses like pretending that ALL asylum seekers are faking it.

We can't save everybody, but we can and should save those whom we can process adequately.
Even if the Republicans just threw up their hands and said something like, "Okay here's the deal, we allow EXACTLY a hundred thousand asylum seekers to be processed every ninety days, NO MORE", that could be a starting point for negotiations.

That doesn't mean all asylum seekers get allowed to stay, just processed.
But no, not only are Republicans unwilling to set a figure, Stephen Miller has now convinced Trump to find ways to deport LEGAL immigrants who have Green Cards, over the equivalent of something like a speeding ticket or less.

Stop acting like Trump wants to fix immigration, it's a lie, and if you believe it, "you been took".
And I just finished making what I thought was a fairly reasonable stand on the matter, but you still knee jerk with your broad brush allegations about Democrats anyway. There is just no reasoning with you while you sit in your bubble, because you don't see anything or hear anything except what Trump tells you.
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Democrats have refused to discuss in any way stopping illegal immigration. That's why Republicans won't work with them on DACA and legal immigration. We're not going to leave the Swiss cheese border as is and do DACA after DACA after DACA after DACA into infinity on beyond. If you want to talk about DACA and legal immigration then we have to have a plan to stop illegal immigration.
 
Moderate Right said:
Democrats have refused to discuss in any way stopping illegal immigration. That's why Republicans won't work with them on DACA and legal immigration. We're not going to leave the Swiss cheese border as is and do DACA after DACA after DACA after DACA into infinity on beyond. If you want to talk about DACA and legal immigration then we have to have a plan to stop illegal immigration.
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Yeah you know that's not true. We've refused to bow to the tactics Trump has tried to use. But we're open to bipartisan ideas.
You just don't like the fact that Trump hasn't been able to bully his way around the House majority, that's all.
It started the minute the new Congress was sworn in.

When Trump wants to start behaving like an adult, I'm sure that it will be possible to come up with some ideas.
And stop misusing DACA as a blanket excuse, like you don't even understand what it is.
DACA is clearly defined, with clear start and end dates for qualification.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Yeah you know that's not true. We've refused to bow to the tactics Trump has tried to use. But we're open to bipartisan ideas.
You just don't like the fact that Trump hasn't been able to bully his way around the House majority, that's all.
It started the minute the new Congress was sworn in.

When Trump wants to start behaving like an adult, I'm sure that it will be possible to come up with some ideas.
And stop misusing DACA as a blanket excuse, like you don't even understand what it is.
DACA is clearly defined, with clear start and end dates for qualification.
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It is true. Name one thing Democrats are willing to do that actually stops an illegal from getting across the border in the first place. Once these people have crossed over we've already lost the game. They have to be stopped from crossing the border. Democrats have open arms policies.
 
The wonderful thing is that it means whatever each and every citizen thinks it is. We have no dominant culture. We have been described as a society not a culture. Think about how that is so very critical to our union. It means that a citizen in Alabama can be whomever they choose without having to conform to what a citizen in Alaska believes in. The only thing that binds us is a willingness to abide by our laws and institutions. We all consent to be governed by the US constitution. Once that belief system is discarded, we no longer share anything at all as a group.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
This is more of a open ended question.

What does it mean to be “American”?

What is the source of our identity and what does it mean to be American?
Click to expand...

"What does it mean to be an American" is an objectively answerable question: one has US citizenship status; therefore one is an American.

"What is the source of [Americans'] identity" is not so succinctly, objectively and comprehensively answered; the answer to that is the stuff of treatises, books and papers. Frankly, I'm not willing to "go down that road" here. I'll direct you to a few writer's takes on parts of the matter:
Perusing the above documents, one sees, if nothing else, that the nature of an entire nation's identity has political, sociological and psychological dimensions. That multifariousness, despite the question itself being a fine one to ask, a fine rubric question, is simply more stuff than I care to here discuss.
 
Moderate Right said:
It is true. Name one thing Democrats are willing to do that actually stops an illegal from getting across the border in the first place. Once these people have crossed over we've already lost the game. They have to be stopped from crossing the border. Democrats have open arms policies.
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The more you keep repeating that "open borders" falsehood, the harder it gets to have a rational convo with you.
You know that's bullcrap but you're only interested in poking the bear at this point.

Name one thing? A lot of Dems are interested in revising policies so that immigration gets a better hand in intercepting aliens with a criminal record. That whole hands off policy was a vast overreach.

Name another thing? The many attempted compromises that received full and even sometimes UNANIMOUS bipartisan support right up to the moment when Trump reversed himself and decided he'd rather shut down the government for a month.
Again, most of that stuff had a lot or even UNANIMOUS bipartisan support and was headed to the President's desk until Hannity and Laura Ingraham diverted his attention and set off his tantrum.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
The more you keep repeating that "open borders" falsehood, the harder it gets to have a rational convo with you.
You know that's bullcrap but you're only interested in poking the bear at this point.

Name one thing? A lot of Dems are interested in revising policies so that immigration gets a better hand in intercepting aliens with a criminal record. That whole hands off policy was a vast overreach.

Name another thing? The many attempted compromises that received full and even sometimes UNANIMOUS bipartisan support right up to the moment when Trump reversed himself and decided he'd rather shut down the government for a month.
Again, most of that stuff had a lot or even UNANIMOUS bipartisan support and was headed to the President's desk until Hannity and Laura Ingraham diverted his attention and set off his tantrum.
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None of your responses have a damn thing to do with stopping illegals from coming into the country in the first place. Care to try again? Name at least one thing that actually stops an illegal from crossing foot into our country.
 
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