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Why We Need a Wealth Tax

RedAkston said:
If something that one owns is taken from them against their will isn't theft in your dictionary, you need to get a new dictionary.
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You missed an important word in your dictionary definition

Something that is taken from someone against his or her will ILLEGALLY is theft.

Children removed from abusive households against the will of the parents isn’t theft.
Felons who lose their freedom of movement against their will isn’t theft.
Frequent offenders of moving violations losing their drivers license against their will isn’t theft.
Levying lawful taxes isn’t theft.
 
Juggernaut74 said:
You missed an important word in your dictionary definition

Something that is taken from someone against his or her will ILLEGALLY is theft.

Children removed from abusive households against the will of the parents isn’t theft.
Felons who lose their freedom of movement against their will isn’t theft.
Frequent offenders of moving violations losing their drivers license against their will isn’t theft.
Levying lawful taxes isn’t theft.
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Children aren't property. Freedom of movement isn't property. The right to legally operate a motor vehicle isn't property. And in each of your examples, laws were broken as they are a danger to others. Someone keeping the money that they earned, which is property, isn't a danger to anyone.

You're not going to convince me that forced taxation at the hands of the government isn't theft because it absolutely is. Your failure to see that isn't my problem, it's quite clearly yours.
 
RedAkston said:
Children aren't property. Freedom of movement isn't property. The right to legally operate a motor vehicle isn't property. And in each of your examples, laws were broken as they are a danger to others. Someone keeping the money that they earned, which is property, isn't a danger to anyone.

You're not going to convince me that forced taxation at the hands of the government isn't theft because it absolutely is. Your failure to see that isn't my problem, it's quite clearly yours.
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IMHO, taxation in return for services rendered is just. Roads, fire protection, cops, national defense, etc. are a legitimate taxable items.
 
RedAkston said:
Children aren't property. Freedom of movement isn't property. The right to legally operate a motor vehicle isn't property. And in each of your examples, laws were broken as they are a danger to others. Someone keeping the money that they earned, which is property, isn't a danger to anyone.

You're not going to convince me that forced taxation at the hands of the government isn't theft because it absolutely is. Your failure to see that isn't my problem, it's quite clearly yours.
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Well...I wish you luck with that argument in Tax Court, which will be your problem, not mine. :)
 
OldFatGuy said:
Where do you come up with this ridiculous BS? Nothing I've said indicates I support Trump. And even if I did, it would have nothing to do with your claim of stealing wealth for redistribution as the right path.
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No one is asserting that the redistribution should equal everyone makes the same amount and that's an absurd position if you believe that. However efforts to close the gap between the ever-widening rich and poor are ethical and just.
 
Moderate Right said:
European countries who started a wealth tax realized it did not work, with almost all of them getting rid of their wealth tax.
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I'd appreciate if you provided a link the something that supports this
 
Bullseye said:
Mostly because property taxes have utility - they pay for infrastructure, fire, and police protection, schools, and transportation.
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And a wealth tax doesn't? Income tax doesn't? Sales tax doesn't?
 
OldFatGuy said:
When the contract for building those roads goes to a relative or sycophant of the politician who arranged the building of those roads, yes, especially when the road use does not warrant the construction.

A silly game you play. I, and others who reject a wealth tax, understand the purposed of taxation and have no argument with income taxes, gains taxes, sales taxes and so on. I am thankful for the income that allows me to pay those taxes. But this wealth tax concept is nothing more than a lie, a deceit for wealth redistribution. And yes, I do oppose wealth redistribution as dictatorial abuse with or without the drapery of revolution. I trust no politician not to lie and steal, line their own pockets, and I certainly don't trust a wealthy socialist desirous of power and more wealth, to tell me I must surrender what I have gained with the sweat of my brow. Liars all. Thieves all. Horse Manure.

Should anything like this become law, before it happens, I will convey all I have that I can't take with me, gather my family and move to a safe haven in the face of this insanity. And don't think I, and others like me, aren't well aware of welcoming safe havens. Wealth will flee this nation and leave it bankrupt. Mick Jagger hasn't been a British citizen for decades, because of excessive taxation. Think about that.
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Is a sales tax wealth redistribution? Income tax? Capital gains tax?

What's the actual characteristic that makes one tax theft and another tax not theft? Why can't even one single conservative define this for me?
 
Bullseye said:
IMHO, taxation in return for services rendered is just. Roads, fire protection, cops, national defense, etc. are a legitimate taxable items.
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Property taxes typically cover police and fire. State taxes, be it income or sales, typically cover roads (we have toll roads here in FL to help with roads since we don't have a state income tax). National defense is covered by federal income tax, along with billions of wasted dollars that the government so frivolously throws away. While I have a problem with federal income tax, I have a serious problem with the proposed "wealth tax". The money was already taxed when it was earned and due to the wealth redistributionists, they want to take even more of the money that was already taxed. Sorry, but I'm not buying that lump of coal.
 
RedAkston said:
I've made that crystal clear but I'll restate it in a way that maybe, just maybe you'll understand.

Any tax that is not voluntary is theft.
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Hey, genius, this is the exact dumb **** I dismissed earlier. I'm not interested in discussing the ridiculous notion that any tax is theft if it's not "voluntary."

Now take your personal attacks elsewhere, moderator.
 
Deuce said:
Is a sales tax wealth redistribution? Income tax? Capital gains tax?

What's the actual characteristic that makes one tax theft and another tax not theft? Why can't even one single conservative define this for me?
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I asked him basically the same question noting that taxes are all the same why is one okay and not another he dodged the question and was rude or something
 
RedAkston said:
This is without a doubt one of the of the dumbest things I've ever read here at DP. No ones are being restricted or taken away because someone else gets to keep what they've earned. What contempt do I have for anyone's actual rights, not some pie in the sky idea of what you think rights should be, by pointing out that most taxes.are theft?

This should be both entertaining and comical.
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No, the dumbest thing ever seen on DP is claiming that taxes are theft just because you personally disagree with them. I have an idea: let's eliminate all taxes and just run the country on donations. See how that works out.
 
Juggernaut74 said:
Well...I wish you luck with that argument in Tax Court, which will be your problem, not mine. :)
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Where did I say that I didn't pay my taxes? Oh that's right, I didn't. I suppose you could make a viable argument at some point, but it has yet to be done.
 
Deuce said:
Hey, genius, this is the exact dumb **** I dismissed earlier. I'm not interested in discussing the ridiculous notion that any tax is theft if it's not "voluntary."

Now take your personal attacks elsewhere, moderator.
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You dismissed it because it shot a hole in your argument big enough to fit the Milky Way Galaxy inside.

And I haven't launched a single personal attack at all, fellow poster.
 
Deuce said:
No, the dumbest thing ever seen on DP is claiming that taxes are theft just because you personally disagree with them. I have an idea: let's eliminate all taxes and just run the country on donations. See how that works out.
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Taxes are theft because one could face imprisonment or confiscation of additional personal property for failure to pay. It doesn't matter if you or I agree or disagree as to whether some taxes are theft or not because they absolutely are, sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
 
RedAkston said:
Property taxes typically cover police and fire. State taxes, be it income or sales, typically cover roads (we have toll roads here in FL to help with roads since we don't have a state income tax). National defense is covered by federal income tax, along with billions of wasted dollars that the government so frivolously throws away. While I have a problem with federal income tax, I have a serious problem with the proposed "wealth tax". The money was already taxed when it was earned and due to the wealth redistributionists, they want to take even more of the money that was already taxed. Sorry, but I'm not buying that lump of coal.
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Don't misunderstand me, I am dead set against a wealth tax, but, I don't mind paying for the services you've listed above. Frivolous spending on any level needs to be curtailed, I also agree.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Except no one paid that 90%. Write offs were far more liberal, and actual collections rarely topped 25% of gross income for anyone. There was no glory in a system that overestimated potential collection of revenues, but actualized far less. It was all a lie.
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Rationalize it any way you need to sir. Those were the numbers, and the middle class thrived.
 
Deuce said:
And a wealth tax doesn't? Income tax doesn't? Sales tax doesn't?
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No, a wealth tax is pure class warfare jealousy/envy. Income taxes pay for federal services and sales tax pay for state/local services. All the far left "think of all the wonderful things we can do by robbing the rich" mantras are bull****.
 
Bullseye said:
Don't misunderstand me, I am dead set against a wealth tax, but, I don't mind paying for the services you've listed above. Frivolous spending on any level needs to be curtailed, I also agree.
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I don't have a problem with property taxes or sales tax. In fact, as I stated previously in this thread, I'm all for a flat tax on when one spends their money. I have a serious problem with a so-called "wealth tax" as it's a money redistribution grab on money that has already been taxed.
 
OscarLevant said:
No one is asserting that the redistribution should equal everyone makes the same amount and that's an absurd position if you believe that. However efforts to close the gap between the ever-widening rich and poor are ethical and just.
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There is no such thing as "ethical." This is an illiterate use of a word which means the study of morals, and which is judgment free. There is no moral justification for closing any perceived "growing" disparity of wealth. Morals are always a convenience, not written in stone. Your morals are not my morals, and you cannot impose your morals on anyone else. I do understand, this conversation is now over your head. Justice is blind, in many ways. I doubt you would recognize justice if she slapped you in the face. All you stand for is thievery.
 
RedAkston said:
You dismissed it because it shot a hole in your argument big enough to fit the Milky Way Galaxy inside.

And I haven't launched a single personal attack at all, fellow poster.
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Only a complete idiot would miss the implied insults.

I dismissed it because it's stupid. You think taxes are theft? Call the police and report the crime.
 
OldFatGuy said:
There is no such thing as "ethical." This is an illiterate use of a word which means the study of morals, and which is judgment free. There is no moral justification for closing any perceived "growing" disparity of wealth. Morals are always a convenience, not written in stone. Your morals are not my morals, and you cannot impose your morals on anyone else. I do understand, this conversation is now over your head. Justice is blind, in many ways. I doubt you would recognize justice if she slapped you in the face. All you stand for is thievery.
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*snort*
 
Deuce said:
Is a sales tax wealth redistribution? Income tax? Capital gains tax?

What's the actual characteristic that makes one tax theft and another tax not theft? Why can't even one single conservative define this for me?
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Read the thread. This has been asked and answered. I will not repeat myself, nor will I respond to a poster who obviously has no integrity, evidenced by not reading the thread, merely jumping into the conversation with an elitist sense of self superiority having not read the thread. No excuses.

Where do you get the audacity to label anyone else's political positions as conservative or liberal? Unacceptable arrogance.
 
Thoreau72 said:
Rationalize it any way you need to sir. Those were the numbers, and the middle class thrived.
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Nonsense. There is nothing to rationalize. All that matters is tax revenues collected, not percentages that were belied by deductions. Try using real numbers, the numbers of actual collection. You fail again.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Read the thread. This has been asked and answered. I will not repeat myself, nor will I respond to a poster who obviously has no integrity, evidenced by not reading the thread, merely jumping into the conversation with an elitist sense of self superiority having not read the thread. No excuses.

Where do you get the audacity to label anyone else's political positions as conservative or liberal? Unacceptable arrogance.
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I understand the objection to "wealth redistribution." That's a complaint about what taxes are spent on. Not how the tax is collected, or what kind of tax it is.

Which really means your argument is "it's theft if I don't approve of the use of the taxes," which is laughable.
 
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