Mazars accounting firm could lead to Trump's tax returns becoming public

One court case that is not getting nearly enough attention is the subpoena to Trump's accounting firm, Mazars USA.

It should be getting more because, as this author points out, it's likely that Mazars has the tax return records of Trump, along with broader financial information.

The same law that gives the W&M committee the right to request the returns of any tax payer, also requires the committee keep the information confidential, and in a closed session. But the law requiring this privacy only applies to tax returns that are from the IRS, not those from private firms, which means the Oversight committee could disclose all the information publicly if their subpoena works.

There are now three places Trump's tax returns and financial statements are being sought. The subpoena to Deutsche bank and JP Morgan, the subpoena to the IRS for his returns from the W&M committee, the subpoena to his accounting firm Mazars, and the new bill in NY that could also result in his returns becoming public.

It's just a matter of time. Trump can't play wack a mole forever, he's financial records are going to be caught in at least one of these inquires.

The Mazars USA Subpoena as an Existential Threat to President Trump - Just Security

The Mazars subpoena would encompass more information than the tax returns covered by IRC 6103, including financial statements, tax returns, and accounting work papers. Only tax returns in the possession of the IRS are subject to the vagaries of IRC 6103.

It should be noted that there is no accountant-client privilege equivalent to attorney-client privilege that could shield the secrecy of the financial documents maintained by Mazars for its client or that could provide a legal basis to delay compliance with the subpoena. The IRS does require tax preparers to obtain the client’s permission to release tax returns. However, should Mazars be in possession of 10 years worth of Trump business and personal tax returns, there is nothing in the law to prevent their ultimate disclosure to the public when Congress subpoenas them. A congressional ‘friendly’ subpoena requested by Mazars effectively shields them from the normal disclosure constraints of tax preparers.

Unlike Chairman Neal’s request for Trump tax returns from the IRS, Chairman Cummings probably expected a swift response to his subpoena to the Mazars. Trump’s legal team did file suit to prevent Mazars from immediately complying with their subpoena. Court fights are hard to prognosticate but the Trump team does not have a strong argument to interpose or delay the subpoena in a protracted court fight. As referenced above any argument asserted with reference to accountant/client privilege is weak. Congress does not recognize a binding attorney-client privilege on its proceedings, and a court opinion has upheld that view.

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MovingPictures said:

One court case that is not getting nearly enough attention is the subpoena to Trump's accounting firm, Mazars USA.

It should be getting more because, as this author points out, it's likely that Mazars has the tax return records of Trump, along with broader financial information.

The same law that gives the W&M committee the right to request the returns of any tax payer, also requires the committee keep the information confidential, and in a closed session. But the law requiring this privacy only applies to tax returns that are from the IRS, not those from private firms, which means the Oversight committee could disclose all the information publicly if their subpoena works.

There are now three places Trump's tax returns and financial statements are being sought. The subpoena to Deutsche bank and JP Morgan, the subpoena to the IRS for his returns from the W&M committee, the subpoena to his accounting firm Mazars, and the new bill in NY that could also result in his returns becoming public.

It's just a matter of time. Trump can't play wack a mole forever, he's financial records are going to be caught in at least one of these inquires.

The Mazars USA Subpoena as an Existential Threat to President Trump - Just Security

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Once again, out of HONEST curiosity; WHY is it so earth-shatteringly important that Trump's tax returns be released?

What is the purpose other than sheer nosiness?

Captain Adverse said:

Once again, out of HONEST curiosity; WHY is it so earth-shatteringly important that Trump's tax returns be released?

What is the purpose other than sheer nosiness?

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You've been told a million times, including by myself on several occasions, so I'm not going to waste my breath.

I'll believe it when we actually have his tax returns.

MovingPictures said:

You've been told a million times, including by myself on several occasions, so I'm not going to waste my breath.

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Yes, "Reasons."

Almost all Presidential candidates since the late 70's did so. That it is a "tradition" now, which is tantamount to a requirement. That he must have something to hide. That we have a "right to know."

Well traditions can be broken. There is no legal requirement to do so, and in fact such records are confidential under tax codes absent voluntary release. Only a suspicious mind would assume he was hiding something.

Finally, we have no right nor need to know any more than we have to see each other's tax records without our expressed permission.

So, once again...WHY is it now a requirement that we see his tax returns? IMO prurient nosiness combined with witch-hunting bias.

Well the solution is simple; petition Congress to change the law making ALL tax records open to the public so any neighbor can demand to see anyone else's tax returns because they "have a right to know." :roll:

MovingPictures said:

One court case that is not getting nearly enough attention is the subpoena to Trump's accounting firm, Mazars USA.

It should be getting more because, as this author points out, it's likely that Mazars has the tax return records of Trump, along with broader financial information.

The same law that gives the W&M committee the right to request the returns of any tax payer, also requires the committee keep the information confidential, and in a closed session. But the law requiring this privacy only applies to tax returns that are from the IRS, not those from private firms, which means the Oversight committee could disclose all the information publicly if their subpoena works.

There are now three places Trump's tax returns and financial statements are being sought. The subpoena to Deutsche bank and JP Morgan, the subpoena to the IRS for his returns from the W&M committee, the subpoena to his accounting firm Mazars, and the new bill in NY that could also result in his returns becoming public.

It's just a matter of time. Trump can't play wack a mole forever, he's financial records are going to be caught in at least one of these inquires.

The Mazars USA Subpoena as an Existential Threat to President Trump - Just Security

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Congress can't subpoena private documents.

OrphanSlug said:

I'll believe it when we actually have his tax returns.

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You no longer oppose weaponzing tax returns?

apdst said:

You no longer oppose weaponzing tax returns?

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And this will be weaponizing why?

Rachael Maddow already did the big reveal. Huge show big ratings.

Everybody watched ...right?

apdst said:

Congress can't subpoena private documents.

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Why would congress subpeona documents that are already public?

Captain Adverse said:

Yes, "Reasons."

Almost all Presidential candidates since the late 70's did so. That it is a "tradition" now, which is tantamount to a requirement. That he must have something to hide. That we have a "right to know."

Well traditions can be broken. There is no legal requirement to do so, and in fact such records are confidential under tax codes absent voluntary release. Only a suspicious mind would assume he was hiding something.

Finally, we have no right nor need to know any more than we have to see each other's tax records without our expressed permission.

So, once again...WHY is it now a requirement that we see his tax returns? IMO prurient nosiness combined with witch-hunting bias.

Well the solution is simple; petition Congress to change the law making ALL tax records open to the public so any neighbor can demand to see anyone else's tax returns because they "have a right to know." :roll:

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Nobody has stated it's a legal requirement, so you're picking on a man of straw, as usual.

MovingPictures said:

Nobody has stated it's a legal requirement, so you're picking on a man of straw, as usual.

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And yet you appear to support demands that he release his or some way must be found to do so regardless.

Which leaves the question you keep avoiding. Why must the President be required to do so else some way must be found to insure they still get released by hook or crook?

You know, like not being on State ballots for election if he doesn't, changing State law to make State tax returns available as an exception for resident Presidential candidates, Congressional committees demanding them just "cuz" they can.

Captain Adverse said:

And yet you appear to support demands that he release his or some way must be found to do so regardless.

Which leaves the question you keep avoiding. Why must the President be required to do so else some way must be found to insure they still get released by hook or crook?

You know, like not being on State ballots for election if he doesn't, changing State law to make State tax returns available as an exception for resident Presidential candidates, Congressional committees demanding them just "cuz" they can.

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I've already explained to you why presidents ought to be compelled to release their tax returns a million times. You just keeping asking me this question again and again, just so you can be irritating and so you can get on your soap box.

MovingPictures said:

I've already explained to you why presidents ought to be compelled to release their tax returns a million times. You just keeping asking me this question again and again, just so you can be irritating and so you can get on your soap box.

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I've responded to your alleged "reasons" in this thread. They are simply attempts to justify a desire for something without expressing any real purpose.

So far all I've seen is a prurient curiosity coupled with a hope to dig up more dirt. That's exactly what has already been done with the "revelations" of Trumps financial woes in the 80's and 90's...something New Yorkers were well aware of at the time, and Trump even wrote a book about if anyone simply inquired.

What is the PURPOSE of revealing such records in any case? The basic question no one has honestly answered; not you, not anyone. I will keep asking this question until someone answers it honestly.

Then perhaps there can be a real debate and I could be convinced to agree. :coffeepap:

Captain Adverse said:

What is the PURPOSE of revealing such records in any case?

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To laugh at the stupid man who has managed to mangle a massive inheritance?
To laugh at the stupid conservatives who will try to defend it?
To laugh at you?

Captain Adverse said:

Once again, out of HONEST curiosity; WHY is it so earth-shatteringly important that Trump's tax returns be released?

What is the purpose other than sheer nosiness?

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Because when the first President in 50 years refuses to release his returns it is suspicious and the more he fights it the more suspicious it is. What is he hiding? Why is it so hard for Trump to be honest for a change? What makes him so special that he can hide his finances from the American people when every other President was candid about his taxes and financial interests? There are also good reasons for Trump to prove that he is not using his office for financial gain don't you think?

Captain Adverse said:

Once again, out of HONEST curiosity; WHY is it so earth-shatteringly important that Trump's tax returns be released?

What is the purpose other than sheer nosiness?

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This is not difficult. If investigators suspect financial crimes, they look at financial records.

uptower said:

This is not difficult. If investigators suspect financial crimes, they look at financial records.

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True.

But Trump is currently being audited every year he holds office by the IRS. He has also been audited many times over the last 50 years. So the proper "investigators" are already doing their jobs.

As for his financial ups and downs? They have been gleefully reported about loooong before he ran for, much less got elected, President.

Meanwhile, WE are not "investigators." WE are just nosy citizens who like to know other people's business while we hide our own skeletons in closets.

If there was a truly valid reason for revelation of any candidates tax returns, then it should be easily explained. Otherwise I prefer to treat them as I would want to be treated.

Captain Adverse said:

I've responded to your alleged "reasons" in this thread. They are simply attempts to justify a desire for something without expressing any real purpose.

So far all I've seen is a prurient curiosity coupled with a hope to dig up more dirt. That's exactly what has already been done with the "revelations" of Trumps financial woes in the 80's and 90's...something New Yorkers were well aware of at the time, and Trump even wrote a book about if anyone simply inquired.

What is the PURPOSE of revealing such records in any case? The basic question no one has honestly answered; not you, not anyone. I will keep asking this question until someone answers it honestly.

Then perhaps there can be a real debate and I could be convinced to agree. :coffeepap:

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I'll explain this one more time, then don't expect me to ever respond to this question again, understand?

There are questions as to whether Trumps international financial entanglements might influence his official policies. We know from the public domain he is the most financially conflicted president ever, with ventures in China, Japan, Canada, Saudi Arabia, Azerbaijan, South Korea, and other domestic financial relationships that also could present him with opportunities to enrich himself via his public service - something conservatives always say they cared about.

Trump is not required to disclose his finances by law, nobody has ever asserted that. However, his financial entanglements are concerning to the majority of Americans, and his refusal to offer any transparency to remove any doubt in the public and Congresses minds, raises serious questions as to why he is doing so, and if there is something in those records he understands to be problematic that is behind his odd refusal for transparency relating to this serious issue.

Therefor, even though he is not required by law to turn over those records to be president, the Congress has a right to attempt to inquire for those records, and if a court rules in their favor (as they almost certainly will), it wouldn't be a matter of asking him any longer. He'll be forced to allow the release of his financial statements, or face a contempt of court and Congress.

You might not like that the Congressional shoe of subpoena power that Republicans tested to be very broad over the past thirty years, is now on the foot of the other party, but that's just tough **** I guess.

I don't care if you're convinced by these reasons. Really, I doubt anything could ever convince you to take a position in opposition to Trump's line. Which is fine (hey, I'm partisan, too), but don't pretend you're asking these questions because you're honestly unaware of the answers, because I know dozens and dozens of others have explained these exact same reasons to you before.

And now, I'm also done explaining them to you, so have a good night.

MovingPictures said:

I'll explain this one more time, then don't expect me to ever respond to this question again, understand?

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Gaslighting, a time honored tradition. Don't fall for it, friend.

Captain Adverse said:

True.

But Trump is currently being audited every year he holds office by the IRS.

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That is tradition of the IRS service manual, it is not federal tax law.

It's also not clear as to the scope of such an audit and how the IRS would even approach properly auditing Trump's business activities, and whether he is shadow running the Trump family business. As a matter of probability, it's highly unlikely the IRS scope is so broad, and we've seen the IRS screw-up and miss tax fraud by president Nixon.

The W&M committee has a Congressional right to inquire about whether the president is getting favorable treatment, and how thorough an audit of him truly is. The Treasury and IRS's refusal to even work towards a compromise with the committee to insure transparency and balance, only further supports the thesis that such shenanigans might be in play.

Captain Adverse said:

Once again, out of HONEST curiosity; WHY is it so earth-shatteringly important that Trump's tax returns be released?

What is the purpose other than sheer nosiness?

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The only answer I can come up with is "They need to find something they can charge Trump with and make it stick."