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There Simply is no Middle Ground

Thoreau72 said:
Question: did what you see as Trump's collusion with the Russians cause his victory in the election?
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Legally speaking this is irrelevant. If tRump accepted election help from a foreign entity, that's a crime.
 
It's interesting to me that I came to this forum (invited by a friend) because another forum we participate in had become too homogenous. I now realized that that homogeneity developed from being rational. It is very difficult (even in the Loft) to maintain a genuine, thoughtful, rational discussion for even a page before being infested by trolls and partisans. It doesn't seem to matter the topic.

I've been a moderate/independent most of my life. I've campaigned and voted for both Republican and Democratic candidates over the years. I used to ignore party affiliation and voted for the candidate that best mirrored my views. I still do that but party affiliation matters to me a lot, now. I got burned by HW Bush - I had believed he was a rational actor, but he became a party stooge. The environment changed substantially after Ford, and irreparably after Reagan/Gingrich. The GOP of my formative years doesn't exist any more (I think Nixon killed it).

But the level of acrimony, inanity and downright nastiness is just overwhelming. My "ignore" list is practically a page now. I can go to a thread and find an entire page is nearly blank, yet that doesn't prevent the spread of the infection. The fringe absorbs the garment. I don't know how to fight it. In my view, "the middle" is where it happens - where the rubber meets the road, as they say. Lately it's just hard to find the road, which, I suppose, is where we operate on common facts and understanding. Our information silos and bubbles prevent us from talking.
 
NWRatCon said:
It's interesting to me that I came to this forum (invited by a friend) because another forum we participate in had become too homogenous. I now realized that that homogeneity developed from being rational. It is very difficult (even in the Loft) to maintain a genuine, thoughtful, rational discussion for even a page before being infested by trolls and partisans. It doesn't seem to matter the topic.

I've been a moderate/independent most of my life. I've campaigned and voted for both Republican and Democratic candidates over the years. I used to ignore party affiliation and voted for the candidate that best mirrored my views. I still do that but party affiliation matters to me a lot, now. I got burned by HW Bush - I had believed he was a rational actor, but he became a party stooge. The environment changed substantially after Ford, and irreparably after Reagan/Gingrich. The GOP of my formative years doesn't exist any more (I think Nixon killed it).

But the level of acrimony, inanity and downright nastiness is just overwhelming. My "ignore" list is practically a page now. I can go to a thread and find an entire page is nearly blank, yet that doesn't prevent the spread of the infection. The fringe absorbs the garment. I don't know how to fight it. In my view, "the middle" is where it happens - where the rubber meets the road, as they say. Lately it's just hard to find the road, which, I suppose, is where we operate on common facts and understanding. Our information silos and bubbles prevent us from talking.
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For whatever reason, the site has more rabid Right Wingers than IRL. Take solace in knowning that America is stupid, just not this stupid.
 
NWRatCon said:
It's interesting to me that I came to this forum (invited by a friend) because another forum we participate in had become too homogenous. I now realized that that homogeneity developed from being rational. It is very difficult (even in the Loft) to maintain a genuine, thoughtful, rational discussion for even a page before being infested by trolls and partisans. It doesn't seem to matter the topic.

I've been a moderate/independent most of my life. I've campaigned and voted for both Republican and Democratic candidates over the years. I used to ignore party affiliation and voted for the candidate that best mirrored my views. I still do that but party affiliation matters to me a lot, now. I got burned by HW Bush - I had believed he was a rational actor, but he became a party stooge. The environment changed substantially after Ford, and irreparably after Reagan/Gingrich. The GOP of my formative years doesn't exist any more (I think Nixon killed it).

But the level of acrimony, inanity and downright nastiness is just overwhelming. My "ignore" list is practically a page now. I can go to a thread and find an entire page is nearly blank, yet that doesn't prevent the spread of the infection. The fringe absorbs the garment. I don't know how to fight it. In my view, "the middle" is where it happens - where the rubber meets the road, as they say. Lately it's just hard to find the road, which, I suppose, is where we operate on common facts and understanding. Our information silos and bubbles prevent us from talking.
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Dude, I voted for a few Republicans as recently as 2016. Now? I wouldn't vote for one even if the D actually was born in Kenya, hung posters of Chi on the wall and handed Venezuela a trillion dollars to distribute in their streets.

That's how far the GOP has fallen since the Trumpkins came along.
 
Fruityfact said:
For whatever reason, the site has more rabid Right Wingers than IRL. Take solace in knowning that America is stupid, just not this stupid.
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They come on a mission. It's pretty obvious.
 
calamity said:
They come on a mission. It's pretty obvious.
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I am told that it is rampant on any discussion board, and is a relatively new phenomenon. There are posters here that i am confident are "professional" disruptors- i.e., paid for it. I don't know what algorithms the site uses to track such activity, but I've found the same text posted by "different" posters in different threads - not even on point, and clearly intended to take the discussion off topic. I plan to go back, find them, and report it.
 
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calamity said:
After watching the incredible levels of denial from the Trumpkins tonight, I conclude that there is no compromising with these people.

Facts:

1. That Trump colluded with the Russians is all over the Mueller Report.


2. That Trump obstructed justice is even more evident in it.


So, until we see the wrong side begin to agree to a few basic facts (Hint: guys and gals on the Trumpian Right, you might want to actually read the damned report). I see no reason why those of us who are using actual reality as our measuring stick should ever pay any attention to what they have to say again.
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There isn't with the extreme right, they are brainwashed idiots. irrational. They are basically the American Taliban.
 
calamity said:
After watching the incredible levels of denial from the Trumpkins tonight, I conclude that there is no compromising with these people.

Facts:

1. That Trump colluded with the Russians is all over the Mueller Report.


2. That Trump obstructed justice is even more evident in it.


So, until we see the wrong side begin to agree to a few basic facts (Hint: guys and gals on the Trumpian Right, you might want to actually read the damned report). I see no reason why those of us who are using actual reality as our measuring stick should ever pay any attention to what they have to say again.
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We can't stop their. It's time to take names, get them declared non compos mentis, and wipe them off the voter rolls permanently.
 
calamity said:
You say that as if reading is hard.
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It's only 448 pages, double spaced (including all 4 appendices). Yes, much of it is technical, but it is very readable. It took awhile (I'm a relatively slow reader), but much of it can be gleaned from the summaries (about 20 pages). It is readily apparent who has and who has not bothered to try. I admit, I've been anticipating it for some time, so I got my hands on it as fast as I could. It's devastating. It's almost like a spy novel. It's no wonder Mueller was ticked Barr gave it such short shrift. Barr's summary was, essentially, a lie, but a reprise of the memo he wrote last summer.
 
NWRatCon said:
It's only 448 pages, double spaced (including all 4 appendices). Yes, much of it is technical, but it is very readable. It took awhile (I'm a relatively slow reader), but much of it can be gleaned from the summaries (about 20 pages). It is readily apparent who has and who has not bothered to try. I admit, I've been anticipating it for some time, so I got my hands on it as fast as I could. It's devastating. It's almost like a spy novel. It's no wonder Mueller was ticked Barr gave it such short shrift. Barr's summary was, essentially, a lie, but a reprise of the memo he wrote last summer.
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Barr lied about everything.

The report is a fast read. All the redacted paragraphs make the body a blow-through. And, yes, reading Mueller’s summary for each section is the key.
 
NWRatCon said:
I am told that it is rampant on any discussion board, and is a relatively new phenomenon. There are posters here that i am confident are "professional" disruptors- i.e., paid for it. I don't know what algorithms the site uses to track such activity, but I've found the same text posted by "different" posters in different threads - not even on point, and clearly intended to take the discussion off topic. I plan to go back, find them, and report it.
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The level of stupid they spew stuns me, more so that someone would pay them for it.
 
Craig234 said:
Good Americans - not Republicans like you, making the OP's point.
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Excuse me? Let look at glen Simpson and etc. oh wait that’s Hillary Clinton side so she is the victim
 
americanwoman said:
You do.
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I care if it was ALL SIDES! BUT, GUESS WHAT? WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH CHRISTOPHER STEELE AND EVERYONE WHO WAS INVOLVED! OH WAIT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING. SO ya IN MY OPINION I THINK IT’S A PATHETIC THING
 
TheRepublican said:
I care if it was ALL SIDES! BUT, GUESS WHAT? WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH CHRISTOPHER STEELE AND EVERYONE WHO WAS INVOLVED! OH WAIT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING. SO ya IN MY OPINION I THINK IT’S A PATHETIC THING
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Hmm....what's with the all caps?
 
TheRepublican said:
I care if it was ALL SIDES! BUT, GUESS WHAT? WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH CHRISTOPHER STEELE AND EVERYONE WHO WAS INVOLVED! OH WAIT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING. SO ya IN MY OPINION I THINK IT’S A PATHETIC THING
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Calm down bro. Take a walk outside and look at the birds or something.
 
americanwoman said:
Calm down bro. Take a walk outside and look at the birds or something.
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I’m sorry but, if we were using common sense then, why are we still fighting! Did the report say anything !? Please get me someone who has read the report like once and actually accepted it. I’m sorry but, if this report DOESNT has nothing why would you keep pressing! You people the democrats who still refuse to accept the election are acting like that one person who has to make sure that they closed the garage door! Calm down? No I’m sorry but if I was the president I would make sure that no candidate can hire people to help them to try to rigged the election like Hillary Clinton did and I expect that Warren would do something too
 
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TheRepublican said:
I’m sorry but, if we were using common sense then, why are we still fighting! Did the report say anything !? Please get me someone who has read the report like once and actually accepted it. I’m sorry but, if this report DOESNT has nothing why would you keep pressing! You people the democrats who still refuse to accept the election are acting like that one person who has to make sure that they closed the garage door!
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If you're so freaking interested, why did you say "Who cares?"
 
bomberfox said:
Eh when its just trumpkins and apologists for white nationalists against everyone else it gets boring after a while. When you are only faced with dishonest actors. I mean these people will just drag themselves through the mud if it means some dirt will get on their enemies. They make **** up in order to whataboutism their way out of any accusation. Maybe its best to just block than drag yourself down.
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This coming from a supporter of a party that condones destroying evidence by way of erasing hard drives, smashing cell phones, and having the AG meet up with the husband of the woman under investigation on a airport tarmac. :roll:

"whataboutism" is fair play on this forum, and constantly used by the left to deflect as well.

If you don't like it then your block list will certainly fill up with hypocrite liberals as well..........but I doubt this will happen to your fellow team players.
 
RetiredUSN said:
This coming from a supporter of a party that condones destroying evidence by way of erasing hard drives, smashing cell phones, and having the AG meet up with the husband of the woman under investigation on a airport tarmac. :roll:

"whataboutism" is fair play on this forum, and constantly used by the left to deflect as well.

If you don't like it then your block list will certainly fill up with hypocrite liberals as well..........but I doubt this will happen to your fellow team players.
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Whataboutism makes you a hypocrite. You know that right? Makin stuff up again :D
 
TheRepublican said:
I’m sorry but, if we were using common sense then, why are we still fighting! Did the report say anything !? Please get me someone who has read the report like once and actually accepted it. I’m sorry but, if this report DOESNT has nothing why would you keep pressing! You people the democrats who still refuse to accept the election are acting like that one person who has to make sure that they closed the garage door! Calm down? No I’m sorry but if I was the president I would make sure that no candidate can hire people to help them to try to rigged the election like Hillary Clinton did and I expect that Warren would do something too
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First I'm not a Democrat, don't get that confused. Second if there is enough truth instead of wild conspiracy theories then Trump can have his DOJ open an investigation but he hasn't.
 
Stealers Wheel said:
As if that makes any difference whatsoever. When a presidential campaign aligns with foreign governments to further their cause, regardless of whether is was successful or not, should give every true American pause.

Is the U.S. presidency for sale to the highest global bidder?

The fact is, our intelligence services have been sounding the alarm for a long time now, and Trump and his base are turning a deaf ear. This is disturbing on many levels.
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Do you hold the same thoughts and strong feelings about any foreign government involvement in the US electoral process? I doubt it. You just ride the Russophobia train, all the way to hell I suppose.

And I'm betting you have no objections whatsoever to the overt and covert actions of Israeli interests in interfering in our electoral and governmental processes. Neither does most of Congress, though it does seem slowly that tide is turning.

Hillary blamed Russia for her loss, suggesting it was Russian influence, NEVER DEFINED, NEVER DISCOVERED, that somehow caused US voters to elect Donald.

It's theater sir, pure and simple.
 
Phys251 said:
Legally speaking this is irrelevant. If tRump accepted election help from a foreign entity, that's a crime.
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Of course this is merely an internet forum, not a court of law.

Feel free to offer an opinion if you wish. And if you do, perhaps you might offer some form of proof that the Russians helped Trump's campaign, but I doubt you can or will. In 2 years Mueller could find nothing about that, but yes, Mueller is as compromised as any career man inside the beltway.
 
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