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Was Dick Cheney responsible for most of the horrible stuff in the Bush Administration?

Was Dick Cheney responsible for most of the horrible stuff in the Bush Administration?

Yes!!

Cheney is a heartless prick of the first magnitude. The sole cause of so much death and destruction.<--period

Dubya was to dumb to know what was happening around him. Bush wasn't a nice guy that got taken advantage of, just a spoiled brat without a clue.
 
Dick Cheney is possibly the most evil presidents we've had. I haven't seen the movie even though I really like Sam Rockwell ever since I first saw him in The Green Mile. There have been many conspiracy theories that lay the blame of the 9/11 terror attacks squarely at the feet of Dick Cheney. All I know is that he had five heart attacks, the first when he was just 37. In 2010, doctors implanted a battery-powered heart pump considered a "bridge to transplantation." In 2012, he got his heart transplant at the age of 71. Some say because of his power and status he 'jumped the line' but he did wait 20 months for that new heart. His heart transplant reopened a debate over whether young patients should receive scarce donor organs before someone Cheney's age.

Thanks to his money and top-notch health insurance, Dick Cheney got his new heart. The poor and uninsured simply don't have a fair shot at getting a heart. Transplants produce bills in the hundreds of thousands of dollars and only those who can pay get serious consideration. Cases like Cheney's should spur us to ask tough ethical questions about such an unfair system.

Sorry, I meant of course, VICE president. He loomed so largely over Bush that I thought of him more as our president behind the curtain. And....'vice' is a perfect title for him.
 
Sorry, I meant of course, VICE president. He loomed so largely over Bush that I thought of him more as our president behind the curtain. And....'vice' is a perfect title for him.

It is the most common error to imagine anyone but GWB himself was in charge of that administration.
 
I have often heard that Dick Cheney was one of our country's most powerful vice presidents and a lot of the horrible policies that were enacted during the W. Bush administration were the result of his influence.

I know he pushed for the Iraq War and The Patriot Act. He also pushed for some of the terrible cabinet picks such as Donald Rumsfeld (who did not get along with Bush's father). They had worked together in the Ford administration.

I often feel that Cheney (who is without a doubt a repulsive excuse for a human being) gets too much blame when in fact Bush was the president and therefore deserves most of the blame for what occurred in his administration.

Vice presidents historically have had little power or influence over the president they served with.

George W. Bush was the no-nothing, incompetent son of a president who was picked (by Karl Rove) to be the face of the party, and who was happy to let the plutocrats get away with murder. His #1 priority first term was huge tax cuts for the rich (done) and second term was privatizing Social Security (did not happen).

When he decided to run, he put Dick Cheney in charge of finding him a Vice President - Cheney was the insider bureaucrat and appointed himself the VP on the ticket, with a deal with Bush that he would be that most powerful VP ever - in other words, he had the experience and the agenda. It wasn't until Bush's last two years he started to get some distance and take charge more - just as the economy began crashing.
 
Cheney was a fine VP in a successful administration in which, btw, GWB was very much in charge.

What an ignorant and dishonest person to post that. Makes Baghdad Bob look good.
 
that's always been my impression. Cheney 'the puppet master.'

But I'd still like to see the movie.

I didn't, after I saw a review say they were far to soft on Cheney, telling a lot of his 'family story' sympathetically, such as his gay daughter.

Not the movie we need. But parts seem good.
 
It is the most common error to imagine anyone but GWB himself was in charge of that administration.

Three things will always define George W. Bush's presidency.1. His quick response to 9/11. 2. Starting the Iraq war (oops, no WMD's there) which empowered ISIS to develop as a terrorist force, and 3. The $700 billion economic bailout of the banking industry on Wall Street using Social Security funds.
 
George W. Bush was the no-nothing, incompetent son of a president who was picked (by Karl Rove) to be the face of the party, and who was happy to let the plutocrats get away with murder. His #1 priority first term was huge tax cuts for the rich (done) and second term was privatizing Social Security (did not happen).

When he decided to run, he put Dick Cheney in charge of finding him a Vice President - Cheney was the insider bureaucrat and appointed himself the VP on the ticket, with a deal with Bush that he would be that most powerful VP ever - in other words, he had the experience and the agenda. It wasn't until Bush's last two years he started to get some distance and take charge more - just as the economy began crashing.

What an ignorant and dishonest person to post that. Makes Baghdad Bob look good.

I see you swallowed the opposition talking points whole. They were false then and time has not made them true.
 
Three things will always define George W. Bush's presidency.1. His quick response to 9/11. 2. Starting the Iraq war (oops, no WMD's there) which empowered ISIS to develop as a terrorist force, and 3. The $700 billion economic bailout of the banking industry on Wall Street using Social Security funds.

1. True
2. WMD were the excuse, not the reason, for the Iraq invasion. And it it was the premature US withdrawal from Iraq, not the initial invasion, which enabled ISIS.
3. Whatever one thinks of the bailout, Social Security was not specifically burdened.
 
1. True
2. WMD were the excuse, not the reason, for the Iraq invasion. And it it was the premature US withdrawal from Iraq, not the initial invasion, which enabled ISIS.
3. Whatever one thinks of the bailout, Social Security was not specifically burdened.

Social Security should have never been pirated to bail out bloated banks doing bad things. Social Security was meant to provide a meager existence to retired old people, not for millionaire hedge fund guys.
 
Social Security should have never been pirated to bail out bloated banks doing bad things. Social Security was meant to provide a meager existence to retired old people, not for millionaire hedge fund guys.

Social Security funds have been used for general spending from the beginning of the program.
 
Social Security funds have been used for general spending from the beginning of the program.

I can 'almost' see spending social security funds on something that benefits people in our population, people that should benefit, like fixing the water in Flint Michigan so people can let their kids drink it without suffering rashes and brain damage. I don't think we should have bailed out the pigs on Wall St with that money.
 
I can 'almost' see spending social security funds on something that benefits people in our population, people that should benefit, like fixing the water in Flint Michigan so people can let their kids drink it without suffering rashes and brain damage. I don't think we should have bailed out the pigs on Wall St with that money.

It's all the same money, whether it's used for welfare, weapons, salaries, buildings or banking bailouts or whatever.
 
It's all the same money, whether it's used for welfare, weapons, salaries, buildings or banking bailouts or whatever.

You really think that the Social Security surpluses should be given to millionaires who committed fraud rather than regular people who are struggling to make ends meet on a day to day basis? Or maybe we need to spend more money on the military which accounts for 54% of our budget already? Whose salaries does Social Security funds go to when raided? What buildings get refurbished or constructed with Social Security surpluses?
 
You really think that the Social Security surpluses should be given to millionaires who committed fraud rather than regular people who are struggling to make ends meet on a day to day basis? Or maybe we need to spend more money on the military which accounts for 54% of our budget already? Whose salaries does Social Security funds go to when raided? What buildings get refurbished or constructed with Social Security surpluses?

There is no "should" in this discussion. I'm telling you what has happened from the beginning.
 
I have often heard that Dick Cheney was one of our country's most powerful vice presidents and a lot of the horrible policies that were enacted during the W. Bush administration were the result of his influence.

I know he pushed for the Iraq War and The Patriot Act. He also pushed for some of the terrible cabinet picks such as Donald Rumsfeld (who did not get along with Bush's father). They had worked together in the Ford administration.

I often feel that Cheney (who is without a doubt a repulsive excuse for a human being) gets too much blame when in fact Bush was the president and therefore deserves most of the blame for what occurred in his administration.

Vice presidents historically have had little power or influence over the president they served with.
What "horrible policies"? Things went well until 2007 when the Dems swept Congress and the Great Recession ensued. :lamo
 
I see you swallowed the opposition talking points whole. They were false then and time has not made them true.

It's common for ignorant people who have fallen for right-wing propaganda to use the words "talking points" to attack people because they can't actually make an argument. Another is to refer to the people they disagree with having a vague "agenda" like "liberal agenda" or "gay agenda"if they defend civil rights or "race card" if they oppose racism, etc Note your post lacks any substance.
 
What "horrible policies"? Things went well until 2007 when the Dems swept Congress and the Great Recession ensued. :lamo

Do you want to really make a fool of yourself and blame the Democratic House for the 2008 Great Recession, rather than things like the Wall Street deregulation and lack of oversight that were core Republican policies both in the law and regulatory agencies, along with too many Democrats who supports some of that deregulation agenda including the Gramm-Leach rollback of things like Glass-Steagall (but virtually ALL the opposition came from Democrats)?
 
2. WMD were the excuse, not the reason, for the Iraq invasion. And it it was the premature US withdrawal from Iraq, not the initial invasion, which enabled ISIS.

No, it was not. You're right that Bush lied about the reasons for the war, using WMD as a cover story, but it was his incredibly incompetent mismanagement of the occupation - throwing out Colin Powell's plan to put and the General in charge to install a terrible 'czar' who did things like destroying the entire civil government and disbanding the army, driving them all into an insurgency, that led to ISIL.
 
Three things will always define George W. Bush's presidency.1. His quick response to 9/11. 2. Starting the Iraq war (oops, no WMD's there) which empowered ISIS to develop as a terrorist force, and 3. The $700 billion economic bailout of the banking industry on Wall Street using Social Security funds.

1. No, his petulant ignoring of Clinton's warning that Al Queda was his biggest threat, and revrsal of Clinton's anti-Al Queda efforts just to do the opposite of Clinton, that helped 9/11 happen, that are his part - followed within hours by ordering his top officials to find a link with Saddam for his plans to start the Iraq war, the massive security bureaucracy/patriot act/illegal surveillance response.

2. Too big a topic to get into here, but he was determined to have that war since before he was president for the political boost to pass his corrupt economic agenda - and even moreso when he ended up stealing the election, and his popularity was plummeting.

3. The bailout was NOT the problem itself - the Republican policies that helped the crash happen, and the bailing out only of the rich - so that the 2008 crash ended up transferring trillions from the people to the rich, when the rich got basically ALL of the recovery for years - are big parts of his presidency.

People forget how bad Bush was.
 
George Bush asked Cheney to find him a running mate. Cheney picked himself. That's about all you need to know about him. The way I remember it through haze of the Great Recession was that Cheney wanted war with Iran because he was a war profiteer.
Bush stood up to him. Their working relationship ended. I've forgiven George W. Bush for what happened during his administration. I have not forgiven Cheney.

Sorry. The blame ultimately ends up with the guy who actually HAS the power. Bush couldn't stand up to Cheney? That's on HIM
 
What "horrible policies"? Things went well until 2007 when the Dems swept Congress and the Great Recession ensued. :lamo

Things like the Great Recession don't just "happen". They are CAUSED...by the "things" you say were going well
 
1. No, his petulant ignoring of Clinton's warning that Al Queda was his biggest threat, and revrsal of Clinton's anti-Al Queda efforts just to do the opposite of Clinton, that helped 9/11 happen, that are his part - followed within hours by ordering his top officials to find a link with Saddam for his plans to start the Iraq war, the massive security bureaucracy/patriot act/illegal surveillance response.

2. Too big a topic to get into here, but he was determined to have that war since before he was president for the political boost to pass his corrupt economic agenda - and even moreso when he ended up stealing the election, and his popularity was plummeting.

3. The bailout was NOT the problem itself - the Republican policies that helped the crash happen, and the bailing out only of the rich - so that the 2008 crash ended up transferring trillions from the people to the rich, when the rich got basically ALL of the recovery for years - are big parts of his presidency.

People forget how bad Bush was.

Yes he was bad. The image of him standing on a pile of ashes holding a bullhorn with his arm around a NY fireman in Manhattan after 9/11 cemented his image. But even in real-time, a lot of people knew he was a tool. That's why I campaigned for John Kerry in 2004. One thing I can say about George W. is that he was never mean spirited or cruel. He always brought comic relief to any situation. I think George W. had a kind heart in contrast to Dick Cheney's evil one.
 
Vice was hard to watch; seemed to have no natural flow/rythym.

I enjoyed the movie because it was informative about his younger years.

Cheney took us to the dark side, but Dubya was happy to go along, and Pappa Bush was happy too.

911 served many purposes.
 
Sorry. The blame ultimately ends up with the guy who actually HAS the power. Bush couldn't stand up to Cheney? That's on HIM

You have a point and I agree with it largely, but it really misses the story also. While Bush might be 'morally' accountable, when you get an incompetent narcissist sociopath figurehead who will be 'president' and serve powerful interests, ultimately pointing your finger at them and 'blaming' them for doing so doesn't get you much except a 'duh' and a laugh from them at your expense.

Let's switch gears for a second to another election, governor of California nearly 20 years ago. You had a Democratic governor just re-elected doing pretty well after some not very good Republicans; but you also had a large scandal in how some energy companies were scamming the state, getting rich finding ways to rip off the people, with a corrupt Bush/Cheney White House on the scammers' side.

The energy companies had finally sort of gotten caught, and California was going to be entitled to a lot of damages for its citizens - $9 billion in fact, and Governor Davis had filed suit under a law that would let California get those damages. The person who would lose the most was Ken Lay, Enron CEO, and he began looking for ways to kill Davis' efforts.

He started an effort to find a new governor who would abandon the lawsuit, holding a secret planning meeting - one of the people recruited was Arnold Schwarzeneggar, who attended that meeting. They funded a recall movement to hype up public discontent over DMV fees Davis had increased - and it worked, the public who had just re-elected Davis, now voted to recall him. He was out of power, in part ironically blamed for all the power company problems.

And California had a strange election to replace him, anyone could run - you had over 100 people on the ballot from academics to unknown politicians to the quirky like actor Gary Coleman - and Arnold Schwarzeneggar, recruited and groomed by Enron and other businesses.

(Schwarzeneggar was not what you'd call the most 'loyal' person to those he should be - when he bought a plane, he did over the border in Nevada to avoid California sales tax; this was around the time he was fathering a child with the maid while married to Maria Shriver; and he supported screwing the people of California out of $9 billion to help Ken Lay).

And Schwarzeneggar's name recognition and 'public image' built by decades of movie hero roles was too powerful for the other 100+ candidates to overcome, and the 'celebrity' won the governorship - in a mockery of the theory of democracy. (Davis on the other hand was such a devoted public servant, he worked hard to help Schwarzeneggar learn the job, which Schwarzeneggar admitted and thanked him for).

Now, you can point fingers all day at Schwarzeneggar as the elected authority, and blame him for accepting the sweetheart settlement for Enron, which was the whole reason he'd been groomed for governor and a recall done to get him in. But how good does that do, really, appealing to some absent 'moral' conscience of Schwarzeneggar, without looking at the real issues from Ken Lay to the weaknesses in our democracy that let this happen?

(Of course, Schwarzeneggar went on to be the bad governor you'd expect - the state went into great debt, Schwarzeneggar put his name behind some initiatives and lost, and I think even the DMV fees Davis was recalled over were restored. He was followed by Democrat Jerry Brown returning as governor, who turned the state around to a far better shape. But a bit like trump, Schwarzeneggar was very 'popular' with many voters initially, so much so that he was
a 'celebrity politician' who took part in George W. Bush's re-election campaign with lots of half-jokes about how to overcome Schwarzeneggar being born out of the US so he could be president - he was similarly unqualified to Bush, but better looking and more appealing).

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