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Impeaching cabinet officials.

This is strictly a partisan assumption on your part.

Congress, with Democrat chairpersons, hears/reads classified testimony/documents virtually every week Congress is in session.

...And have been making declarations about "facts/evidence revealed" during supposedly closed sessions over the last 2 years. Facts not in evidence and in many cases subsequently shown to be false. Like my example of Mr. Schiff.

There doesn't have to be a requirement, the law gives the chairman of the W&M committee the right to Trump's tax records.

See, you have hit the nail on the head. They feel there does not have to be a reason, and you agree. They simply want to do so with apparently no valid motive, just because they can. IMO that is harassment simply because Mr. Trump has exercised the same rights as you and I have to keep them confidential and NOT to post them voluntarily. If that isn't an example of harassment, I don't know what one is.

Again, he has been audited time and again by the IRS under past Administrations. Seemingly without issue, or if any issue, properly resolved under Tax Law at the time.
 
I have one simple question...

What is the purpose of Congress (or anyone other than the IRS for that matter) looking at Mr. Trump's tax records?

He has been audited several times past by the IRS, and if there were any issues found he would have been fined or otherwise dealt with.

So, aside from simply wanting to do so, I fail to understand why either Congress (or any citizen) would NEED, much less WANT to do so.

I personally have nothing to hide in my tax history; but I certainly consider it protected from a general desire to snoop into my financial history.

Please explain this "requirement," which has always been voluntary prior to date.

Very simple.... Congress has the power to make ANYONES tax return public record... They could easily pass a law making the presidents and anyone else's records public record.
 
Very simple.... Congress has the power to make ANYONES tax return public record... They could easily pass a law making the presidents and anyone else's records public record.

That's not an argument, but rather an opinion on a possibility.

Yet until that ever happens, tax records remain confidential unless the taxpayer gives permission to make them public.
 
While I disagree that we're not in a constitutional crisis, I find this articles proposals on how to punish the administrations 'above the law' behavior.

It's a way of impeaching Trump without impeaching him directly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...titutional-crisis-yet/?utm_term=.ccea0c24a3d0

Democrats seriously have to consider putting these actions on the table, or this entire administration is going to only get worse in its lawlessness and politicization of our institutions.

Republicans didn't think twice about holding Holder in contempt, or putting impeachment of Rosenstein on the table.

Otherwise, this administration has truly called the Democrats bluff in being able to be a check on this WH.

Make 100% sure that folks like Barr and Mnuchin will face indictment and prosecution the moment they leave office.
Thus if impeachment does fail, prosecution after they leave office might not.

I don't think either of these ass-clowns want that hanging over their head. It's just not worth it to them.
 
Footnote: Since this IS a political debate forum, the notion that members refuse to pay a subscription to a major newspaper is laughable. I'm not wealthy but I am perfectly willing to maintain monthly subscriptions to WaPo and the LA Times.
I've had a NYT subscription in the past and I thought it expired a long time ago but for some reason I continue to have access, and I don't question it.

What's the big deal here, guys? Are you saying NONE of you used to put a buck in the slot and pull out a newspaper back in the days when paper was king and online didn't exist? Do you honestly think that journalism should be 100% free?
Simply put, if you're too cheap and skin-flinty to buy a stupid newspaper, it's difficult to take you seriously.

Don't like the NYT? Okay, subscribe to the Washington Times then. It started with Reverend Sun Myung Moon but it is a Washington newspaper.

But in the past two months I think I've scrolled past no less than a HUNDRED "I don't intend to pay the paywall" comments and they're getting old.
Don't debate politics then, because if you can't bear to buy and read a newspaper, I don't intend to read the hearsay and claptrap that you got from Natural News or The Daily Caller.
 
This sounds like a fantastic idea, and should definitely be pursued. Everything about Trump's admin is corrupt, and I'm sure they have plenty of grounds to deal with all of them - from Mnuchin to Pai to DeVos. They're all lying sacks of **** working to actively ruin the very departments they're supposed to be running and they all held very obvious conflicts of interest that should have kept them from being confirmed at all.
 
Footnote: Since this IS a political debate forum, the notion that members refuse to pay a subscription to a major newspaper is laughable. I'm not wealthy but I am perfectly willing to maintain monthly subscriptions to WaPo and the LA Times.
I've had a NYT subscription in the past and I thought it expired a long time ago but for some reason I continue to have access, and I don't question it.

What's the big deal here, guys? Are you saying NONE of you used to put a buck in the slot and pull out a newspaper back in the days when paper was king and online didn't exist? Do you honestly think that journalism should be 100% free?
Simply put, if you're too cheap and skin-flinty to buy a stupid newspaper, it's difficult to take you seriously.

Don't like the NYT? Okay, subscribe to the Washington Times then. It started with Reverend Sun Myung Moon but it is a Washington newspaper.

But in the past two months I think I've scrolled past no less than a HUNDRED "I don't intend to pay the paywall" comments and they're getting old.
Don't debate politics then, because if you can't bear to buy and read a newspaper, I don't intend to read the hearsay and claptrap that you got from Natural News or The Daily Caller.

"lol like i'm gonna pay for fake news" "failing new york times" "17 angry democrats" etc...
 
"lol like i'm gonna pay for fake news" "failing new york times" "17 angry democrats" etc...

Well, that's why I said they could at least pay for The Washington Times.
I wouldn't use it line a birdcage but it is still an order of magnitude better than InfoWars, NewsMax or The Daily Caller.
But those three are FREE, and of course "worth every penny". :lamo
 
"lol like i'm gonna pay for fake news" "failing new york times" "17 angry democrats" etc...

It just kills me that there are so many haughty arrogant "conservatives" (and yes, a few liberals too) who insist that they are so well informed but they refuse to shell out five or ten bucks a month for a damn newspaper subscription.

It's getting to the point where every single thread on this site includes AT LEAST TWO people who are actually PROUD of not paying to read a newspaper. And they often go hand in hand with the "I don't watch videos" bunch.

53170701-emoticon-showing-deny-or-refuse-hand-gesture.jpg


Oh....hurt me hurt me, if it was a right wing clip you'd be pimping it like a twenty dollar hooker to everyone.

Not to mention this probability:

hot-ebony bluetooth 13570099.webp

Yeah, I'd bet money you guys DO "watch videos"...all the time. :lamo
 
That's not an argument, but rather an opinion on a possibility.

Yet until that ever happens, tax records remain confidential unless the taxpayer gives permission to make them public.

That's called legislative intent which makes the request completely legal... CONGRESS can pass bills making this happen and their ability to assess the need for such legislation requires the type of access requested...
 
Red:
I find the idea ridiculous because:


...


You don't get it.

A contempt citation will have no teeth, because under current rules of the House, the committee simply passes the matter to the US attorney in DC
, who works for the DOJ and Barr, who can refuse to take the contempt case if the House wants criminal charges, and so it too would be largely symbolic.

Holding Mnuchin in contempt is indeed a start, but the Dems should demand Barr allow the US attorney to take the case to court, or else Barr should be held in contempt and impeachment and censure should be voted on, even if the Senate does nothing.

Being impeached has a stigma that neither Mnuchin or Barr want, and just the threat could compel them to resign, or start following the law.

Red:
Re: Congress' statutory power of contempt, you are correct that, as goes the intransigent people working under Trump, the contempt citation would be rather "toothless."

I know that too which I why I provided a link to one of my prior posts that links to two SCOTUS decisions pertaining to Congress' inherent contempt power and to an article that discusses Congress' inherent contempt power.

Did you not read my post and the linked-to content it references -- the two court decisions and Adam Cohen's essay?

I think you didn't because had you, you'd know I most certainly do "get it." In fact, I "got it" and have, on DP, tacitly or expressly indicated Congress avail itself of its inherent contempt power for some time now. In addition to post 14 from "Why/how Trump can violate the law with impunity!", I did so on several occasions:

Aside:
I cannot tell you precisely when I first "got it," but I know it was decades ago, as in well before Trump Admin and campaign personnel first exhibited their evasiveness, intransigence and contemptuousness. I can say I looked into the nature of Congress' power to deal with contemptuous behavior decades ago when I was incensed over the evasiveness Congress forbore regarding the non-answer responses SCOTUS nominees, appointees, various witnesses and even a POTUS gave them. I recall being amazed that Congress let Reagan off with all his "I don't recall" answers, IIRC, some 80+ of them. I knew the instant I saw them do so, I knew I was witnessing a horrendous portent commence into fruition an awful practice. Roughly around that time (early 1990, I think) is when I first looked into Congress' contempt powers and happened upon the document you'll find linked in my Dec 28[SUP]th[/SUP] post.

I did because being from the "no nonsense" background I am, were I a committee chair, speaker or majority leader, I'd have made generous use of the inherent contempt power. I would have because, quite frankly, the notion of one's being evasive when testifying before Congress has never sat right with me. If one doesn't know "this or that" detail (date, exact wording, etc.) one nonetheless knows the substance and context of events in which one participated, so that's what one shares. To do otherwise is, IMO, unpatriotic. Why Congress allows witnesses to do otherwise astounds me.


Blue:
One of the reasons I discussed the inherent contempt power is that the Senate has no role in the House's invocation of them. IIRC, the speaker has a role in the Senate's use of that power. I could check, but were I too, I'd link to the document, and it'd then just be something else you don't read and about which you tell me I don't "get it."
 
That's called legislative intent which makes the request completely legal... CONGRESS can pass bills making this happen and their ability to assess the need for such legislation requires the type of access requested...

Ummm, no. That is not "legislative intent."

Legislative intent refers to evidence in the record of original debates and discussions of the intent of those who created a piece of legislation. It is a method used to interpret the intent of a law if the plain meaning is unclear.

So unless what you are stating was part of both the discussion and consensus during the creation of the legislation involved, your argument is nonsense.

What Congress may do regarding future legislation is, as I stated, pure opinion and speculation.

Meanwhile, people still have a right to privacy. For the purpose of taxation, citizens are required to provide a great deal of otherwise private information for the sole purpose of determining their tax obligations.

Making this information a matter of open public record would result in people being less willing to be forthcoming, creating all sorts of problems.

Be careful what you consider authorizing the central government to do, your personal liberties are always at stake. :coffeepap:
 
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Ummm, no. That is not "legislative intent."

Legislative intent refers to evidence in the record of original debates and discussions of the intent of those who created a piece of legislation. It is a method used to interpret the intent of a law if the plain meaning is unclear.

So unless what you are stating was part of both the discussion and consnsus during the creation of the legislation involved, your argument is nonsense.

What Congress may do regarding future legislation is, as I stated, pure opinion and speculation. :coffeepap:

What evidence would a house committee provide to the courts of their intent?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
What evidence would a house committee provide to the courts of their intent?

You are confusing the term "legislative intent" with simple intent. One has to do with examining the goals of creating a piece of legislation. The other reflects the simple question of "why are they currently seeking to take such and so action?"
 
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You are confusing the term "legislative intent" with simple intent. One has to do with examining the goals of creating a piece of legislation. The other reflects the simple question of "why are they currently seeking to take such and so action?"

Hmmm... So, if a committee requested a detailed report would that support legislative intent?
 
Footnote: Since this IS a political debate forum, the notion that members refuse to pay a subscription to a major newspaper is laughable. I'm not wealthy but I am perfectly willing to maintain monthly subscriptions to WaPo and the LA Times.
I've had a NYT subscription in the past and I thought it expired a long time ago but for some reason I continue to have access, and I don't question it.

What's the big deal here, guys? Are you saying NONE of you used to put a buck in the slot and pull out a newspaper back in the days when paper was king and online didn't exist? Do you honestly think that journalism should be 100% free?
Simply put, if you're too cheap and skin-flinty to buy a stupid newspaper, it's difficult to take you seriously.

Don't like the NYT? Okay, subscribe to the Washington Times then. It started with Reverend Sun Myung Moon but it is a Washington newspaper.

But in the past two months I think I've scrolled past no less than a HUNDRED "I don't intend to pay the paywall" comments and they're getting old.
Don't debate politics then, because if you can't bear to buy and read a newspaper, I don't intend to read the hearsay and claptrap that you got from Natural News or The Daily Caller.

I have to offer another opinion here my friend. First of all, I really do miss reading a real newspaper with coffee and a cigarette in the morning. Looking at a 3x6 phone in a coffee shop just isn't satisfying.

Between watching CNN, BBC, MSNBC newscasts and reading their free articles and other online sources, I'm able to keep relatively well informed. When I use Google to search for news or an informed opinion to post here, I always use a reputable source. I invite you to review my past or future posts for confirmation.

Like Amy's list that used to require a membership, many online services are now using ads to fund their businesses. Maybe it's because in the olden days I could walk away with a tangible item for a quarter, it just doesn't seem the same on line. At least I used to be able to line the bottom of my birdcage.

Maybe my unscrupulous attitude started when as a kid, I used to help my friend fold and deliver newspapers from his bike. To make the folding faster, we used to throw out the ad inserts... :shock:
 
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I have to offer another opinion here my friend. First of all, I really do miss reading a real newspaper with coffee and a cigarette in the morning. Looking at a 3x6 phone in a coffee shop just isn't satisfying.

Between watching CNN, BBC, MSNBC newscasts and reading their free articles and other online sources, I'm able to keep relatively well informed. When I use Google to search for news or an informed opinion to post here, I always use a reputable source. I invite you to review my past or future posts for confirmation.

Like Amy's list that used to require a membership, many online services are now using ads to fund their businesses. Maybe it's because in the olden days I could walk away with a tangible item for a quarter, it just doesn't seem the same on line. At least I used to be able to line the bottom of my birdcage.

Maybe my unscrupulous attitude started when as a kid, I used to help my friend fold and deliver newspapers from his bike. To make the folding faster, we used to throw out the ad inserts... :shock:

Understood and maybe that is where we might differ.
I've gotten used to owning a couple of digital newspaper subscriptions.
Now here is what I would like to see changed however:

I wish I did not have to have thirteen different subscriptions to read thirteen different papers.
I would like it to work like cable, meaning an "ALL YOU CAN EAT" weekly, monthly, quarterly or yearly access token that lets you take your pick of any of a few hundred participating papers. If you own the basic "bronze" token, you get to choose from 10 papers, silver token, 50 papers, gold token, 200 papers and platinum or enterprise/professional class token, ALL of them.

Maybe it will move in that direction. I'd do anything to make it happen like that. I think it's an idea that should grow legs.
 
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