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Bernie yes, Biden no

Impeachment? ****, is that all you think about? Is the entirety of your head-space filled with 'GottaGetRidofTrumpGottaGetRidofTrumpNothingElseMattersGottaGetRidofTrump'?

Nope, and if you followed my posts you'd know that.
 
That democrat nominee better have something other than socialism, and "lovable" will never describe Bernie, except for those who want something paid for by someone who earned the money. Biden's "lovableness" will not serve him well in the hustings.

The word, 'lovable' was never in any of my posts, so I don't know why you're responding to me with that, and is "ERMAGOD, SOCIALISM" the only argument that you have? Are you going to start repeating 'Venezuala' over and over now? Do you not understand how terms like 'socialism' have been rendered meaningless in public discourse by being attributed to competing idealogies and policy stances? Are you actually going to demonstrate how his policy stances are more comparable to failed authoritarian regimes instead of being more comparable to the pre-80's United States or the Norweigian model? Am I going to eventually have to explain why having 'Socialist' in their name doesn't make the Nazis the same as other groups that use that term?
 
That democrat nominee better have something other than socialism, and "lovable" will never describe Bernie, except for those who want something paid for by someone who earned the money. Biden's "lovableness" will not serve him well in the hustings.

C'mon, use your mind. Reagan won because he was loved through his pictures and his beliefs. Bill Clinton won because he was Charistmatic and caring of others and showed in everything he said. Obama won because he inspired people to be better than they were and was believable. Trump won mostly because he was known publicly through the Apprentice. People tend to buy what they like. Few go through the work of thinking about they are actually talented at doing.

We can certainly debate what each of these people bring to the table but one thing that is a given is that popularity is important, ability to inspire is important, lovability is important, respect is important and trust is important. Bernie brings trust and respect to the table as well as he is known by everyone. Biden brings lovability and consistency to the table, Trump brings hate and dissension to the table and those were not known quantities before. They are now and it will destroy him.
 
I don't agree. I see Bernie as the cold war USSR where the government runs everything. Whether you want to call him a socialist or communist (take your pick) he is every thing we spent the last 100 years fighting. I think the republicans would work with Biden unlike the democrats who will not work with anyone. If the democrats don't bring and end to this witch hunt and misuse of our justice system for political gain we may have civil war on our hands. I personally think it is time to take back our government. Our forefathers were clearly right about every now and then you have to upset the applecart to get rid of all the rotten apples.

You list yourself as a liberal. You should change that. No liberal would compare the type of democratic socialism that Sanders represents, and that countries like Denmark and several others have now, with the USSR. Then there's your "witch hunt" remark. The views you've expressed in this post are far from liberal. Are you trolling?
 
Nope, and if you followed my posts you'd know that.

Why on Earth would I follow your posts? You're one random guy on a very active forum. Is your response to me really going to be 'well, you, a random user, should know what's going on in my head, because I've posted other stuff before.'

I don't know you, Cardinal, not yet. Anyhoo . . .
 
IMHO, the demorat base has moved so far left that whoever can win the DNC primary will have little chance of winning the general POTUS election.

The base hasn't moved, but the far left of center is making more noise lately and making it seem like a shift.
 
C'mon, use your mind. Reagan won because he was loved through his pictures and his beliefs. Bill Clinton won because he was Charistmatic and caring of others and showed in everything he said. Obama won because he inspired people to be better than they were and was believable. Trump won mostly because he was known publicly through the Apprentice. People tend to buy what they like. Few go through the work of thinking about they are actually talented at doing.

We can certainly debate what each of these people bring to the table but one thing that is a given is that popularity is important, ability to inspire is important, lovability is important, respect is important and trust is important. Bernie brings trust and respect to the table as well as he is known by everyone. Biden brings lovability and consistency to the table, Trump brings hate and dissension to the table and those were not known quantities before. They are now and it will destroy him.

All those former presidents that you mentioned? **** 'em.
 
I DID. The first thing I said to you was "Socialism".The only acceptable socialist activities are those that society deems efficient to provide FOR society, things like fire departments, police departments, roads, etc. If society wants to band together to build a community hospital and allow medical staff to use it to provide for the common good, that's a form of socialism that meets the criteria. The government has a role in ensuring that health and welfare of all the people is protected, but why should they be controlling the operation of the activity in question?

Right. So what is it that Sanders advocates that you object to? I mean, you list what you consider acceptable socialism, where does Bernie Sanders deviate from the acceptable?
I keep getting back to what I was taught about socialism, that it begins with government control of production and without that, it's not socialism. You list social programs that aren't socialism, just the word 'social' applying to several things. Lots of words are like that. Liberal means one thing when I say society hasn't yet gotten as good as it can be, another when I say I approve of the liberal gun laws in America and something else again if I'm serving ice cream.
So what is it about Bernie Sanders that you object to?
 
Moved so far left? I don't think they have moved any more than they were before. Hillary barely beat Bernie and she beat him because she was a woman, was a known factor and represented the Clinton name and Bill, in spite of what he did, was loved. Nonetheless, Bernie got a lot of support and he is and was considered the far left and that has not changed.

Are you kidding me? The move leftward away from much more heavily federally regulated and subsidized 'private' medical care insurance (PPACA) towards full blown M4A with its total elimination of 'private' medical care insurance (as well as eliminating all for-profit medical care providers) is extremely noticeable to most folks.

It may be true that Bernie has not moved left (since 2016) but certainly many more of the (20?) demorats now running for POTUS have moved left to join Bernie in calling for more "free" stuff completely provided by the federal government. To be fair (to Bernie) he did call for (33%?) state fund matching for his "free" college but I have not heard of any state fund matching requirements for M4A or reparations.
 
Yeah I know. People are very simple that way. No room for any nuance or sophistication. They hear the word "socialism", and like an stupid angry bull at the rodeo charging at a red cape, they just go at it. :roll:

Actually, a better analogy would be a frightened rabbit running down into its hole, and not rearing its head until its time to come out and vote for Trump again.

:bunny:
 
Tomorrow?...There are dozens of pudgy little fat men sitting in an office right now digging up anything they can to smear and degrade any Democratic front runner...I fully expect the Alt Right to go after Biden's deceased son...It is what they do

Most likely those are pudgy little fat Russian hackers. Again.
 
All those former presidents that you mentioned? **** 'em.

Aha, does this mean you LOVE Trump in spite of all the hate, dissension, lawlessness, corruption and incompetence he has brought?

Fortunately, such a person is normally in the minority and can be ignored, as those kind of people were ignored until the Democrats Fu**ed up by nominating someone just as hateful as Trump was and is. You can't beat hate with more hate but I guarantee you that if the Democrats use their head this time and nominate someone that is not hateful, they will crush Trump
 
Who do you think the DNC Elites will decide to nominate...like they did in 2016? Bernie or Biden?

Hint: Think about who gets the most favorable news, opinion and talking potato head nonsense from the multimedia echo chamber. That'll give you a clue.

Hint: Think about which of those two is actually a Democrat. Same ****, different election.
 
The US is at a historic point, where the concrete of plutocracy will either harden or get attacked. The two main previous inflection points in the country were FDR and Reagan.

Bernie is a third, to right the course of the nation for the public to regain control of our country from the plutocrats. He's a once in many elections chance for that.

Biden is not. Biden is a plutocrat-friendly, centrist Democrat of the sort that continues the Reagan inflection, that will simply oversee continuing the road to more inequality, not returning the government to the people.

While of course Biden would be better than any Republican, it would be terrible for the country instead of changing course with a progressive, preferably Bernie. Not to mention, Bernie will win if nominated much more likely than Biden, who will turn off much of the country similarly to Hillary.

When your whole argument is to assign a label a negative label to some one and then argue against the label, your argument is automatically a loser. You have failed to point to a single policy idea where Biden is wrong, Sanders is right. Maybe start there, since your argument is doomed to not convince anyone as it is. If your only goal is to preach to the already converted, then fine, but if you want to actually change some one who prefers Biden to Sanders, it fails, miserably.
 
If Bernie had won (been awarded?) the nom last time around, Trump would have lost.

Not necessarily. And to be fair, Bernie is not a Democrat, so who should get the party's loyalty? I like Sanders myself, but the fact the he won't join the party is important to many Democrats.

That said, if he gets the votes, he should get the nom. I'm just not at all sure he could beat Trump, not unless a couple more old-style traditional Republicans get into a primary with Trump. That would at least weaken him, as history shows.
 
Have you already forgotten than in 2016 polls, Bernie was beating Trump by 13% and Hillary was only beating Trump by 5%?



Since then, Bernie has done no wrong and Trump has turned the nation into a sty. As such, what makes you think that if Bernie is the candidate that Trump would win? What do you have to support your idea? your opinion?

Yes, admittedly, it is my opinion.

But it is shared by many people of similar minds to mine own. That is, those who are independent rather than Democrat or Republican. I simply do not see general appeal in Bernie Sanders, and I know with certainty that Trump will be able to play on Bernie's faults than make him less than appealing to the general populace.

If I am wrong, so be it. But very little will change my mind on this.

I can see my self voting for the first time for a Democrat to be rid of Trump. Bernie is among those I could simply not vote for. His ineffectiveness in Congress to ever sponsor any meaningful legislation tells me he would be a failure as a leader.
 
Are you kidding me? The move leftward away from much more heavily federally regulated and subsidized 'private' medical care insurance (PPACA) towards full blown M4A with its total elimination of 'private' medical care insurance (as well as eliminating all for-profit medical care providers) is extremely noticeable to most folks.

It may be true that Bernie has not moved left (since 2016) but certainly many more of the (20?) demorats now running for POTUS have moved left to join Bernie in calling for more "free" stuff completely provided by the federal government. To be fair (to Bernie) he did call for (33%?) state fund matching for his "free" college but I have not heard of any state fund matching requirements for M4A or reparations.

To me, all the additional people on the far left joining Bernie, means there are more votes in favor of it than before.

You have to understand that the word socialism has become a dirty word but the reality is that the kind of socialism that Bernie is supporting is not the bad kind but the kind found in Norway, Sweden, Finland, Australia and New Zealand. It is falsely named socialism but in reality is Compassionate Capitalism and that is good, not bad.

What the Democrats will be doing as soon as a nominee is named and it is someone on the far left is explaining the difference and given that the nations I named are liked and have a high happiness quotients, more and more people will warm to it. People by nature want love more than hate. Economics to most people are secondary to having a happy and loving life.
 
The base hasn't moved, but the far left of center is making more noise lately and making it seem like a shift.

If that were true then we would have far more "centrist" demorat POTUS candidates. I am anxiously awaiting hearing from a "centrist" alternative to Trump running as a demorat - yes, I would vote for such a candidate and no, I did not vote for Trump.
 
IMHO, the demorat base has moved so far left that whoever can win the DNC primary will have little chance of winning the general POTUS election.

I disagree rather strongly with this. Democrats who get media coverage are far to the left, just as, largely, republicans who get media coverage are the ones who get coverage. The media's goal is to make money by attracting viewers and page views. What does that is controversy and conflict. So moderate democrats and republicans, who are rather cordial and friendly with each other despite their disagreements, don't really get notice. Biden, who is distinctly a moderate, is doing pretty well in polls. There are still a ****load of democrats who know medicare for all, free college for all, and a 15 $ minimum wage are simply not going to happen any time soon, and want some one who can still move us in the right direction without further dividing the country.
 
You must have cut classes for the rest of that course. There a lot more to it than one cute little snippet. Nowhere in history has a socialist experiment been successful. The basic reason is that socialism stifles initiative. Pretty soon the hard workers find out that their hard work doesn't return any different than the slacker, so they stop working hard. Failure of the system is not far behind.

You seem to lack of knowledge about the type of democratic socialism Bernie proposes. You should read his website. Or just google democratic socialism. You have it confused with the formal definition of socialism.
 
You know, if policy and consistency of position were actually important to people, Elizabeth Warren would come out on top, no contest.

But oh noes, she took a DNA test and took Trump's troll bait. Now she can't be President.

I often doubt that this country is deserving of a principled and qualified leader.

I dunno. I could vote for Warren, probably, but she is still too much a Sanders type for me to be happy about her candidacy. And that has nothing to do with her DNA.
 
To me, all the additional people on the far left joining Bernie, means there are more votes in favor of it than before.

You have to understand that the word socialism has become a dirty word but the reality is that the kind of socialism that Bernie is supporting is not the bad kind but the kind found in Norway, Sweden, Finland, Australia and New Zealand. It is falsely named socialism but in reality is Compassionate Capitalism and that is good, not bad.

What the Democrats will be doing as soon as a nominee is named and it is someone on the far left is explaining the difference and given that the nations I named are liked and have a high happiness quotients, more and more people will warm to it. People by nature want love more than hate. Economics to most people are secondary to having a happy and loving life.

What, exactly, is the difference between that (bolded above) and my assertion that the demorat base is moving left?
 
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