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What's Wrong With That, Joe?

tosca1

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Yes. Trump is right. There are fine people on both sides!


What are you saying, Joe?
You're kinda like saying, just because of some Islamist terrorists......there are no fine Muslims?

Is that your mentality? Is that where you're going now?
 
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Right on!

Just as there are some bad individuals in EVERY group, so are there some good individuals in every group.
 
Joe sees no problem in removing images of anyone who advocated legal slavery from having (any continued?) public recognition. In the eyes of Joe any that dare object to the forced removal of images of Washington or Jefferson (slave holders and founding fathers of constitutional protection of slavery?) from public display (including our currency?) are (all?) "bad people" - quite comparable to Nazis or Klansmen.

Slavery was a terrible wrong and should never have been sanctioned by any government but to say that images (or statues?) of all who backed such a public policy should be removed from public spaces (or currency?) is taking the matter to an extreme. Joe is wrong that any and all who object to the forced removal of public images of past slave holders or advocates for slavery are "bad people".
 
"I think it wiser not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered."

Robert E. Lee

“As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated," Lee wrote of an 1866 proposal, "my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the Country, would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; [and] of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour."

Robert E. Lee
 
He is saying that 'the president of the United States assigned a moral equivalence between those spreading hate and those with the courage to stand against it'.

And no, those that join a Nazi rally are not fine people.
 
Right on!

Just as there are some bad individuals in EVERY group, so are there some good individuals in every group.

To be clear, there were/are good and fine people who seek to remove Confederate statues and who seek to keep them in place. That is what Trump alluded to and anyone with an IQ above room temperature knows that was the context of his remark. That said, Trump's response was slow and clumsy, but he did not say that there were fine neo-Nazis that day in C-ville.
Trump went further to clarify and name by name, hate of all kind, neo-Nazis etc. and condemn them in no uncertain terms. Again, his delivery was less than perfect, but he in no way called white supremacists and neo-Nazis "very fine people".
The context of that comment has been perverted by the MSM, Dems and all Trump's detractors to perpetuate a lie.

The clincher with Biden's announcement is that he bases his premise that Trump is an anti-Semite upon the lie told about his statement about C-ville. It's intentionally deceiving and pathetically desperate to find some grounds on which to oppose Trump.
Since Trump's election, we've seen the Left's antisemitism and anti-Israel sentiments revealed by Trump, not produced by Trump.
 
Joe Biden just called Antifa thugs courageous. Talk about moral equivalency.
 
Joe Biden just called Antifa thugs courageous.

Outrageous and disgusting.

Apparently, Vice President Biden will now say anything to make people forget many things that he has said in the past about other groups and individuals.
 
Right on!

Just as there are some bad individuals in EVERY group, so are there some good individuals in every group.

There are no good individuals standing with Nazi's, end of story.
 
"I think it wiser not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered."

Robert E. Lee

“As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated," Lee wrote of an 1866 proposal, "my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the Country, would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; [and] of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour."

Robert E. Lee
He sure knew how to talk around an issue, didn't he?
 
He sure knew how to talk around an issue, didn't he?
There was no “talking around” in Lee’s statements. He rightly and eloquently addressed the potential for civil strife by erecting monuments and other reminders glorifying a national shame.
 
Totally agree. So does Donald Trump.

Any thoughts, then, on why they love him so much? Why he employed a fellow wearing a Nazi symbol?
 
Any thoughts, then, on why they love him so much? Why he employed a fellow wearing a Nazi symbol?

What fellow?
I'm not exactly sure why the neo-Nazis/white supremacists loved Trump so much. Could be because he's an old, rich white dude who ran as a Republican. 2nd amendment and all that. But Trump has made it very clear, that he has no love for hatred, bigotry and racism of any kind, or for David Duke and his ilk. Through his personal statements and official WH statements, Trump has made this plainly clear.
In fact, those miscreants have turned on Trump, and turned to...the Democrats. Why? Because they share hatred for Israel and antisemitism. David Duke has openly praised and aligned with Tulsi Gabbard and Ilhan Omar (whom he's called "The most important member of Congress"). Louis Farrakhan has thrown his full-throated support behind Omar and lavishes praise upon her anti-Semitic, anti-Israel statements. Thus far, she's obliged him and returns the embrace.
So I don't get the continued propagation of the lie that Trump praised the neo-Nazis in C-ville and said that some were fine people. Trump said nothing of the kind and anyone with a modicum of intellectual honesty will admit they fully understand the context of his remarks.
 
What fellow?
I'm not exactly sure why the neo-Nazis/white supremacists loved Trump so much. Could be because he's an old, rich white dude who ran as a Republican. 2nd amendment and all that. But Trump has made it very clear, that he has no love for hatred, bigotry and racism of any kind, or for David Duke and his ilk. Through his personal statements and official WH statements, Trump has made this plainly clear.
In fact, those miscreants have turned on Trump, and turned to...the Democrats. Why? Because they share hatred for Israel and antisemitism. David Duke has openly praised and aligned with Tulsi Gabbard and Ilhan Omar (whom he's called "The most important member of Congress"). Louis Farrakhan has thrown his full-throated support behind Omar and lavishes praise upon her anti-Semitic, anti-Israel statements. Thus far, she's obliged him and returns the embrace.
So I don't get the continued propagation of the lie that Trump praised the neo-Nazis in C-ville and said that some were fine people. Trump said nothing of the kind and anyone with a modicum of intellectual honesty will admit they fully understand the context of his remarks.
So much complete bull**** in the above post, from beginning to end.

Trump knew who Duke is when it suited him and developed amnesia when it didn’t.

“Now I understand that David Duke has decided to join the Reform Party to support the candidacy of Pat Buchanan," Trump wrote in a statement. "So the Reform Party now includes a Klansman, Mr. Duke, a Neo-Nazi, Mr. Buchanan, and a Communist, Ms. Fulani. This is not company I wish to keep."
Donald Trump, February, 2000

"Well, just so you understand, I don't know anything about David Duke. okay? I don't know anything about what you're even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. So, I don't know.”
Donald Trump, February, 2016
 
Outrageous and disgusting.

Apparently, Vice President Biden will now say anything to make people forget many things that he has said in the past about other groups and individuals.

Are ALL Anti-fascists 'thugs'? Was the poor girl mowed down and killed in Charlottesville a 'thug', or was the retard who ran her down one? You choose.
 
So much complete bull**** in the above post, from beginning to end.

Trump knew who Duke is when it suited him and developed amnesia when it didn’t.

“Now I understand that David Duke has decided to join the Reform Party to support the candidacy of Pat Buchanan," Trump wrote in a statement. "So the Reform Party now includes a Klansman, Mr. Duke, a Neo-Nazi, Mr. Buchanan, and a Communist, Ms. Fulani. This is not company I wish to keep."
Donald Trump, February, 2000

"Well, just so you understand, I don't know anything about David Duke. okay? I don't know anything about what you're even talking about with white supremacy or white supremacists. So, I don't know.”
Donald Trump, February, 2016

So, senile, a blatant liar or both? I'll go for the latter.
 
What fellow?
I'm not exactly sure why the neo-Nazis/white supremacists loved Trump so much. Could be because he's an old, rich white dude who ran as a Republican. 2nd amendment and all that. But Trump has made it very clear, that he has no love for hatred, bigotry and racism of any kind, or for David Duke and his ilk. Through his personal statements and official WH statements, Trump has made this plainly clear.
In fact, those miscreants have turned on Trump, and turned to...the Democrats. Why? Because they share hatred for Israel and antisemitism. David Duke has openly praised and aligned with Tulsi Gabbard and Ilhan Omar (whom he's called "The most important member of Congress"). Louis Farrakhan has thrown his full-throated support behind Omar and lavishes praise upon her anti-Semitic, anti-Israel statements. Thus far, she's obliged him and returns the embrace.
So I don't get the continued propagation of the lie that Trump praised the neo-Nazis in C-ville and said that some were fine people. Trump said nothing of the kind and anyone with a modicum of intellectual honesty will admit they fully understand the context of his remarks.

Sebastian Gorka.

The Nazis get it, those who oppose Nazis get it. You don't. Any Trump condemnation of Nazis and racists, little of it that there is, is clearly forced. He is clearly a white nationalist. Everything he does re-enforces that.
 
Yes. Trump is right. There are fine people on both sides!


What are you saying, Joe?
You're kinda like saying, just because of some Islamist terrorists......there are no fine Muslims?

Is that your mentality? Is that where you're going now?

Very weak analogy.

If those "muslims" were all marching in a parade saying "Death to America"....then NO, you cannot say there were "good people" on that side. That's a far cry from saying there are not good muslims anywhere in the world. Understand?

So, I'm sorry, but you cannot say there were "good people" in a mob of angry white men screaming "Jews will NOT replace us!". That's not to say there are no good white people...only that there were certainly none in that white supremacist rally.
 
Joe sees no problem in removing images of anyone who advocated legal slavery from having (any continued?) public recognition. In the eyes of Joe any that dare object to the forced removal of images of Washington or Jefferson (slave holders and founding fathers of constitutional protection of slavery?) from public display (including our currency?) are (all?) "bad people" - quite comparable to Nazis or Klansmen.

Is that really what Joe said? Or are you, perhaps, being a little dishonest here?

I think I know the answer.

I think you do, too.

Slavery was a terrible wrong and should never have been sanctioned by any government but to say that images (or statues?) of all who backed such a public policy should be removed from public spaces (or currency?) is taking the matter to an extreme. Joe is wrong that any and all who object to the forced removal of public images of past slave holders or advocates for slavery are "bad people".

So you think there are "good people" among a crowd yelling "Jews will not replace us!", huh?

And you think Joe is the misguided one?:roll:
 
Is that really what Joe said? Or are you, perhaps, being a little dishonest here?

I think I know the answer.

I think you do, too.



So you think there are "good people" among a crowd yelling "Jews will not replace us!", huh?

And you think Joe is the misguided one?:roll:

I think that the crowd in Charlottesville objecting to removing the statues of past historical figures was not limited to Nazi's - thus some among that crowd were, indeed, good people. Even dear Hillary did not go so far as to assert that all Trump supporters were "a basket of deplorables" - she was quite content to assert that half of them were.
 
I think that the crowd in Charlottesville objecting to removing the statues of past historical figures was not limited to Nazi's - thus some among that crowd were, indeed, good people. Even dear Hillary did not go so far as to assert that all Trump supporters were "a basket of deplorables" - she was quite content to assert that half of them were.

Yes, Hillary was benevolent enough to admit that some of the deplorable were "redeemable".
 
To be clear, there were/are good and fine people who seek to remove Confederate statues and who seek to keep them in place. That is what Trump alluded to and anyone with an IQ above room temperature knows that was the context of his remark. That said, Trump's response was slow and clumsy, but he did not say that there were fine neo-Nazis that day in C-ville.

Respect your opinion, but you're wrong about one key point. Trump stated, and then repeated, that there were "very fine people" at a rally the was organized, promoted and attended by white nationalists/supremacists from across the country. The organizer (Jason Kessler) is a Neo-Nazi and prominent member of the alt-right online community. ALL of the groups involved in promoting the rally were white nationalist/white supremacist/Neo-Nazi groups. There was NOT ONE group involved in the rally that was NOT a far-right wing, openly racist organization. They marches with signs that read "Jews will not replace us", "White Lives Matter", "Blood and Soil", "Long Live the White Knights". The flags they flew were those of the Nazis and the KKK and the Confederacy... not the American Flag.

So, I'm sorry, but when Trump stated there were "fine people on both sides", he was absolutely saying there were fine people in a rally created ENTIRELY by (and for) white supremacists. No amount of semantics can obscure that reality. And his response wasn't simply "clumsy". It was a blatantly false equivalence between racists...and those who oppose racism. And there is absolutely no equivalence between the two.

Trump went further to clarify and name by name, hate of all kind, neo-Nazis etc. and condemn them in no uncertain terms. Again, his delivery was less than perfect, but he in no way called white supremacists and neo-Nazis "very fine people".The context of that comment has been perverted by the MSM, Dems and all Trump's detractors to perpetuate a lie.

Sorry, you just cannot say that with any credibility. That's absolutely what Trump did. You cannot change his words. Neither can you pretend to know what he "really" meant. There was only one kind of person out there marching and chanting racist slogans, and holding up racist signs and symbols. And unless you can find some examples of non-racist organizations directly involved with the Tiki Torch carriers at that event....you need to stop pretending you understand the "context" when what you're really doing is projecting your feelings into Trump's head. The so-called "MSM" got it right. And, once again, you've placed yourself in the position of being an apologist for Trump's racism and bigotry.

The clincher with Biden's announcement is that he bases his premise that Trump is an anti-Semite upon the lie told about his statement about C-ville. It's intentionally deceiving and pathetically desperate to find some grounds on which to oppose Trump.
:lamo
That's silly...because it wasn't a lie. Unless, of course, we're talking about the alternative universe of right wing "news", where lies are facts and facts are lies. Is that what you meant? Because in the real world, most people have seen and read about the Unite the Right rally and tragedy. And the only people who still think like you are the blind Trump apologists and the racists/bigots among us.

Since Trump's election, we've seen the Left's antisemitism and anti-Israel sentiments revealed by Trump, not produced by Trump.
:lamo
Only certified wingnuts equate anti-semitism with opposition to ANY foreign policy issue related to Israel. The reason 70% of American Jewish voters oppose Trump is because they understand this, too.
 
I think that the crowd in Charlottesville objecting to removing the statues of past historical figures was not limited to Nazi's - thus some among that crowd were, indeed, good people.

Funny, but if you paid attention to the rally, you noticed that NOT ONCE did the statues come up in the rhetoric of the Unite the Right marchers. Not once. So let's try to be more careful about not allowing our wishes and feelings to dictate our perceptions of events and reality, please.

And again, EVERY SINGLE group that organized, promoted and participated in the Unite the Right march was directly affiliated with white nationalist/white supremacist/Neo-Nazi causes. Every single one. The organizer promoted the rally EXCLUSIVELY on those websites and social media links. So stop pretending it was what you WISH it was...and start dealing with REALITY. It doesn't persuade anyone. It only makes you people seem like one of them (or one of their sympathizers).

Enough with the Alternative Universe of the FauxNews crowd, please! Enough.
 
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