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The third article of impeachment of Richard Nixon -- relevant NOW!

RAMOSS said:
In other words, Trump is doing a blatantly obvious impeachable offense, and loyalty to the party is more to you than to the country?
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A blatantly obvious impeachable offense that apparently Mueller didn't find after 2 years of investigation, hmmm!
Your “Low Attention” warning lamp has been on for a few days
 
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slick said:
I blatantly obvious impeachable offense that apparently Mueller didn't find after 2 years of investigation, hmmm!
Your “Low Attention” warning lamp has been on for a few days
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You do realize when it comes to the Mueller report, he laid out a case of obstruction of justice, but was starting from the viewpoint a sitting president can't be indicted.

Obstruction of Justice in the Mueller Report: A Heat Map - Lawfare

Mueller Report: Law Professor On Prosecuting An Obstruction Of Justice Case : NPR

'Start Here': No collusion, but a case for obstruction of justice in Robert Mueller's report - ABC News
 
ajn678 said:
Isn't it the IRS that is failing to submit them?
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Trump directed his man at the IRS not to submit. He also has Barr telling people at the DOJ not to testify. He's clearly still committing obstruction.

If congress calls you to testify that's a court summons. You can't just say No.
 
OscarLevant said:
Your sophomoric characterizations aside,

But they did not, ahead of time, know that Nixon was involved or obstructed justice. The tapes proved it.

But, of course, the opposite outcome was possible.


Similarly, they did not, ahead of time, know whether or not there was collusion by Trump ( er..,.conspiracy).

ANd that outcome came to Trump's favor.

Either outcome means the investigation was successful. Mueller was not out to get anyone, he was out to either exonerate, or provide to congress a roadmap for impeachment, as Mueller knew in advance that he could not indict. He did both, and he did so with integrity, not allowing himself to be goaded by the president by his incessant defamation and attacks on Mueller and the investigation.

Trump was exonerated of "conspiracy" but was not exonerated for obstruction.

Mueller did not pout.

Mueller is one strong son of a bitch.
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Bull****.

Mueller had only one mandate (that we know of). That was to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election and whether Trump was involved in such interference. Later, for reasons yet unknown, Mueller was charged with investigating Trump for obstruction of justice.

Mueller NEVER had the mission of exonerating Trump. And Mueller absolutely had no mandate to provide Congress with a road map for anything. The fact that he took those tasks upon himself...without authorization...means that Mueller and his team were working with the very people who were trying to prevent Trump from becoming President and, when he became President anyway, the very people who were...and still are...trying to end his Presidency.

Mueller is just as corrupt as the Obama administration pukes who broke the law in their attempts...and failures...to prevent Trump from kicking Hill-dog to the curb.

Mueller is going to need a lawyer.
 
Mycroft said:
Bull****.

Mueller had only one mandate (that we know of). That was to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election and whether Trump was involved in such interference. Later, for reasons yet unknown, Mueller was charged with investigating Trump for obstruction of justice.

Mueller NEVER had the mission of exonerating Trump. And Mueller absolutely had no mandate to provide Congress with a road map for anything. The fact that he took those tasks upon himself...without authorization...means that Mueller and his team were working with the very people who were trying to prevent Trump from becoming President and, when he became President anyway, the very people who were...and still are...trying to end his Presidency.

Mueller is just as corrupt as the Obama administration pukes who broke the law in their attempts...and failures...to prevent Trump from kicking Hill-dog to the curb.

Mueller is going to need a lawyer.
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Re-read the special counsel appointment memo :lamo
 
slick said:
Kristol was part of the NeoCON cabal at PNAC who pushed for the series of wars that have laid waste to the Middle East.

Kristol’s desire for war with Iran, like a depraved sociopath used his influence in the Bush administration to advance an
agenda for US global domination, enforced by unilateral military interventions.”

Kristol just announced he, George Will, & the fat guy from Red State and the Weekly Standard will all endorse mayor Pete.
I guess he's trying to intrude into Democratic politics now that he's a pundit on MSNBC a requim for those who are
hoping angry that they have zero influence in republican circles & his supposed conservative political magazine went belly up!
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Your post has zero to do with the OP, care to addrees it without deflecting. Why is Trump being held to a different standard than Nixon, its a fair question.
 
Mycroft said:
From your article:



So...let the House impeach him...if they have the balls.
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Why doesn’t he just produce the documents? I thought he was going to drain the swap? Why is he hiding documents including his tax returns if he has nothing to hide?

Conservatives don’t trust government. They believe in transparency because government cannot be trusted.

You’re no longer a conservative if you trust Trump. That’s a faith. It’s the faith of a cult member.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
RAMOSS said:
Yet, the information relayed in the tweet is factually correct. This is the article 3 in it's entirety.
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Yawn. It's common for the executive branch to drag its feet, claim executive privilege, and not comply with Congressional subpoenas. In case you and Mr. Kristol have forgotten, more than once Obama was criticized for his claims of executive privilege and he refusal to comply with congressional committee investigations. For example, the Obama administration stonewalled and slow-walked “Fast and Furious” document demands from Congress. The result was that former Attorney General Eric Holder was held in contempt of Congress, which came to naught because the Obama Justice Department refused to submit the case to a grand jury (even though Judge Amy Berman saw no legal merit in the stonewalling). Similiarly, Bush and Clinton attempted to ignore Congressional orders, and both lost.

The trope is especially stupid in that the Trump administration was totally cooperative in requests for information in the investigation (implicitly more so than usual for executives) and claimed zero executive privilage.

If Kristol had bothered to be a tad more reflective he not only would have noted prior experiences of Presidents, he would have also considered that the articles of impeachment are a prosecutor's political document - every possible act of Nixon that could be construed as unworthy was thrown in...EVEN if such acts are not unusual for others.

Whatever the merits of impeaching Trump, THAT ploy is lame.
 
OscarLevant said:
Your sophomoric characterizations aside,

But they did not, ahead of time, know that Nixon was involved or obstructed justice. The tapes proved it.

But, of course, the opposite outcome was possible.


Similarly, they did not, ahead of time, know whether or not there was collusion by Trump ( er..,.conspiracy).

ANd that outcome came to Trump's favor.

Either outcome means the investigation was successful. Mueller was not out to get anyone, he was out to either exonerate, or provide to congress a roadmap for impeachment, as Mueller knew in advance that he could not indict. He did both, and he did so with integrity, not allowing himself to be goaded by the president by his incessant defamation and attacks on Mueller and the investigation.

Trump was exonerated of "conspiracy" but was not exonerated for obstruction.

Mueller did not pout.

Mueller is one strong son of a bitch.
Click to expand...

Mueller is one Republican I would vote for if he chose to run for public office. The Justice Dept. is lucky to have him.
 
Deuce said:
Re-read the special counsel appointment memo :lamo
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I swear Trump supporters only read bullet points put on screen by Faux News.
 
Mycroft said:
So...there you go. He didn't refuse. He's taking it to court.
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He refused. That’s why he has to take it to court. Again you lie.
 
Mycroft said:
Bull****.

Mueller had only one mandate (that we know of). That was to investigate Russian interference in the 2016 election and whether Trump was involved in such interference. Later, for reasons yet unknown, Mueller was charged with investigating Trump for obstruction of justice.

Mueller NEVER had the mission of exonerating Trump. And Mueller absolutely had no mandate to provide Congress with a road map for anything. The fact that he took those tasks upon himself...without authorization...means that Mueller and his team were working with the very people who were trying to prevent Trump from becoming President and, when he became President anyway, the very people who were...and still are...trying to end his Presidency.

Mueller is just as corrupt as the Obama administration pukes who broke the law in their attempts...and failures...to prevent Trump from kicking Hill-dog to the curb.

Mueller is going to need a lawyer.
Click to expand...



Mycroft, you belong on the CT forum.

Mueller does not need a lawyer, nor is he corrupt, you're smokin' something.

Declinations (exoneration) and prosecutions are functions of scope (of mandate), they are the default objectives in all investigations, to either clear or indict, the target(s). Scope ( of mandate ) has to do with the type of investigation(s) that is being assigned to the SC.

The "mandate" is not about who gets the report, file that in the self-evident truth file. But what of it? To say so is meaningless.

All SC investigations are declinations decisions or prosecution decisions. IN this special case, because an indictment of the prez is not possible, it shifts to declination or roadmap for impeachment by Congress. That was the determination by Mueller. HE did not state it, specifically, but if you read the report, one must ask oneself, "who is this report communicating to?". If it is to the general public, and all of the A) B) C) components of obstruction law, as they relate to each obstruction item described ( and there are many ) this type of detailed description would not be necessary. But, if it were for congress, information the can use to make impeachment determinations, then it makes sense.
Both were provided in volume's 1, and II, respectively.

Declination is an exoneration ( more or less, depending ). This is the default to execute the mandate,i.,e determine if decline or prosecute.

Therefore, to assert "Mueller NEVER had the mission of exonerating Trump", is a pointless statement.

Also, those who assert "the Mueller investigation was a failure", fail to grasp the simple fact that all investigations start with probable cause, then an investigation to determine declination or prosecution.

Either outcome means the investigation was successful.

Those who say "Mueller is out to get Trump", are dullards and do not understand what an investigation is for.
 
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maxparrish said:
Yawn. It's common for the executive branch to drag its feet, claim executive privilege, and not comply with Congressional subpoenas. In case you and Mr. Kristol have forgotten, more than once Obama was criticized for his claims of executive privilege and he refusal to comply with congressional committee investigations. For example, the Obama administration stonewalled and slow-walked “Fast and Furious” document demands from Congress. The result was that former Attorney General Eric Holder was held in contempt of Congress, which came to naught because the Obama Justice Department refused to submit the case to a grand jury (even though Judge Amy Berman saw no legal merit in the stonewalling). Similiarly, Bush and Clinton attempted to ignore Congressional orders, and both lost.

The trope is especially stupid in that the Trump administration was totally cooperative in requests for information in the investigation (implicitly more so than usual for executives) and claimed zero executive privilage.
Click to expand...

I wouldnt call 10 detailed paths to obstruction, Trump defaming Mueller every day , "witch hunt" yadda yadda during the years of the investigation, etc etc etc, as "fully cooperating".

If Kristol had bothered to be a tad more reflective he not only would have noted prior experiences of Presidents, he would have also considered that the articles of impeachment are a prosecutor's political document - every possible act of Nixon that could be construed as unworthy was thrown in...EVEN if such acts are not unusual for others.

Whatever the merits of impeaching Trump, THAT ploy is lame.
Click to expand...


Yes, note that Obama did not succeed, they had to provide docs.


Someone ought to mention that to Trump. He's stonewalling, just buying time. In time, he will have to produce the documents.
 
Fruityfact said:
He's a birther first, and American last.
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Trump began his political career with a lie, Obamas birth certificate. And the lies just multiply.
 
uptower said:
Trump directed his man at the IRS not to submit. He also has Barr telling people at the DOJ not to testify. He's clearly still committing obstruction.

If congress calls you to testify that's a court summons. You can't just say No.
Click to expand...

There is no objection to these guys testifying.
The objection is that the committee is not permitting their agency attorneys to be present.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
Why doesn’t he just produce the documents? I thought he was going to drain the swap? Why is he hiding documents including his tax returns if he has nothing to hide?

Conservatives don’t trust government. They believe in transparency because government cannot be trusted.

You’re no longer a conservative if you trust Trump. That’s a faith. It’s the faith of a cult member.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Trump has told you time and again that he may declassify and release the documents when the time is right. Yet, you continue to act as if you don't know things. (see my sig)

Trump has already drained at least some of the swamp. Just look at how many career DOJ and FBI swamp dwellers have retired, resigned or been fired. When Trump declassifies and releases the documents, many more...and not just from the DOJ and FBI...will follow. Some may even end up in jail.

Trump isn't hiding anything by not releasing his tax returns. He is refusing to give his opponents stuff they can spin against him.
 
Mycroft said:
From your article:



So...let the House impeach him...if they have the balls.
Click to expand...

Don't worry...they will...when they are ready.

The narrative about the negative impact on the GOP for impeaching Clinton is a false narrative on so many fronts its not even funny.

It might not matter. the Hearings leading up to Impeaching are going to leave DonDon beaten and battered. Could not happen to a nicer guy.
 
OscarLevant said:
Mycroft, you belong on the CT forum.

Mueller does not need a lawyer, nor is he corrupt, you're smokin' something.

Declinations (exoneration) and prosecutions are functions of scope (of mandate), they are the default objectives in all investigations, to either clear or indict, the target(s). Scope ( of mandate ) has to do with the type of investigation(s) that is being assigned to the SC.

The "mandate" is not about who gets the report, file that in the self-evident truth file. But what of it? To say so is meaningless.

All SC investigations are declinations decisions or prosecution decisions. IN this special case, because an indictment of the prez is not possible, it shifts to declination or roadmap for impeachment by Congress. That was the determination by Mueller. HE did not state it, specifically, but if you read the report, one must ask oneself, "who is this report communicating to?". If it is to the general public, and all of the A) B) C) components of obstruction law, as they relate to each obstruction item described ( and there are many ) this type of detailed description would not be necessary. But, if it were for congress, information the can use to make impeachment determinations, then it makes sense.
Both were provided in volume's 1, and II, respectively.

Declination is an exoneration ( more or less, depending ). This is the default to execute the mandate,i.,e determine if decline or prosecute.

Therefore, to assert "Mueller NEVER had the mission of exonerating Trump", is a pointless statement.

Also, those who assert "the Mueller investigation was a failure", fail to grasp the simple fact that all investigations start with probable cause, then an investigation to determine declination or prosecution.

Either outcome means the investigation was successful.

Those who say "Mueller is out to get Trump", are dullards and do not understand what an investigation is for.
Click to expand...

1. You should learn the definition of "exonerate". It doesn't mean what you think it does. It has nothing to do with "declination".

2. Mueller is the one who brought up the issue of exoneration even though he never had a mandate to exonerate anyone.

3. Again, Mueller was never given a mandate to provide Congress with any kind of road map. The fact that Mueller decided to do this means he took matters in his own hands. He may be required to answer to that.

4. As far as "who is the report communicating to"...a better question is: Who SHOULD the report be communicating to? The public? No. The public didn't give Mueller his job. Congress? No. Congress didn't give Mueller his job. The DOJ AG? BINGO!!! That's who Mueller should have been communicating to. Instead, Mueller communicated his report to anyone who hates Trump and specifically to those who would use their governmental powers to continue his...and their...harassment of the President and everyone around him.

5. And lastly, just to be clear, I have never asserted that "the Mueller investigation was a failure". In fact, I count it as a huge success...at least in terms of the objectives those who started it and those who conducted it had in mind...which had nothing to do with justice.
 
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