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Bernie wants to give prisoners the right to vote

trouble13 said:
Well said

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Trouble13:

You quoted me before I finished my editing and updating. But thank you nonetheless.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.
 
PoppyCock said:
Inmates voting, 16 YOs voting, Illegals voting.
They all tend to vote democrat, no wonder it's being promoted.
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Many curious aspects to this proposal. Some random thoughts:

- The opinionated Democrats don't mind telling you of their disdain for the voting by the less educated in the more conservative parts of the country while apparently finding something admirable in voting by murderers, rapists, terrorists, and muggers who are even less educated than the law abiding citizens of those states.

- The notion that the right to vote is so fundamental that it cannot be denied to anyone, is a particularly liberal one. If so, is it more fundamental than being deprived of life (capital punishment), personal freedom (liberty), or property (asset seizure) … some of it for a lifetime? Are we to believe that denial of a ballot for the school board is more oppressive and more of a "fundamental" attack on a person's liberty than that of the execution chamber or prison cell? Isn't that more than a little daffy?

- Will the day come that a prisoners execution will be "stayed" because he wishes to cast a ballot?

- The reason prisoners are denied their basic personal and political rights while in prison is because it is a punishment. If you can punish a prisoner by stripping him of his dignity, making him a convict, and denying all sorts of freedom of space, labor, movement, conduct, and privacy then the denial of their right to vote is also a punishment. There is nothing "special" about it.

- Clearly Sanders, among others, don't like the idea of any punishment that denies them added political power; support of "voting" for prisoners or felons is for the sake of political ambition, not because it is something so "fundamental" that it cannot be denied.
 
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maxparrish said:
Many curious aspects to this proposal. Some random thoughts:

- The opinionated Democrats don't mind telling you of their disdain for the voting by the less educated in the more conservative parts of the country while apparently finding something admirable in voting by murderers, rapists, terrorists, and muggers who are even less educated than the law abiding citizens of those states.

- The notion that the right to vote is so fundamental that it cannot be denied to anyone, is a particularly liberal one. If so, is it more fundamental than being deprived of life (capital punishment), personal freedom (liberty), or property (asset seizure) … some of it for a lifetime? Are we to believe that denial of a ballot for the school board is more oppressive and more of a "fundamental" attack on a person's liberty than that of the execution chamber or prison cell? Isn't that more than a little daffy?

- Will the day come that a prisoners execution will be "stayed" because he wishes to cast a ballot?

- The reason prisoners are denied their basic personal and political rights while in prison is because it is a punishment. If you can punish a prisoner by stripping him of his dignity, making him a convict, and denying all sorts of freedom of space, labor, movement, conduct, and privacy then the denial of their right to vote is also a punishment. There is nothing "special" about it.

- Clearly Sanders, among others, don't like the idea of any punishment that denies them added political power; support of "voting" for prisoners or felons is for the sake of political ambition, not because it is something so "fundamental" that it cannot be denied.
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Excellent analysis. I await any rebuttal.
 
Felis Leo said:
Because people who betray their duty to society and break the social contract by consciously harming society and breaking the law should not have a say in how society is run while they are repaying their debt to it.
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Why?

....
 
Hell, why stop at inmates or 16 YOs? Why deny even younger children?
 
maxparrish said:
Many curious aspects to this proposal. Some random thoughts:

- The opinionated Democrats don't mind telling you of their disdain for the voting by the less educated in the more conservative parts of the country while apparently finding something admirable in voting by murderers, rapists, terrorists, and muggers who are even less educated than the law abiding citizens of those states.

- The notion that the right to vote is so fundamental that it cannot be denied to anyone, is a particularly liberal one. If so, is it more fundamental than being deprived of life (capital punishment), personal freedom (liberty), or property (asset seizure) … some of it for a lifetime? Are we to believe that denial of a ballot for the school board is more oppressive and more of a "fundamental" attack on a person's liberty than that of the execution chamber or prison cell? Isn't that more than a little daffy?

- Will the day come that a prisoners execution will be "stayed" because he wishes to cast a ballot?

- The reason prisoners are denied their basic personal and political rights while in prison is because it is a punishment. If you can punish a prisoner by stripping him of his dignity, making him a convict, and denying all sorts of freedom of space, labor, movement, conduct, and privacy then the denial of their right to vote is also a punishment. There is nothing "special" about it.

- Clearly Sanders, among others, don't like the idea of any punishment that denies them added political power; support of "voting" for prisoners or felons is for the sake of political ambition, not because it is something so "fundamental" that it cannot be denied.
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You touch on something that I think is important and should be addressed. I'm not sure you would consider me a liberal in the modern sense of the word but using a more classical definition I might very well fit the definition. In either case my opinion is my own not what a party told me I'm suppose to believe.

I don't view voting as a right as much as it is an obligation we have to society. It is a tool we are empowered with to protect ourselves from government tyranny. Those who govern us are accountable to us. Voting is a peaceful way to exert that power. The alternative to that is military revolutions.

When the government commandeers that power from any individual it's an assault on all of us. I'm not saying there is never a good reason to take away someone's ability to vote but it should only be done after very careful consideration. The government needs to provide good reason before I'm agreeable to surrender any of the tools of self empowerment that the constitution is meant to protect.

You may disagree with me but I think it's foolish to surrender such an important power to the government because you violated a law. Maybe if the law is voter fraud I could see a reasonable case for taking that power away from a person. If the purpose is to punish the individual I think you have done more harm to society than you did good for it.



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PoppyCock said:
Hell, why stop at inmates or 16 YOs? Why deny even younger children?
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Please don't do what your doing. I already had one person try to make the thread about gun rights. Stay on topic. This thread is meant to address the question of if we should allow people in jail the right to vote while incarcerated.

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Democrats do NOT have disdain for low-education voters. They have disdain for those voters being manipulated and misled, for their poor choices at times, and sometimes (but a lot less than many think - see the Fox audience cheer for Bernie?) for different views, but passionately are for their right to vote, unlike the Republicans who suppress millions of the Democrats' votes.
 
Craig234 said:
Democrats do NOT have disdain for low-education voters. They have disdain for those voters being manipulated and misled, for their poor choices at times, and sometimes (but a lot less than many think - see the Fox audience cheer for Bernie?) for different views, but passionately are for their right to vote, unlike the Republicans who suppress millions of the Democrats' votes.
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Oh, the tired old racist argument that thinking minorities are incapable of the simple task of obtaining ID. It's a wonder how minorities manage the daunting obstacle of getting a drivers license or a job, or loan, or buy age restricted products and a host of other daily task, requiring ID.
 
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