• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Conservatives who aren't Christian

In America, you're less likely to find a conservative that isn't religious because of the way our main conservative party is. If you're not religious, the Republican party should appear nearly as bad as the Muslim extremists to you. I find it odd that people can put one, singular issue, like guns or taxes, over the entire rest of the Republican platform, especially considering they're not even super helpful on those issues either.

Other countries, where the "conservative" party looks more like our Democratic party, you'd probably be able to find tons. American politics is heavily skewed to the right, and has been for decades.
 
Chomsky said:
Sounds like maybe you need to find a Libertarian! ;)
Click to expand...

Hehe.

I used to be really into libertarianism but one of their ideas, which was free, global trade put me off.
 
Wan said:
Hehe.

I used to be really into libertarianism but one of their ideas, which was free, global trade put me off.
Click to expand...

I am against that general sentiment of libertarians myself, but the party fits me better than others.

Does anyone here claim to agree with 100% of any party's platform?
 
Lord of Planar said:
I am against that general sentiment of libertarians myself, but the party fits me better than others.

Does anyone here claim to agree with 100% of any party's platform?
Click to expand...

Does this mean you reject all labels?
 
Wan said:
Sounds like you are a classic liberal.
Click to expand...
Ah, interesting. Thanks for your opinion, here.

The thing is, I do believe in reasonable social programs, and if by "Classical Liberal" we reference Libertarians, they'd never along go with it!

But I did have a brief Libertarian phase in my early twenties, though I look back on it as my being an unknowingly somewhat selfish young man, lacking in appropriate compassion at the time. I wasn't really a jerk, but I had a dog-eat-dog "survival of the fittest" attitude that is not uncommon among singly guys in their early twenties. I needed to grow-up.

Unfortunately DP does not have a "social democrat" lean available, so I make do with "libertarian-left", even though I quickly lost my taste for Libertarians and now look at them with a bit of disdain.
 
Chomsky said:
Ah, interesting. Thanks for your opinion, here.

The thing is, I do believe in reasonable social programs, and if by "Classical Liberal" we reference Libertarians, they'd never along go with it!

But I did have a brief Libertarian phase in my early twenties, though I look back on it as my being an unknowingly somewhat selfish young man, lacking in appropriate compassion at the time. I wasn't really a jerk, but I had a dog-eat-dog "survival of the fittest" attitude that is not uncommon among singly guys in their early twenties. I needed to grow-up.

Unfortunately DP does not have a "social democrat" lean available, so I make do with "libertarian-left", even though I quickly lost my taste for Libertarians and now look at them with a bit of disdain.
Click to expand...

I consider libertarianism to be a less extreme version of anarchism.
 
Wan said:
I consider libertarianism to be a less extreme version of anarchism.
Click to expand...
Hah!

I always heard,

"Libertarianism is for those that don't have the guts to be an Anarchist!"

:mrgreen:
 
Wan said:
Does this mean you reject all labels?
Click to expand...

Yes and no. I am registered "not affiliated." However, of the labels out there, I fit libertarian more than any other I am versed on.
 
I like the libertarian perspective on individual rights. The government shouldn't really **** with you, as long as you're not affecting anyone else. The problem is they don't allow for the fact that a lot of people and corporations are going to break that social contract, and we have to have laws to handle that. Companies didn't look out for their employees before we had laws for it. They didn't look out for the environment before we had laws for it. It's an issue of being realistic, and you have to have clear boundaries and laws to protect as many people as possible. That's the purpose of government.

When I was younger, I considered myself an anarchist, because I wasn't really familiar with libertarianism, which would've probably been more accurate. I was also raised in the South in a very conservative Christian home, so it was a bit of a journey moving out of that.
 
Chomsky said:
Ah, interesting. Thanks for your opinion, here.

The thing is, I do believe in reasonable social programs, and if by "Classical Liberal" we reference Libertarians, they'd never along go with it!

But I did have a brief Libertarian phase in my early twenties, though I look back on it as my being an unknowingly somewhat selfish young man, lacking in appropriate compassion at the time. I wasn't really a jerk, but I had a dog-eat-dog "survival of the fittest" attitude that is not uncommon among singly guys in their early twenties. I needed to grow-up.

Unfortunately DP does not have a "social democrat" lean available, so I make do with "libertarian-left", even though I quickly lost my taste for Libertarians and now look at them with a bit of disdain.
Click to expand...

Libertarianism isn't "dog eat dog."

From the Libertarian Platform:

Individuals are inherently free to make choices for themselves and must accept responsibility for the consequences of the choices they make. Our support of an individual’s right to make choices in life does not mean that we necessarily approve or disapprove of those choices. No individual, group, or government may rightly initiate force against any other individual, group, or government. Libertarians reject the notion that groups have inherent rights. We support the rights of the smallest minority, the individual.

-----

Government force must be limited to the protection of the rights of individuals to life, liberty, and property, and governments must never be permitted to violate these rights. Laws should be limited in their application to violations of the rights of others through force or fraud, or to deliberate actions that place others involuntarily at significant risk of harm. Therefore, we favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes” without victims, such as gambling, the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes, and consensual transactions involving sexual services. We support restitution to the victim to the fullest degree possible at the expense of the criminal or the negligent wrongdoer. The constitutional rights of the criminally accused, including due process, a speedy trial, legal counsel, trial by jury, and the legal presumption of innocence until proven guilty, must be preserved. We assert the common-law right of juries to judge not only the facts but also the justice of the law. We oppose the prosecutorial practice of “over-charging” in criminal prosecutions so as to avoid jury trials by intimidating defendants into accepting plea bargains.
​

Effectively, a persons rights end when they impose on other people's rights. If you read the whole of the platform, that becomes apparent.
 
nekrodev said:
I like the libertarian perspective on individual rights. The government shouldn't really **** with you, as long as you're not affecting anyone else. The problem is they don't allow for the fact that a lot of people and corporations are going to break that social contract, and we have to have laws to handle that. Companies didn't look out for their employees before we had laws for it. They didn't look out for the environment before we had laws for it. It's an issue of being realistic, and you have to have clear boundaries and laws to protect as many people as possible. That's the purpose of government.

When I was younger, I considered myself an anarchist, because I wasn't really familiar with libertarianism, which would've probably been more accurate. I was also raised in the South in a very conservative Christian home, so it was a bit of a journey moving out of that.
Click to expand...

Do you think libertarians would disapprove of laws that protect the individual rights contract from being broke?
 
Lord of Planar said:
Do you think libertarians would disapprove of laws that protect the individual rights contract from being broke?
Click to expand...

In many cases, I've heard people who claim to be libertarian say that, almost exactly, yeah. People try to take the "small government" thing way too far.
 
nekrodev said:
In many cases, I've heard people who claim to be libertarian say that, almost exactly, yeah. People try to take the "small government" thing way too far.
Click to expand...

The problem is that all laws I have seen to prevent social injustice take it to far, and end up infringing on someone. The hard part would be to find a law that is just for everyone.
 
Lord of Planar said:
The problem is that all laws I have seen to prevent social injustice take it to far, and end up infringing on someone. The hard part would be to find a law that is just for everyone.
Click to expand...

Literally impossible, we just have to balance as best we can, which is what we generally try to do. Obviously, we've missed a bunch, and we have a lot to work on, but I don't know that we'd even agree on the good and the bad so far, given our previous exchanges.
 
Wan said:
Hello. Seems to me most conservatives are adherents of the Christian faith. Of course, there is nothing wrong with that. But I wonder if it's possible to be a conservative without being Christian. I know I am such a person, and sometimes I feel I am the only one.

Also, most on the Left are atheist or agnostic. But I have encountered quite a few people who lean left who are also Christian.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

I beleive there are tens of thousands of conservatives who are not Christian but much fewer fundamental Bible-believing Christians who are not conservative.
 
Wan said:
Hello. Seems to me most conservatives are adherents of the Christian faith. Of course, there is nothing wrong with that. But I wonder if it's possible to be a conservative without being Christian. I know I am such a person, and sometimes I feel I am the only one.

Also, most on the Left are atheist or agnostic. But I have encountered quite a few people who lean left who are also Christian.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

See the attached documents...Most conservatives and most liberals in the US are Christians.
 

Attachments

  • Liberal Religiosity.jpg
    Liberal Religiosity.jpg
    56.8 KB · Views: 56
  • Conserevative Religiosity.jpg
    Conserevative Religiosity.jpg
    70.8 KB · Views: 56
Xelor said:
See the attached documents...Most conservatives and most liberals in the US are Christians.
Click to expand...

There are several problems with labeling people according to religion. For example, this study does not consider Mormons to be Christian, even though most Mormons probably consider themselves to be Christian. I am a fundamental Bible-believing Christian. We don't even have a spot on the chart for us.
 
marke said:
There are several problems with labeling people according to religion. For example, this study does not consider Mormons to be Christian, even though most Mormons probably consider themselves to be Christian. I am a fundamental Bible-believing Christian. We don't even have a spot on the chart for us.
Click to expand...

are you really that bad at reading?
 
marke said:
There are several problems with labeling people according to religion. For example, this study does not consider Mormons to be Christian, even though most Mormons probably consider themselves to be Christian. I am a fundamental Bible-believing Christian. We don't even have a spot on the chart for us.
Click to expand...

In this thread, at this juncture, I really don't give a damn about those problems, their solutions or implications....The OP asked a question, and I pointed him to content that directly addresses it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom