[W:22]Trump and Republicans Seek to Turn the Tables in Post-Mueller Washington

WASHINGTON — President Trump and his Republican allies went on the offensive on Monday, vowing to pursue and even punish those responsible for the Russia investigation now that the special counsel has wrapped up without implicating him or his campaign in a criminal conspiracy to influence the 2016 election.


Mr. Trump, grim faced and simmering with anger, denounced adversaries who have pounded him for two years over Russian election interference, calling them “treasonous” people who are guilty of “evil” deeds and should be investigated themselves. “Those people will certainly be looked at,” he said.


On Capitol Hill, the Republican chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee announced he would do just that while also calling for a new special counsel to look at the origins of the last one. White House officials and Republican lawmakers demanded the resignation of a Democratic committee chairman investigating the Russia matter, and Mr. Trump’s re-election campaign lobbied television networks to blackball Democrats who advanced the collusion theory.


The assertive posture indicated that despite initial calls by Republican leaders to move on after the investigation by the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, the president and his supporters were intent on turning the tables on his foes. While Democrats saw the actions as revenge, Mr. Trump’s defenders said they wanted accountability for a “witch hunt” that has consumed half of his term.

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Verax said:

New York Times



This paints a pretty clear picture of the direction Trump and the Republican leadership wants to go. For anyone who thinks Democrats shouldn't impeach because it would be too dangerous politically, what do you think is going to happen if we don't? What's going to happen if we try and "heal the country" and be forgiving? Trump is going to hammer us with lies and bs and put Democrats back on the defensive.

You can't back down from a bully. You have to hit them with all you got until they are no longer a threat. This idea that we "got him" and just need to coast until 2020 is folly. If we're not going to impeach then we damn well better continue the "witch hunt" until he's out of office because we can't become complacent one way or the other.

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Verax said:

New York Times



This paints a pretty clear picture of the direction Trump and the Republican leadership wants to go. For anyone who thinks Democrats shouldn't impeach because it would be too dangerous politically, what do you think is going to happen if we don't? What's going to happen if we try and "heal the country" and be forgiving? Trump is going to hammer us with lies and bs and put Democrats back on the defensive.

You can't back down from a bully. You have to hit them with all you got until they are no longer a threat. This idea that we "got him" and just need to coast until 2020 is folly. If we're not going to impeach then we damn well better continue the "witch hunt" until he's out of office because we can't become complacent one way or the other.

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Verax said:

New York Times



This paints a pretty clear picture of the direction Trump and the Republican leadership wants to go. For anyone who thinks Democrats shouldn't impeach because it would be too dangerous politically, what do you think is going to happen if we don't? What's going to happen if we try and "heal the country" and be forgiving? Trump is going to hammer us with lies and bs and put Democrats back on the defensive.

You can't back down from a bully. You have to hit them with all you got until they are no longer a threat. This idea that we "got him" and just need to coast until 2020 is folly. If we're not going to impeach then we damn well better continue the "witch hunt" until he's out of office because we can't become complacent one way or the other.

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MovingPictures said:

I'm conflicted.

Back in 1998 the Republicans said that one lie to a grand jury was sufficient to impeach Bill Clinton. They didn't care there wasn't public or bipartisan support for the measure, nor did they care they didn't have anywhere near enough votes in the Senate for removal.

Nope. They just went for impeachment just so they could say "the president was impeached", and contrary to popular thought that it hurt Republicans, it actually cast a dark cloud over the next election for the next Democratic candidate for the WH (Al Gore), and it was a factor in Gore's loss back in 2000.

There is far more damning evidence against Trump and a larger portion of the public that supports impeachment than in 1998.

I'm not saying Democrats must go all the way with impeachment. They can and should go for at least censure. But to do nothing in response to all these revelations (beyond Mueller as well), the Democrats will set a precedent for every Republican president to engage in these corrupt tactics; just as they set one when they allowed Gingrich to play hostage games with government spending, and that became normalized until just recently.

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Verax said:

New York Times



This paints a pretty clear picture of the direction Trump and the Republican leadership wants to go. For anyone who thinks Democrats shouldn't impeach because it would be too dangerous politically, what do you think is going to happen if we don't? What's going to happen if we try and "heal the country" and be forgiving? Trump is going to hammer us with lies and bs and put Democrats back on the defensive.

You can't back down from a bully. You have to hit them with all you got until they are no longer a threat. This idea that we "got him" and just need to coast until 2020 is folly. If we're not going to impeach then we damn well better continue the "witch hunt" until he's out of office because we can't become complacent one way or the other.

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"How the hell did we lose to Trump?" "What went wrong?" "What is it about our message that failed to resonate?" "What do we have to do to win back the public trust in 2020?"

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Verax said:

New York Times



This paints a pretty clear picture of the direction Trump and the Republican leadership wants to go. For anyone who thinks Democrats shouldn't impeach because it would be too dangerous politically, what do you think is going to happen if we don't? What's going to happen if we try and "heal the country" and be forgiving? Trump is going to hammer us with lies and bs and put Democrats back on the defensive.

You can't back down from a bully. You have to hit them with all you got until they are no longer a threat. This idea that we "got him" and just need to coast until 2020 is folly. If we're not going to impeach then we damn well better continue the "witch hunt" until he's out of office because we can't become complacent one way or the other.[/QUOTE Impeachment won't change Barr's investigations and indictments, if warranted. Barr isn't pursuing revenge - he has credible evidence of potential crimes and his job is to investigate an prosecute if warranted; New York Times OPINIONS not withstanding.

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3leftsdoo said:

The Democrats are hunting the wrong witches.

They need to look closer to home.

MUCH closer.

Hint: The DNC's calling from inside the house.

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3leftsdoo said:

If only the Democrats would clean up their own crime family.

But the speck is always more bothersome than the lumber...

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danarhea said:

When Trump goes from "Total exoneration" to "Crazy Mueller report", it is clear that he has lost his messaging.

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Verax said:

New York Times



This paints a pretty clear picture of the direction Trump and the Republican leadership wants to go. For anyone who thinks Democrats shouldn't impeach because it would be too dangerous politically, what do you think is going to happen if we don't? What's going to happen if we try and "heal the country" and be forgiving? Trump is going to hammer us with lies and bs and put Democrats back on the defensive.

You can't back down from a bully. You have to hit them with all you got until they are no longer a threat. This idea that we "got him" and just need to coast until 2020 is folly. If we're not going to impeach then we damn well better continue the "witch hunt" until he's out of office because we can't become complacent one way or the other.

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Jack Fabulous said:

It all comes down to perspective.

The country is basically split in half politically and for two plus years one side has been telling the other that "their guy" is a corrupt SOB who colluded with the evil Russians to steal the election. It's been 24/7 nonstop... and the person who was supposed to confirm all of this just filed a report that says none of it never happened.

Take a step back for a moment and TRY to visualize this from the perspective of "the other side". It ain't pretty. People are not only thinking, they're BELIEVING that this whole ordeal was nothing but what amounts to an attempted coup to oust the guy that they voted for. Can you really blame them?

2016 should have been a moment of introspection for Democrats...

They did NONE of that. Instead of strengthening their resolve to beat him at the ballot box, they allowed themselves to get sucked into some stupid fantasy in which they could actually get the guy removed from office for something that they made up themselves and had not a prayer of ever proving.

So here we are. The "Russian Collusion" narrative is dead, the people who perpetuated it are likely going to jail, and Trump is stronger than ever.

Congratulations.

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marke said:

LBJ likely had JFK murdered to stop the ongoing Congressional investigation of LBJ and his crooked cronies.

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Jack Fabulous said:

It all comes down to perspective.

The country is basically split in half politically and for two plus years one side has been telling the other that "their guy" is a corrupt SOB who colluded with the evil Russians to steal the election. It's been 24/7 nonstop... and the person who was supposed to confirm all of this just filed a report that says none of it never happened.

Take a step back for a moment and TRY to visualize this from the perspective of "the other side". It ain't pretty. People are not only thinking, they're BELIEVING that this whole ordeal was nothing but what amounts to an attempted coup to oust the guy that they voted for. Can you really blame them?

2016 should have been a moment of introspection for Democrats...



They did NONE of that. Instead of strengthening their resolve to beat him at the ballot box, they allowed themselves to get sucked into some stupid fantasy in which they could actually get the guy removed from office for something that they made up themselves and had not a prayer of ever proving.

So here we are. The "Russian Collusion" narrative is dead, the people who perpetuated it are likely going to jail, and Trump is stronger than ever.

Congratulations.

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marke said:

LBJ likely had JFK murdered to stop the ongoing Congressional investigation of LBJ and his crooked cronies. Modern democrats are desperate to stop investigations into their own corruption and their desperation to remove Trump has always been in part to keep investigators from looking into democrat corruption dating back as far as 10 years. Democrat corruption is rarely prosecuted under democrats. Trump is a threat to all the crooks who sit exposed because there is no democrat in the White House to protect them from investigation and prosecution.

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MovingPictures said:

I'm conflicted.

Back in 1998 the Republicans said that one lie to a grand jury was sufficient to impeach Bill Clinton. They didn't care there wasn't public or bipartisan support for the measure, nor did they care they didn't have anywhere near enough votes in the Senate for removal.

Nope. They just went for impeachment just so they could say "the president was impeached", and contrary to popular thought that it hurt Republicans, it actually cast a dark cloud over the next election for the next Democratic candidate for the WH (Al Gore), and it was a factor in Gore's loss back in 2000.

There is far more damning evidence against Trump and a larger portion of the public that supports impeachment than in 1998.

I'm not saying Democrats must go all the way with impeachment. They can and should go for at least censure. But to do nothing in response to all these revelations (beyond Mueller as well), the Democrats will set a precedent for every Republican president to engage in these corrupt tactics; just as they set one when they allowed Gingrich to play hostage games with government spending, and that became normalized until just recently.

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ataraxia said:

Yeah, it’s a tough call. It would be a very dangerous and risky gamble politically, because you have to remember he is a sort of cult-prophet Messiah kind of figure for large parts of this country. You don’t want to make a persecuted martyr out of him. But that might mean we have to tolerate a criminal in office for the next 2, if not 6, years.

I don’t have an answer. I am just hoping there are people smarter than me deliberating this issue. It’s a toughie.

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MovingPictures said:

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MTAtech said:

Can you document the claim that JFK and LBJ murdered to stop the ongoing Congressional investigation of LBJ?

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The Trump Administration is the most corrupt in modern history.

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What is their tactic to hide it? Deflection. Look over there at the Democrats, not us.

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Meanwhile, they have cabinet members that personally benefited from their decisions. They have lobbyists write rules. They use government budgets as their personal bank accounts.

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Verax said:

Have you actually looked at the Mueller report? There is evidence of Russian collusion but not enough to come out and say "they colluded but we can't prove it". They were very conservative how they framed this because it is embarrassing to the U.S. and making any kind of claims without bulletproof evidence or going for indictment would be a mistake.
They have Trump dead to rights on obstruction but chose not to prosecute because you can't indict a sitting president. 27 times he answered that he "could not remember" to Mueller's written questions.
What part of this "never happened"?
You've been duped by right wing propaganda. This is the problem, you guys don't get it that your news is fake and ours is real

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Verax said:

Have you actually looked at the Mueller report? There is evidence of Russian collusion but not enough to come out and say "they colluded but we can't prove it". They were very conservative how they framed this because it is embarrassing to the U.S. and making any kind of claims without bulletproof evidence or going for indictment would be a mistake.

They have Trump dead to rights on obstruction but chose not to prosecute because you can't indict a sitting president. 27 times he answered that he "could not remember" to Mueller's written questions.

What part of this "never happened"?

You've been duped by right wing propaganda. This is the problem, you guys don't get it that your news is fake and ours is real.

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This left the decision to the attorney general and to Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. Here is what Barr said:

“… the evidence developed during the Special Counsel’s investigation is not sufficient to establish that the President committed an obstruction-of-justice offense. Our determination was made without regard to, and is not based on, the constitutional considerations that surround the indictment and criminal prosecution of a sitting president.”

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SLC said:

Barr and Rod [I'll wear a wire] Rosenstein did make a decision based on the law.

Barr and Rosenstein said their decision was not because you cannot indict a sitting president.

Why Mueller's hedge on obstruction decision was a mistake | TheHill

If Mueller had a case he would have said Trump had violated the law.

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marke said:

I bet you are one of those loonies who don't believe LBJ was under investigation when JFK was shot. You should see what U.S. News and World Report's major news story was on November 25, 1963. Hint: 17 pages about the trouble LBJ was in and not a single page on the assassination of JFK.

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Moderator's Warning:

That is not the topic of this thread. Do not make any further posts about this topic. To everyone else: Do not post any further responses on LBJ/JFK.

Verax said:

In the Mueller report it states that the decision was not left up to the DOJ but for congress to decide. Barr has proven himself to be nothing more than a shrewd Republican operative and nothing he says should be taken seriously.

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Verax said:

Have you actually looked at the Mueller report? There is evidence of Russian collusion but not enough to come out and say "they colluded but we can't prove it". They were very conservative how they framed this because it is embarrassing to the U.S. and making any kind of claims without bulletproof evidence or going for indictment would be a mistake.

They have Trump dead to rights on obstruction but chose not to prosecute because you can't indict a sitting president. 27 times he answered that he "could not remember" to Mueller's written questions.

What part of this "never happened"?

You've been duped by right wing propaganda. This is the problem, you guys don't get it that your news is fake and ours is real.

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Verax said:

Have you actually looked at the Mueller report? There is evidence of Russian collusion but not enough to come out and say "they colluded but we can't prove it". They were very conservative how they framed this because it is embarrassing to the U.S. and making any kind of claims without bulletproof evidence or going for indictment would be a mistake.

They have Trump dead to rights on obstruction but chose not to prosecute because you can't indict a sitting president. 27 times he answered that he "could not remember" to Mueller's written questions.

What part of this "never happened"?

You've been duped by right wing propaganda. This is the problem, you guys don't get it that your news is fake and ours is real.

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