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What happened?

Grand Mal said:
A few days ago when the Barr summary of the Mueller report came out it was trumpeted (yeah, I know...) as 'total exoneration!' No collusion, no obstruction, total exoneration. Now, with the whole- well most of the whole- report on the table it's the 'crazy Mueller report, total bull****, total fabrication'.

Trump denounces 'Crazy Mueller Report,' claims statements 'fabricted'

So what happened? When all we had was the Barr summary Trump was applauding it. Now he calls it crazy bull****.
This is all turning into quite a roller-coaster ride for Trumpsters.
Click to expand...

The ball is in Speaker Pelosi's hands. Either she goes forward with impeachment or she doesn't. Personally, I think letting Trump continue to be Trump would help the Democrats win the White House and possibly the senate in 2020. No impeachment, as impeachment could be seen as a Partisan political vendetta against Trump by independents. After all, impeachment is a purely political action. Lose the independent vote again in 2020 like in 2016 would let Trump back into the ballgame.

Fact is support isn't there by America as a whole for impeachment. 36% support impeachment, mostly dye in the wool Democrats, 59% don't. Numbers like that might earn Trump a bunch of sympathy from independents much like the impeachment of Bill Clinton did. But to impeach or not is solely up to Speaker Pelosi and the Democratic House. They can do so anytime their little pea picking hearts so desire.

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/03/20/rel4c.-.trump.and.russia.pdf

Leaving all of this up to congress is exactly where it belongs.
 
Perotista said:
The ball is in Speaker Pelosi's hands. Either she goes forward with impeachment or she doesn't. Personally, I think letting Trump continue to be Trump would help the Democrats win the White House and possibly the senate in 2020. No impeachment, as impeachment could be seen as a Partisan political vendetta against Trump by independents. After all, impeachment is a purely political action. Lose the independent vote again in 2020 like in 2016 would let Trump back into the ballgame.

Fact is support isn't there by America as a whole for impeachment. 36% support impeachment, mostly dye in the wool Democrats, 59% don't. Numbers like that might earn Trump a bunch of sympathy from independents much like the impeachment of Bill Clinton did. But to impeach or not is solely up to Speaker Pelosi and the Democratic House. They can do so anytime their little pea picking hearts so desire.

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/03/20/rel4c.-.trump.and.russia.pdf

Leaving all of this up to congress is exactly where it belongs.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and Pelosi has already said that Trump is not worth impeachment. The leading Democrats understand that impeachment is not in their best interests.

What the Democrats need to to is run someone against Trump who can be elected. We don't need a circus that an impeachment hearing would be, nor do we need another four years of Trump.

What would be even better would be the Republicans nominating someone else, but that's unlikely to happen.
 
It's still early yet after the Mueller Report. Congress doesn't have the full report. We are fresh into Barr's planned spin prior to releasing the report in the eleventh hour on Friday before a week long Congressional break. Congress is going to play catchup as was intended by Barr's DOJ.

Nadler has subpoenaed the DOJ for the full report. Subpoenas have also been issued, among others, for financial records at various banks and for Trump's tax returns. Mueller has been requested to address Congressional committees. Investigations are active in the SYND regarding Trump and family. We are starting to see conservative members of the House and Senate begin to publicly distance themselves from Trump.

Give Trump enough time and he will give more people in the Senate reason to support Trump's impeachment.
 
we're saving our energy to see what move the dems are going to make, of course.
 
Perotista said:
The ball is in Speaker Pelosi's hands. Either she goes forward with impeachment or she doesn't. Personally, I think letting Trump continue to be Trump would help the Democrats win the White House and possibly the senate in 2020. No impeachment, as impeachment could be seen as a Partisan political vendetta against Trump by independents. After all, impeachment is a purely political action. Lose the independent vote again in 2020 like in 2016 would let Trump back into the ballgame.

Fact is support isn't there by America as a whole for impeachment. 36% support impeachment, mostly dye in the wool Democrats, 59% don't. Numbers like that might earn Trump a bunch of sympathy from independents much like the impeachment of Bill Clinton did. But to impeach or not is solely up to Speaker Pelosi and the Democratic House. They can do so anytime their little pea picking hearts so desire.

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/03/20/rel4c.-.trump.and.russia.pdf

Leaving all of this up to congress is exactly where it belongs.
Click to expand...

I agree, but I don't see impeachment on the table. Doesn't there need to be a 2/3 majority in the Senate or something?
My opinion- the Democratic Party should just keep their big mouths shut about all of it. The media will be all over it like ugly on an ape and if the Democrats just let it happen good things will come their way next election but if they get into the gutter and roll around with their opponents they'll just smell as bad as the Republicans.
But that, too, probably isn't on the table. This is just going to get uglier and uglier.
 
Hypothetical said:
we're saving our energy to see what move the dems are going to make, of course.
Click to expand...

If they're smart they won't make any moves at all. They'll keep their pie-holes shut and let the Republicans and the media go all nutso on each other.
 
Grand Mal said:
A few days ago when the Barr summary of the Mueller report came out it was trumpeted (yeah, I know...) as 'total exoneration!' No collusion, no obstruction, total exoneration. Now, with the whole- well most of the whole- report on the table it's the 'crazy Mueller report, total bull****, total fabrication'.

Trump denounces 'Crazy Mueller Report,' claims statements 'fabricted'

So what happened? When all we had was the Barr summary Trump was applauding it. Now he calls it crazy bull****.
This is all turning into quite a roller-coaster ride for Trumpsters.
Click to expand...

So far only tabloids (and fox news, I'm sure) are repeating the exoneration line. Barr's defense of him worked for his supporters, but I doubt it worked for anyone else. Prediction: Trump's approval won't move at all.
 
Grand Mal said:
If they're smart they won't make any moves at all. They'll keep their pie-holes shut and let the Republicans and the media go all nutso on each other.
Click to expand...

They're not going to go nutso "on each other." They're going to unite and get their full autocratic tendencies on and fill the vacuum that Democrats create.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Exactly, and Pelosi has already said that Trump is not worth impeachment. The leading Democrats understand that impeachment is not in their best interests.

What the Democrats need to to is run someone against Trump who can be elected. We don't need a circus that an impeachment hearing would be, nor do we need another four years of Trump.

What would be even better would be the Republicans nominating someone else, but that's unlikely to happen.
Click to expand...

If Trump wants to run for reelection, he'll be renominated easily. If you go to question 68 You'll see 78% of Republicans want Trump to run for reelection, 13% don't. With numbers like that, no one is going to beat Trump in the GOP primaries.

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/egvqvgp5a7/econTabReport.pdf

but it also shows 33% of independents want Trump to run again, 46% do not. My take on that is that unless the Democrats nominate a candidate disliked more by independents, ala another Hillary Clinton, than Trump, the Democrats should win the independent vote and the White House.

One also needs to remember that 54% of independents voted against Trump. The 42% who voted for Hillary along with the 12% who voted third party, against both Trump and Hillary. To lose in 2020, the Democrats must nominate someone who really turns independents off like Hillary did. As someone who runs numbers all the time, I think there are 4 candidates in the current field that could do that. Time will tell.
 
Grand Mal said:
I agree, but I don't see impeachment on the table. Doesn't there need to be a 2/3 majority in the Senate or something?
My opinion- the Democratic Party should just keep their big mouths shut about all of it. The media will be all over it like ugly on an ape and if the Democrats just let it happen good things will come their way next election but if they get into the gutter and roll around with their opponents they'll just smell as bad as the Republicans.
But that, too, probably isn't on the table. This is just going to get uglier and uglier.
Click to expand...

I agree. Just letting Trump be Trump is working to the Democrats advantage in 2020 just like it did for 2018. The Democrats need to be careful on whom they nominate, they need to stay away from the candidates that turnoff independents. Independents gave Trump the White House, the wrong candidate could do it again.
 
Grand Mal said:
I agree, but I don't see impeachment on the table. Doesn't there need to be a 2/3 majority in the Senate or something?
My opinion- the Democratic Party should just keep their big mouths shut about all of it. The media will be all over it like ugly on an ape and if the Democrats just let it happen good things will come their way next election but if they get into the gutter and roll around with their opponents they'll just smell as bad as the Republicans.
But that, too, probably isn't on the table. This is just going to get uglier and uglier.
Click to expand...

I doubt at this point that the Dems will move to impeach him based on exactly the reason you gave (2/3 majority in the Senate). Back in the early 1970s the Republicans actually had ethics and morals, and when they made it obvious they wouldn't support Nixon, it resulted in his resignation. Sadly, the Republicans with ethics and morals are now a thing of the past, and the idiots in Congress today as are ignorant and void of ethics and morals as Trump's Fan Base is. They continue to support an obvious menace in spite of knowing (but never dare admitting out loud) that he is clearly the worst person imaginable for that role. So like Jim Jones' cult base, in spite of knowing full well how unhinged and deceitful he was, they will continue to support him, and to their own detriments.

My mind is made up. I will vote for Weld in the NH primary, and then vote for whomever gets the Democratic nomination against Trump in November of 2020.
 
Grand Mal said:
A few days ago when the Barr summary of the Mueller report came out it was trumpeted (yeah, I know...) as 'total exoneration!' No collusion, no obstruction, total exoneration. Now, with the whole- well most of the whole- report on the table it's the 'crazy Mueller report, total bull****, total fabrication'.

Trump denounces 'Crazy Mueller Report,' claims statements 'fabricted'

So what happened? When all we had was the Barr summary Trump was applauding it. Now he calls it crazy bull****.
This is all turning into quite a roller-coaster ride for Trumpsters.
Click to expand...

You've got a point because the Mueller report pretty much was a total exoneration of Trump. No collusion was found and Mueller refused to make a judgment on obstruction of justice, leaving that up to the DOJ who he knew was Trump's DOJ.
 
Moderate Right said:
You've got a point because the Mueller report pretty much was a total exoneration of Trump. No collusion was found and Mueller refused to make a judgment on obstruction of justice, leaving that up to the DOJ who he knew was Trump's DOJ.
Click to expand...

The quote from the report I read said he was leaving it up to the Congress and that Congress should 'pursue it'. The quotes I read also deny any 'exoneration'.
Here's the quotes I'm citing...

The Mueller report cited*Trump's desire, at times, to have the special counsel removed from his post, though McGahn and other advisers disregarded orders or got him to change his mind.

Trump "engaged in efforts to curtail the Special Counsel’s investigation and prevent the disclosure of evidence to it, including through public and private contacts with potential witnesses," the report said.

Prosecutors could not determine, however, whether Trump's actions rose to the level of criminal conduct, and suggested that Congress might want to pursue the matter.

"If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the president did not obstruct justice, we would so state," the Mueller report says. "Accordingly, while this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him."

It's in the link I provided. You might want to read it.
 
Grand Mal said:
A few days ago when the Barr summary of the Mueller report came out it was trumpeted (yeah, I know...) as 'total exoneration!' No collusion, no obstruction, total exoneration. Now, with the whole- well most of the whole- report on the table it's the 'crazy Mueller report, total bull****, total fabrication'.

Trump denounces 'Crazy Mueller Report,' claims statements 'fabricted'

So what happened? When all we had was the Barr summary Trump was applauding it. Now he calls it crazy bull****.
This is all turning into quite a roller-coaster ride for Trumpsters.
Click to expand...

Trump is nuttier than a port-a-potty at a three day pecan festival.

Trump fans are exponentially worse.

COMEDY GOLD
 
Moderate Right said:
You've got a point because the Mueller report pretty much was a total exoneration of Trump. No collusion was found and Mueller refused to make a judgment on obstruction of justice, leaving that up to the DOJ who he knew was Trump's DOJ.
Click to expand...

You obviously haven't read the report. It nails tRump harder and dirtier than the last half dozen ex-tRump insider tell-alls. And that explains tRump's extra foul mood today. tRump and his cult are sore down there...
 
Perotista said:
The ball is in Speaker Pelosi's hands. Either she goes forward with impeachment or she doesn't. Personally, I think letting Trump continue to be Trump would help the Democrats win the White House and possibly the senate in 2020. No impeachment, as impeachment could be seen as a Partisan political vendetta against Trump by independents. After all, impeachment is a purely political action. Lose the independent vote again in 2020 like in 2016 would let Trump back into the ballgame.

Fact is support isn't there by America as a whole for impeachment. 36% support impeachment, mostly dye in the wool Democrats, 59% don't. Numbers like that might earn Trump a bunch of sympathy from independents much like the impeachment of Bill Clinton did. But to impeach or not is solely up to Speaker Pelosi and the Democratic House. They can do so anytime their little pea picking hearts so desire.

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/03/20/rel4c.-.trump.and.russia.pdf

Leaving all of this up to congress is exactly where it belongs.
Click to expand...

The Republicant Senate won't convict. So you know how it's goining to go.

With Clinton, all the alt-right talks about is impeachment and never mention his acquittal by the Senate.

If the fat ass orange blob, piece of crap, lying liar, narcissistic mob boss is impeached, he will be acquitted and all you will hear from the cultists will be that he was acquitted and the dems failed again 'to get him'.

It's not a winner for the dems to impeach.
 
BWG said:
The Republicant Senate won't convict. So you know how it's goining to go.

With Clinton, all the alt-right talks about is impeachment and never mention his acquittal by the Senate.

If the fat ass orange blob, piece of crap, lying liar, narcissistic mob boss is impeached, he will be acquitted and all you will hear from the cultists will be that he was acquitted and the dems failed again 'to get him'.

It's not a winner for the dems to impeach.
Click to expand...

I agree, its not a winner at all.
 
<alt>doxygen said:
I thought "liar" and "fraud" were the main requirements given in her job description.:2razz:
Click to expand...

They aren't in the normal Press Secretary job description, which is why most of them were bad liars when they did lie. She is the right person to be Trump's Press Secretary. Lying with style and perfection is a requirement of being in that administration, and that fraud delivers better than anyone else does.
 
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