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[W:758:802]Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them? (1 Viewer)

Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

Incredulous said:
I am 100% on board with education, prevention and treatment. However, that is unrelated to the criminality of knowingly exposing a partner without their consent. I am thankful for the medical advances that make it possible to help limit the spread of HIV as well as the advances in treatment to actually treat the virus. However, none of that is 100% and does not remove the need for consent before exposure. While the virus is treatable, who is to say you've got the insurance or means to do so? And this is a lifetime of medical care. Knowingly exposing someone to HIV without their consent should definitely remain a felony.
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This guy gets it.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

RBIII said:
So, to protect these people, you are willing to risk the health and lives of everyone else, so that they feel better. Its a potentially fatal and definitely life changing disease.

I am not willing to do that.
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Protect who? Criminally stigmatizing them and imprisoning them has not yielded positive results, or you would be sharing them.

Once again you're ignoring the medical facts that I have repeated above.
If 99% of the infection rate is eliminated through effective treatment and PreP drugs, what exactly is it that you're arguing, the remaining one percent that fell through the cracks?
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

Checkerboard Strangler said:
Protect who? Criminally stigmatizing them and imprisoning them has not yielded positive results, or you would be sharing them.

Once again you're ignoring the medical facts that I have repeated above.
If 99% of the infection rate is eliminated through effective treatment and PreP drugs, what exactly is it that you're arguing, the remaining one percent that fell through the cracks?
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I don't know how much farther i can go with you.

See what Incredulous said and respond to that.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

Checkerboard Strangler said:
You have spelled it out plainly, and I plainly spelled out the fact that the existence of PreP and the existence of effective treatment regimens makes the incidence of knowing infection go down drastically, while continuing on a path of criminal stigmatization drives the target group underground.

Are you also pretending that your approach yields positive results? If so, show us.
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I'm not opposing your point because I believe it has validity. But let's open context, just for a moment, for perspective. In most of the developing world, politicians and people of power do it intentionally and without care for the victim and there's not much if any law against it. The victims are countless and there is no justice.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

Incredulous said:
I am 100% on board with education, prevention and treatment. However, that is unrelated to the criminality of knowingly exposing a partner without their consent. I am thankful for the medical advances that make it possible to help limit the spread of HIV as well as the advances in treatment to actually treat the virus. However, none of that is 100% and does not remove the need for consent before exposure. While the virus is treatable, who is to say you've got the insurance or means to do so? And this is a lifetime of medical care. Knowingly exposing someone to HIV without their consent should definitely remain a felony.
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Okay so "not 100 percent"...99 percent isn't good enough...you are expecting 100 percent.
Someone should have sat you down and explained the facts of life to you a very long time ago.

There is no such thing as a 100% guarantee...of ANYTHING.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

ecofarm said:
I'm not opposing your point because I believe it has validity. But let's open context, just for a moment, for perspective. In most of the developing world, politicians and people of power do it intentionally and without care for the victim and there's not much if any law against it. The victims are countless and there is no justice.
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Well, those same people of power also make phony "100 percent guarantees" and people who don't think critically are only too happy to believe that there are 100 percent guarantees.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

Checkerboard Strangler said:
Okay so "not 100 percent"...99 percent isn't good enough...you are expecting 100 percent.
Someone should have sat you down and explained the facts of life to you a very long time ago.

There is no such thing as a 100% guarantee...of ANYTHING.
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Wrong again lol.

There is a 100% guarantee that if you **** someone who does not have HIV, you won't get it either.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

RBIII said:
I don't know how much farther i can go with you.

See what Incredulous said and respond to that.
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So your logic is failing. Okay, use better logic then.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

Checkerboard Strangler said:
Well, those same people of power also make phony "100 percent guarantees" and people who don't think critically are only too happy to believe that there are 100 percent guarantees.
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But it's really horrible when the victim has no idea and is after tossed quite literally into a dumpster with no recourse and everyone knows why she's there. Except for the most amazing people, it's over.
 
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Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

RBIII said:
Wrong again lol.

There is a 100% guarantee that if you **** someone who does not have HIV, you won't get it either.
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No, there isn't. You can acquire HIV through the actions of a careless dentist or through other avenues of exposure, numerous other avenues of exposure. There are virgins who acquired HIV. Some of them were born HIV positive.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

Checkerboard Strangler said:
No, there isn't. You can acquire HIV through the actions of a careless dentist or through other avenues of exposure, numerous other avenues of exposure. There are virgins who acquired HIV. Some of them were born HIV positive.
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Knowingly.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

Ryan White acquired HIV became infected with HIV from a contaminated factor VIII blood treatment and, when diagnosed in December 1984, was given six months to live. Doctors said he posed no risk to other students, as AIDS is not an airborne disease and spreads solely through body fluids, but AIDS was poorly understood by the general public at the time. When White tried to return to school, many parents and teachers in Howard County rallied against his attendance due to concerns of the disease spreading through bodily fluid transfer.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

Checkerboard Strangler said:
Ryan White acquired HIV became infected with HIV from a contaminated factor VIII blood treatment and, when diagnosed in December 1984, was given six months to live. Doctors said he posed no risk to other students, as AIDS is not an airborne disease and spreads solely through body fluids, but AIDS was poorly understood by the general public at the time. When White tried to return to school, many parents and teachers in Howard County rallied against his attendance due to concerns of the disease spreading through bodily fluid transfer.
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Knowingly.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

RBIII said:
Knowingly.
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And again, if treatment and prevention are the more effective ways to approach this problem, why not put the emphasis on those approaches, which will FAIL if you drive the community underground?
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

If you have proof that incarceration and criminalization are more effective than prevention and treatment, let's see that proof?
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

RBIII said:
Positive results for people who do not have HIV, which is most of the planet.

Yes
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Most of the planet? How does criminalization and incarceration help most of the planet better than prevention and treatment?
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

Checkerboard Strangler said:
Okay so "not 100 percent"...99 percent isn't good enough...you are expecting 100 percent.
Someone should have sat you down and explained the facts of life to you a very long time ago.

There is no such thing as a 100% guarantee...of ANYTHING.
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No. Ninety-nine percent is not good enough for me when HIV guarantees a lifetime of medication and medical care.

Yes. There is 100% guarantee that if I don't have sex with someone with HIV that I will not contract that virus via sexual contact.

We share a lot of the same ideas, but this isn't one of them. I'd appreciate it if you didn't address me in a condescending manner.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

Checkerboard Strangler said:
And again, if treatment and prevention are the more effective ways to approach this problem, why not put the emphasis on those approaches, which will FAIL if you drive the community underground?
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No one is driving the community underground, as if underground is inherently bad. You can find solutions to your problems underground.

We are talking about reducing the penalty for knowingly spreading a disease to a clean person. If you just condemn this, i can agree with everything else you are talking about.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

RBIII said:
Also how did the old law prevent or discourage people from getting tested? Please explain.
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By driving that community underground. Criminalization, stigmatization and incarceration drives a community underground.
If you go after a specific group, stigmatize and criminalize them, they go underground, and if they go underground, they do not seek help. If they do not seek help, the problem gets worse.

Simple logic.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

Incredulous said:
No. Ninety-nine percent is not good enough for me when HIV guarantees a lifetime of medication and medical care.

Yes. There is 100% guarantee that if I don't have sex with someone with HIV that I will not contract that virus via sexual contact.

We share a lot of the same ideas, but this isn't one of them. I'd appreciate it if you didn't address me in a condescending manner.
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I think he's drunk, and i've been there, he will come to his senses soon.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

Checkerboard Strangler said:
By driving that community underground. Criminalization, stigmatization and incarceration drives a community underground.
If you go after a specific group, stigmatize and criminalize them, they go underground, and if they go underground, they do not seek help. If they do not seek help, the problem gets worse.

Simple logic.
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The help is underground.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

Deuce said:
Trump: " I CAN MAKE IT WORSE TRUST ME"
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Well, that got a chuckle. Not that I agree with it, but it got a chuckle.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

RBIII said:
No one is driving the community underground, as if underground is inherently bad. You can find solutions to your problems underground.

We are talking about reducing the penalty for knowingly spreading a disease to a clean person. If you just condemn this, i can agree with everything else you are talking about.
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If you're right, you should have no trouble proving your argument.
Please prove how going underground is not inherently bad and what solutions are available underground.
 
Re: Does the left understand that logic will always defeat them?

Checkerboard Strangler said:
If you're right, you should have no trouble proving your argument.
Please prove how going underground is not inherently bad and what solutions are available underground.
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I will do this, but first.

Will you condemn knowingly spreading a disease?
 
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