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Weren't Most Slaves Better Off In America Than Where They Were?

Moderate Right said:
The thread is about reparations to slave descendants. If these descendants are actually better off today than they would have been if their ancestors were never taken away then they are due no reparations.
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What about the unpaid wages? Pain and suffering? Are the ones who died in transit better off? What about being denied work between the end of slavery and civil rights?

I’m not arguing for reparations but clearly the US government is liable and responsible. We can agree to move on but the debt is there.


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Master Debator said:
Black people aren't better off because they were enslaved they are better off in spite of it. Making that simple mental adjustment illuminates the questionable supposition at the heart of your argument. We have two separate issues here. Slavery and the current condition of black Americans. You wish to argue that one is the result of the other but so far your evidence of this is questionable at best. In fact your only evidence that slavery was better for blacks in the long run is their current condition but that is a logical fallacy. If you're assaulted one day and win the lottery the next that doesn't mean you won the lottery because you were assaulted. Please tell me you understand that basic concept.
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Or let’s say you’re molested by a rich man and are awarded millions, are you better off for being molested? It’s absurd.


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Hypothetical said:
ok well you didn't say "evil" but you seemed to have as much righteous indignation at someone asking the question as anyone else in the thread, plus maybe I wanted to see your answer LOL :)
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My answer to what? Why this assertion is beyond ridiculous? lol... I mean...I guess for me it's one of these "Really??" moments...I feel dumb answering it. It's not so much righteous indignation as it is me feeling pissed off for the loss of brain cells that resulted in reading the assertion in the first place.

But...since we're being...wait for it... hypothetical... (tee hee, funniest man in the world right here) …it is impossible to say what African culture and civilization would look like today if left alone. 12 million slaves were brought to the Americas, and I'm guessing that they didn't pick the weaklings and the dummies. What impact would that have on society? What would that society look like today if they hadn't been robbed of a big chunk of their population?

When you consider that against the demonstrable, statistical disparities that exist even today for people of African descent, I don't think there is much of a case to be made for "they're better off having been slaves". Therefore I think the general assertion in the OP can, and should, be dismissed.
 
Moderate Right said:
I'm actually trying to have an honest discussion. Weren't the slaves (in many cases) who were forced to come to America actually better off than where they had been before?

For the purpose of this discussion let's please not talk about whips and chains and physical abuse. .
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Even with the physical abuse Africans were much better off becoming slaves than staying in Africa. Every nation through out history pretty much owned slaves but western nations were the first to abolish it.

If you think the black on black violence in the US is bad, then you need to read a history book or the news.


Darfur genocide - Wikipedia

Rwandan genocide - Wikipedia

Uganda: The Horror
|
History
| Smithsonian

These people just love to kill each other. There is so much data on "African on African violence", but I don't want to dump a million links no one will read.

So I gave modern examples just to establish how much these people love to kill each other.

Slavery in contemporary Africa - Wikipedia

They love to enslave each other.

The average IQ of sub-Saharan Africans: Comments on Wicherts, Dolan, and van der Maas - ScienceDirect

In 2009 it was concluded that the average IQ in sub-Saharan Africa was 68.

Let that sink in.

They should thank white people.
 
Moderate Right said:
The left keeps on talking about slave reparations and how African Americans have been condemned to a generational cycle of poverty ever since and it's time to bring descendants up to speed. But, while they were slaves, weren't they actually better off in America than where they had been? I mean these people weren't taken from the Taj Mahal or from royal castles. Let's be honest. They were taken from sh!thole countries. In fact, if we turned the recent caravans of Central American illegal immigrants into slaves, giving them free room and board in exchange for work, wouldn't most of them actually jump at the idea?

Now I know some people will jump all over me for the humanity and disgustingness. But, I'm actually trying to have an honest discussion. Weren't the slaves (in many cases) who were forced to come to America actually better off than where they had been before? I mean, we know what their descendants lives are currently like now (with many of them actually doing quite well and many not) but, what would these descendants lives be like today if they had never been taken to America? And, if they are better off now in America than they would have been off today where they originally came from, there are no actual damages that they need reparations for. In fact, most are better off than they would have been if they hadn't been brought to America as slaves.

For the purpose of this discussion let's please not talk about whips and chains and physical abuse. The left wants to pay them reparations for their station in life. They've never once mentioned reparations for physical abuse. So, I beg everyone to stay on topic and answer the question honestly.
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Hmmmm perhaps we should ask this guy if he thought he was better off:

Escaped Slave, Gordon.jpg
 
OlNate said:
My answer to what? Why this assertion is beyond ridiculous? lol... I mean...I guess for me it's one of these "Really??" moments...I feel dumb answering it. It's not so much righteous indignation as it is me feeling pissed off for the loss of brain cells that resulted in reading the assertion in the first place.

But...since we're being...wait for it... hypothetical... (tee hee, funniest man in the world right here) …it is impossible to say what African culture and civilization would look like today if left alone. 12 million slaves were brought to the Americas, and I'm guessing that they didn't pick the weaklings and the dummies. What impact would that have on society? What would that society look like today if they hadn't been robbed of a big chunk of their population?

When you consider that against the demonstrable, statistical disparities that exist even today for people of African descent, I don't think there is much of a case to be made for "they're better off having been slaves". Therefore I think the general assertion in the OP can, and should, be dismissed.
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oh no, I am not arguing that slaves were better off, not at all. Merely that some (perhaps not you as much as I thought initially) are triggered by anyone even mentioning it no discussion can be had of anything related to it.. and I think that is bad for any topic.
 
Hypothetical said:
oh no, I am not arguing that slaves were better off, not at all. Merely that some (perhaps not you as much as I thought initially) are triggered by anyone even mentioning it no discussion can be had of anything related to it.. and I think that is bad for any topic.
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The argument in the op is stupid. So, there is that.
 
Hypothetical said:
oh no, I am not arguing that slaves were better off, not at all. Merely that some (perhaps not you as much as I thought initially) are triggered by anyone even mentioning it no discussion can be had of anything related to it.. and I think that is bad for any topic.
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Meh...topics are like anything else. Some simply deserve no respect. I mean, we have one guy in here suggesting black folks should actually thank white people for their slavery. What kind of response do you think that should elicit?

I don't do the #triggered thing too often... This is an anonymous debate forum, if you can't float your crazies here, where can you? But when something like this comes along, it's like being forced to watch someone take a dump...no, it's not heinously offensive to me, but I find myself still vexed nevertheless. lol
 
augustus said:
All of these answers, except mine (and Felis's), are VERY typical liberal responses. You can't even broach the subject and ask for an intelligent conversation or you are a monster. No discussions. No conversations, just "you're an a-hole!!" Passion and emotion. Kinda like how ANTIFA behaves. I'm sorry you were made to feel like a slave owner for simply asking for discussion about it. That's liberal for ya. Try to let it bounce. I learned that trick long ago.
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So what's the intelligent response to "slavery was a good thing?"

Sorry, but if the right is going to make apologies for slavery and fly the Confederate flag, YOU AREN'T THE PARTY OF LINCOLN ANYMORE.
 
CitizenBasehead said:
There is a link...

It's just to establish how ****ty Africa is.

Low IQ response.

Please try harder.
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So your argument is that if someone somewhere else is worse off then you can't be a victim of a crime and be deserving of justice? I suppose that is technically an argument. Not a very reasoned or convincing one but an argument none the less.
 
Master Debator said:
So your argument is that if someone somewhere else is worse off then you can't be a victim of a crime and be deserving of justice? I suppose that is technically an argument. Not a very reasoned or convincing one but an argument none the less.
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I never stated anything like that.

You're so emotional right now, you're making stupid assumptions of the intent of my post.

I couldn't care less about what black people think they deserve.

I'm just pointing out Africa is a **** hole and African Americans are much better off then black Africans today.

You really need to try harder, this is just sad.
 

You deserve every bit of lashing coming from this thread, and it really should make you think that your position is incorrect, or at the very least incorrectly rooted. Go read "A People's History of the United States".
 
Moderate Right said:
You blatantly ignored the rules I laid out. If these descendants are better off today than if their ancestors had never come to America, then there are no damages and reparations are not necessary.
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I don't care about your 'rules'. What is this, grade school?
 
Fruityfact said:
You deserve every bit of lashing coming from this thread, and it really should make you think that your position is incorrect, or at the very least incorrectly rooted. Go read "A People's History of the United States".
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The ones that crack me up are the ones that try to show how violent African history was...while ignoring the violence in South & Central America, North America, Europe, and Asia.

Incredibly selective knowledge....pure wilful blindness.
 
CitizenBasehead said:
I never stated anything like that.
You're so emotional right now, you're making stupid assumptions of the intent of my post.
I couldn't care less about what black people think they deserve.
I'm just pointing out Africa is a **** hole and African Americans are much better off then black Africans today.
You really need to try harder, this is just sad.
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Blah blah blah, the bell curve, blah blah blah. Spare your time and ours and go back to 5chan or whatever.
 
calamity said:
Bold: Not when half the country fought to keep them enslaved.
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They were fighting for what they fought was the best interest of the confederacy.

Slavery was just a part of it.

Don't conflate the intent of the confederate government, with the intent of the solders fight for their home states.

Only idiots buy such blatant BS or make such stupid remarks.
 
CitizenBasehead said:
I never stated anything like that.

You're so emotional right now, you're making stupid assumptions of the intent of my post.

I couldn't care less about what black people think they deserve.

I'm just pointing out Africa is a **** hole and African Americans are much better off then black Africans today.

You really need to try harder, this is just sad.
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Notice the question mark at the end of my first sentence? That indicates a question. Im offering you an opportunity to clarify since your argument seemed confused. If the conditions of current Africans have no bearing on whether black Americans are deserving of reparations then why bring it up? And if you're not offering an argument either way and your purpose isnt debate then your only reasons in responding to this thread would be for emotional ones.
 
Master Debator said:
Black people aren't better off because they were enslaved they are better off in spite of it. Making that simple mental adjustment illuminates the questionable supposition at the heart of your argument. We have two separate issues here. Slavery and the current condition of black Americans. You wish to argue that one is the result of the other but so far your evidence of this is questionable at best. In fact your only evidence that slavery was better for blacks in the long run is their current condition but that is a logical fallacy. If you're assaulted one day and win the lottery the next that doesn't mean you won the lottery because you were assaulted. Please tell me you understand that basic concept.
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I did not say that black people were better off because they were enslaved and you are maliciously distorting what I said when you even suggest that I did.
 
AlbqOwl said:
I did not say that black people were better off because they were enslaved and you are maliciously distorting what I said when you even suggest that I did.
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No?

AlbqOwl said:
But there is now no living person who is a first generation American slave and no more than a handful of those who were born as the first generation free of slavery. And millions of black people are far better off because some slave trader dragged one or more of their ancestors over here way back when, i.e. better off than they would be if they had been born in the country of their ancestors.
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Then please clarify your position.
 
I’m not sure what’s sadder...the fact the OP thought that his OP had any merit to begin with (outside of the Stormfront crowd anyway), or that he actually came back to try to defend it.

Oh...and in case it hasn’t sunk in yet, the answer to the OP’s title is unequivocally NO
 
Master Debator said:
Notice the question mark at the end of my first sentence? That indicates a question. Im offering you an opportunity to clarify since your argument seemed confused. If the conditions of current Africans have no bearing on whether black Americans are deserving of reparations then why bring it up? And if you're not offering an argument either way and your purpose isnt debate then your only reasons in responding to this thread would be for emotional ones.
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I was responding to your inane BS.

Master Debator said:
So your argument is that if someone somewhere else is worse off then you can't be a victim of a crime and be deserving of justice? I suppose that is technically an argument. Not a very reasoned or convincing one but an argument none the less.
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You're terrible at this, please try harder.
 
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