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Another Police Officer Murdeed by Illegal Immigrant...

Ikari said:
Yes, but statistics are the important part because it lays out the probabilities and shows which effects have the larger impact on systems. Also, the details are important. In this case, it was someone who had over staid a visa and wasn't known to the State. Even with the Trump Wall, this would still have occurred. And until we want to get serious and start holding businesses and corporations responsible for hiring illegal aliens, we're not really going to start to impact the "over-staid visa" portion of illegal aliens.
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Oh, I completely agree, Ikari. I am under no illusions that a series of well-guarded barriers would stop all crime committed by illegal immigrants or people who overstay their visas. But I believe a series of well-guarded barrier would be necessary because if we do not fully control our side of the border, we give control over the United States-Mexico border to the Mexican Cartels who already have free reign over it and everyone who passes over it now. I want to do everything we can to minimize the incidence of human trafficking and drug smuggling coming into our country, and arms smuggling going out of our country and into Mexico.
 
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LouC said:
The reporting I saw said he was on a 3 year visa, which expired in April of 2017.

Investigators focus on background of suspect in Kittitas County deputy’s slaying | The Seattle Times

Even if it expired in 2015 he was running free since January 20, 2017 until now, on TRUMPS'S WATCH.
That would make both Obama and Trump responsible for not picking this dude up and deporting him.
That would mean both Presidents have the blood of those officers on their hands.
But again, no wall would have prevented this killing.
No "sanctuary city law" caused the killing.
What I hope the police and ICE are doing is finding out if this scum was still working in agriculture and if so who was he working for and why did they have an illegal working for them?
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The report you saw was the "reporter's" conclusion after checking how long a H-2A visa is valid; however, a temp. agricultural visa is valid for 1 year only.

"... Employment is of a temporary nature when the employer’s need to fill the position with a temporary worker is for a limited time period of less than one year. ..."

Access Denied


Obama's administration gave him that temp. visa; Obama's administration did not follow up when said visa expired in 2015.
 
Ikari said:
Not the point of propaganda. The point of propaganda is to spin. It doesn't matter that this wasn't someone crossing the boarder illegally, it doesn't matter he wasn't in a sanctuary city, it doesn't matter that until this point he was unknown by law enforcement. It's all about the propaganda and spin.
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Understood. I’m just pinning down the spinner. Fake news spreaders and propagandists should always be challenged and exposed.
 
Don't know what it is with linking to certain web pages, but the info is from:

elaws: Employment Laws Assistance for Workers & Small Businesses - Employment Law Guide
Work Authorization for Non-U.S. Citizens: Temporary Agricultural Workers (H-2A Visas)
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Understood. I’m just pinning down the spinner. Fake news spreaders and propagandists should always be challenged and exposed.
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spinners gonna spin. You can't "pin them down" because they ignore all fact and logic. You can expose these sorts of Fake News threads, but those who support them will not care. Those who are paying attention already know. It's one of the problems when the system becomes so hyperpartisan that we've removed reason and logic.
 
Grokmaster said:
Because sanctuary cities/states are not preventing the sharing of that information to ICE... :roll:
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There was no information to be shared with ICE from local authorities.

You really don't know how this all works.

The perp had no civil or criminal warrants for his arrest.

The Perp had no interaction with police that was suppressed by any Sanctuary City law.

State and local authorities had nothing that could have been reported to ICE but was being suppressed by Sanctuary City law.

ICE should have known that his Federally Issued Visa was expired and that he had failed to remove himself from the country and had failed to request a Visa extension.

The Federal Government held all the cards on this scumbag and THEY failed to play them.

Thanks though for another OP chock full of false narratives and pure BS!

You do entertain with your low information posting!

:lol:
 
Ikari said:
Yes, but statistics are the important part because it lays out the probabilities and shows which effects have the larger impact on systems. Also, the details are important. In this case, it was someone who had over staid a visa and wasn't known to the State. Even with the Trump Wall, this would still have occurred. And until we want to get serious and start holding businesses and corporations responsible for hiring illegal aliens, we're not really going to start to impact the "over-staid visa" portion of illegal aliens.
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A second point I wanted to make: One of the biggest canards that people keep bringing up is that we should hold employers liable for hiring illegal immigrants and thus creating the demand for illegal immigration. The problem is that our laws are not suited for that purpose. In California, for example, I am forbade from asking my potential employees about their citizenship status unless being an American citizen is specifically required for the job (I can only ask if they have a legal right to work in the United States), and I can be severely fined under California Law for asking anything but that. I am given no enforcement mechanism for verifying whether my employees are citizens or legal immigrants or not.
 
Barnacle said:
The report you saw was the "reporter's" conclusion after checking how long a H-2A visa is valid; however, a temp. agricultural visa is valid for 1 year only.

"... Employment is of a temporary nature when the employer’s need to fill the position with a temporary worker is for a limited time period of less than one year. ..."

Access Denied


Obama's administration gave him that temp. visa; Obama's administration did not follow up when said visa expired in 2015.
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I said Obama was to blame if his visa was expired in 2015 and he hadn't renewed.

But Obese Donald had from January 20th of 2017 until now to remove this perp, his administration had the same information that Obama's did.

They both have blood on their hands!
 
LouC said:
I said Obama was to blame if his visa was expired in 2015 and he hadn't renewed.

But Obese Donald had from January 20th of 2017 until now to remove this perp, his administration had the same information that Obama's did.

They both have blood on their hands!
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If you are saying that without rancor or irony, then the only conclusion one can draw from that as to the duty of the President is that he must order mass-deportation of all known illegal immigrants and those who have overstayed their visas. Is that what you are arguing, LouC?
 
LouC said:
I said Obama was to blame if his visa was expired in 2015 and he hadn't renewed.
But Obese Donald had from January 20th of 2017 until now to remove this perp, his administration had the same information that Obama's did.
They both have blood on their hands!
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Yeah, yeah ... keep on moving the goal post ... after you first stated false information and then tried to weasel your way out ... :lamo
 
Felis Leo said:
A second point I wanted to make: One of the biggest canards that people keep bringing up is that we should hold employers liable for hiring illegal immigrants and thus creating the demand for illegal immigration. The problem is that our laws are not suited for that purpose. In California, for example, I am forbade from asking my potential employees about their citizenship status unless being an American citizen is specifically required for the job (I can only ask if they have a legal right to work in the United States), and I can be severely fined under California Law for asking anything but that. I am given no enforcement mechanism for verifying whether my employees are citizens or legal immigrants or not.
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I'm OK with e-Verify being made mandatory nationwide. In your job you cannot ask if one is legally allowed to work in the US? That seems rather foolish. Every job I've ever applied for asks that (in fact every job I've ever applied for asks directly if I am a US citizen or here on a Visa because if I'm here on Visa, they need the Visa details). I think if there are actually laws that forbid companies from assessing the legality of a potential employees to work in the US, those laws need to be struck down. If there's no work here in the US for illegal aliens, then you've removed a major impetus for people trying to get here illegally.
 
Barnacle said:
The report you saw was the "reporter's" conclusion after checking how long a H-2A visa is valid; however, a temp. agricultural visa is valid for 1 year only.

"... Employment is of a temporary nature when the employer’s need to fill the position with a temporary worker is for a limited time period of less than one year. ..."

Access Denied


Obama's administration gave him that temp. visa; Obama's administration did not follow up when said visa expired in 2015.
Click to expand...
Do you know how many people overstay their visa’s each year, or have any idea how many of them commit violent crimes? Chasing down visa overstays is not, and hasn’t been a priority for any administration. There are too many other pressing issues and limited resources.

The Washington murder was an anomaly. Terrible, but nonetheless an anomaly, and not the fault of anyone but the murderer.
 
Ikari said:
I'm OK with e-Verify being made mandatory nationwide. In your job you cannot ask if one is legally allowed to work in the US? That seems rather foolish. Every job I've ever applied for asks that (in fact every job I've ever applied for asks directly if I am a US citizen or here on a Visa because if I'm here on Visa, they need the Visa details). I think if there are actually laws that forbid companies from assessing the legality of a potential employees to work in the US, those laws need to be struck down. If there's no work here in the US for illegal aliens, then you've removed a major impetus for people trying to get here illegally.
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I appreciate that, Ikari, but here is the thing: I honestly do not think it is proper that folks are forced to present identifications in order to be allowed to work anywhere. One of the greatest things about the United States and most other free countries (at least Common Law countries), is that the state must ask our leave to impose its will upon us. We should not be forced to seek the permission of the state in order to work and sustain ourselves.

I think we cede a massive freedom to the government and help shift the relationship between citizen and government when we are forced to carry around a government-issued identification with which we will apparently require in order to live. At that point, the government and its officers are not acting as public servants, but as public masters. I think we must reevaluate this considerably before we allow the government to make such impositions upon us.
 
Felis Leo said:
I appreciate that, Ikari, but here is the thing: I honestly do not think it is proper that folks are forced to present identifications in order to be allowed to work anywhere. One of the greatest things about the United States and most other free countries (at least Common Law countries), is that the state must ask our leave to impose its will upon us. We should not be forced to seek the permission of the state in order to work and sustain ourselves.

I think we cede a massive freedom to the government and help shift the relationship between citizen and government when we are forced to carry around a government-issued identification with which we will apparently require in order to live. At that point, the government and its officers are not acting as public servants, but as public masters. I think we must reevaluate this considerably before we allow the government to make such impositions upon us.
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Well then you're going to have to be OK with illegal immigration.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Do you know how many people overstay their visa’s each year, or have any idea how many of them commit violent crimes? Chasing down visa overstays is not, and hasn’t been a priority for any administration. There are too many other pressing issues and limited resources.
The Washington murder was an anomaly. Terrible, but nonetheless an anomaly, and not the fault of anyone but the murderer.
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Thank you for inserting yourself with that useless comment, but I was responding to the multiple lies LouC was spouting:

"The scum sucking perps agricultural worker visa EXPIRED on President Donald Trump's watch!
Donald Trump failed to remove him, letting him run free as an illegal alien for nearly two years, come April of 2019."
 
Ikari said:
spinners gonna spin. You can't "pin them down" because they ignore all fact and logic. You can expose these sorts of Fake News threads, but those who support them will not care. Those who are paying attention already know. It's one of the problems when the system becomes so hyperpartisan that we've removed reason and logic.
Click to expand...

Agree about stopping the spinners and correcting the narrative for the indoctrinated. The spinners won’t stop and the indoctrinated are convinced of their cause. That leaves a larger group (I believe) who aren’t sure of facts and are open to manipulation. Publicly confronting lies and intentionally misleading half truths with actual verifiable facts is necessary to prevent the indoctrinated group from growing. That’s why Trump hates the free press so much.
 
Ikari said:
Well then you're going to have to be OK with illegal immigration.
Click to expand...

If the only way to stem the tide of illegal immigration is to grant greater power to the government and curb the freedom of all citizens through national identification, then certainly the miserable status quo must continue. But I do not believe that is the case. E-Verify is one solution, but having our nation's equivalent of uniformed gendarmes in jackboots asking citizens for their papers is not the solution that is required.
 
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Re: Another Police Officer Murdered by Illegal Immigrant...

The democrats doesn’t care about that
 
Felis Leo said:
If the only way to stem the tide of illegal immigration is to grant greater power to the government and curb the freedom of all citizens through national identification, then certainly the miserable status quo must continue. But I do not believe that is the case. E-Verify is one solution, but having uniformed gendarmes in jackboots asking citizens for their papers is not the solution that is required.
Click to expand...

Wasn't quite going that route, but I think perhaps the OP of this thread would. You seemed to have a problem with e-verify because it requests information and checks to ensure that one applying for a job is legally qualified to work here. If you want to impact the levels of illegal aliens (most of whom are those who over stay visas), then you need to affect the underlying causes for it. One of the biggest reasons here isn't running guns or drugs, though there are cartels that certainly do that. But rather it's employment, and right now there are not many incentives against the hiring of illegal aliens. If we are serious about impacting overall numbers, then we need a way to punish corporations for hiring folk who are not here legally or who cannot work here legally. Once you put an end to, or significantly impact, the hiring of illegal aliens, you remove a huge impetus for over staying visas.
 
Barnacle said:
Thank you for inserting yourself with that useless comment, but I was responding to the multiple lies LouC was spouting:

"The scum sucking perps agricultural worker visa EXPIRED on President Donald Trump's watch!
Donald Trump failed to remove him, letting him run free as an illegal alien for nearly two years, come April of 2019."
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1. This is a public forum. Everyone is free to opine on any other comment.
2. Not a “useless comment”. A needed clarification and course correction away from useless finger pointing, back to the actual issue.

You’re welcome.
 
Felis Leo said:
I appreciate that, Ikari, but here is the thing: I honestly do not think it is proper that folks are forced to present identifications in order to be allowed to work anywhere. One of the greatest things about the United States and most other free countries (at least Common Law countries), is that the state must ask our leave to impose its will upon us. We should not be forced to seek the permission of the state in order to work and sustain ourselves.

I think we cede a massive freedom to the government and help shift the relationship between citizen and government when we are forced to carry around a government-issued identification with which we will apparently require in order to live. At that point, the government and its officers are not acting as public servants, but as public masters. I think we must reevaluate this considerably before we allow the government to make such impositions upon us.
Click to expand...

We are way past that point. We are required to have identification for so many parts of our life that having it for work is moot.
 
Airyaman said:
The person from the first story lived in Ellensburg, Kittitas County, WA. This is not a sanctuary city or is it in a sanctuary county.

Maps: Sanctuary Cities, Counties, and States | Center for Immigration Studies

Thread fail.
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The one from the second DID...and the LEOs there BLAME IT FOR HIS DEATH.


Yeah...some "thread fail".

You think those are the ONLY ONES?


Here ya go! TEN MORE POLICE OFFICERS MURDERED BY ILLEGALS.


Now, hurry up and DOWNPLAY IT/DEFLECT FROM IT/IGNORE IT, as part of the left's ILLEGALS over AMERICANS policy.


How Many Of Our Police Officers Have Been Killed By Illegal Aliens ?


How Many Of Our Police Officers Have Been Killed By Illegal Aliens?
 
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And the LEFT CHOOSES ILLEGALS over LEOs...AGAIN....
 
Grokmaster said:
The one from the second DID...and the LEOs there BLAME IT FOR HIS DEATH.


Yeah...some "thread fail".
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Hey, not my fault your first link and first sentence failed to jive. That's on you.
 
Airyaman said:
Hey, not my fault your first link and first sentence failed to jive. That's on you.
Click to expand...

It's not my fault that the thread topic is "POLICE OFFICER MURDERED BY ILLEGAL", which BOTH LINKS SUPPORT.


Enjoy your failure...again.
 
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