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New favorite candidate: Pete Buttigieg

I think it's not a question of could, only a question of percentages...



I agree with your low opinion of Don and his mud slinging. It's never a good idea to compete with someone who acts like a child and enjoys making mud pies. As much as I like Saunders and love his proposals, I think Sander's would be the weakest candidate vs Trump. I think he's doing a great disservice to the Dem party.

Regardless of what the Dems, do, say, or nominate, they couldn't possibly energize The Cult more. Don has wound the stem of The Cult's watch until it won't move. They've never had someone who expresses their fear and hatred so often and crudely and it makes their hearts soar like an eagle.

Both sides are as energized as they can get. Dem nominees don't need to inspire or motivate their base with far left proposals. They're going to vote for anyone but Don regardless of whoever's on the ballot. If both sides are spoken for, it's all a question of how the majority of moderate conservatives and independents vote.

Pander to them, tell them what they want to hear, whatever it takes. We need them, the fate of our country is literally in their hands. Thankfully after watching the clown show for two years, we have most of them sewn up. Let's try not to piss them off with radical proposals, this isn't the time. We have to get our foot in the door before we can start moving the country in a better direction.

We won't know who'll have the best shot against Don until four to six months before the Dems choose their nominee. Let's wait until then before we make our decision. And for God's sake, I hope it's a practical, not inspirational choice.

Btw, why are only Dem candidates referred to by their first names? For Dems it might be an endearment thing, for The Cult, I think it's more of a unconscious or intended lack of respect thing, like calling a black man a boy...

The problem with your theory is that independents actually agree with progressives on their pillar policies per countless polls. In truth, it's the 'moderates' that need to win over the independents by leaning left, hence, virtually everyone who's anyone in the primary singing from the same hymn book of Medicare for All for example, even if they'll throw in reservations/qualifications. Yes, I've no doubt a big part of the motivation behind this posturing is the desire to gain support from the FDR/progressive wing, but no one sane would adopt policy that's utterly toxic at the national level for the sake of the primaries. Remember, independent doesn't mean 'centrist' or 'moderate', it means unaligned.
 
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The Obama years proved the right will attack the Democrats even if they offer olive branches. Obama served up centrist compromises year after year and they still called him a Kenyan Socialist Muslim Brotherhood Dictator.

Some of that could be racism, but, it's mostly partisan hatred, imo.

Exactly, support who you want and not who you think will win. All democratic candidates will be compared to Stalin so it doesn't really matter.
 
The problem with your theory is that independents actually agree with progressives on their pillar policies per countless polls. In truth, it's the 'moderates' that need to win over the independents by leaning left, hence, virtually everyone who's anyone in the primary singing from the same hymn book of Medicare for All for example, even if they'll throw in reservations/qualifications. Yes, I've no doubt a big part of the motivation behind this posturing is the desire to gain support from the FDR/progressive wing, but no one sane would adopt policy that's utterly toxic at the national level for the sake of the primaries. Remember, independent doesn't mean 'centrist' or 'moderate', it means unaligned.

Kind of off topic but vaguely related..

You know the right tried to smear Bernie with a video of him drunkenly singing "This Land is Your Land" with the Soviets.. I don't know if that is actually damaging with some demographics but, to someone like me it registers a "That's pretty badass." reaction. XD.
 
I heard he is gay, and I actually think that that is going to hold him back especially if he has boyfriend or husband campaigning with him. I expect really terrible comments and reactions.

What is your opinion of that as a Muslim?
 
Do we really need a butt plug in office?
 
The problem with your theory is that independents actually agree with progressives on their pillar policies per countless polls. In truth, it's the 'moderates' that need to win over the independents by leaning left, hence, virtually everyone who's anyone in the primary singing from the same hymn book of Medicare for All for example, even if they'll throw in reservations/qualifications. Yes, I've no doubt a big part of the motivation behind this posturing is the desire to gain support from the FDR/progressive wing, but no one sane would adopt policy that's utterly toxic at the national level for the sake of the primaries. Remember, independent doesn't mean 'centrist' or 'moderate', it means unaligned.

It's true that a majority of independents agree with the Medicare-for-all proposal, but not if there're reservations and qualifications. For example Harris's proposal for Medicare-for-all includes eliminating all private insurance. I don't think that's a good idea and most Americans agree;

"...after being told that a Medicare-for-all plan may eliminate all private health insurance companies, only 37% of all Americans still favored the proposal and 58% opposed it, according to the Kaiser poll..."

As much as I'd like to have Medicare-for-all, we're playing with fire when it comes to proposing specifics before the election. If Harris wants to eliminating all private insurance, she should propose it after she's been our president for a couple of years and has had time to talk it up.

You also didn't mention moderate conservative Repubs who're smart enough to know how dangerous a Don presidency is. We may need them too. It's not a question of moderates winning over independents or vice-versa, it's about the Dems needing to win over both...
 
It's true that a majority of independents agree with the Medicare-for-all proposal, but not if there're reservations and qualifications. For example Harris's proposal for Medicare-for-all includes eliminating all private insurance. I don't think that's a good idea and most Americans agree;

"...after being told that a Medicare-for-all plan may eliminate all private health insurance companies, only 37% of all Americans still favored the proposal and 58% opposed it, according to the Kaiser poll..."

As much as I'd like to have Medicare-for-all, we're playing with fire when it comes to proposing specifics before the election. If Harris wants to eliminating all private insurance, she should propose it after she's been our president for a couple of years and has had time to talk it up.

You also didn't mention moderate conservative Repubs who're smart enough to know how dangerous a Don presidency is. We may need them too. It's not a question of moderates winning over independents or vice-versa, it's about the Dems needing to win over both...

The Kaiser poll, beyond being a singular poll that starts out with abnormally low SP support relative to other polls, doesn't really mean anything when you consider that private insurers are still going to exist as supplemental providers because that's how it works in any singlepayer country.

Meanwhile, a CNN poll says that a majority supports MFA, even when it is conditional on them paying higher taxes: CNN Poll: Most think the government should provide a national health insurance program - CNNPolitics

The same poll reports that 1 in 5 think it should completely replace private insurers, and the good news is it won't; no SP system ever has. The MFA legislation that you are referring to only forbids duplication of services, not supplemental benefits.

Further, trying to pander to 'moderate' conservatives over the majoritarian national support is obviously foolhardy, but on that note, a Morning Consult survey shows majoritarian support even among _Republicans_: Majority of Republicans supports 'Medicare for all,' poll finds | TheHill

On the whole it seems clear, MFA and other such key progressive policy is an asset in the general, not a liability, and Democrats would be foolhardy to discard it. No one said we should get into overt specifics that will invariably mutate come the legislative process, but the broad strokes can certainly be built up.

Also as the Dem field presently stands, like it or not, Bernie is the most likely nominee and MFA is his baby; Kamala is just along for the ride, and to be honest, I think she's more posturing than serious about MFA.
 
Buttigieg is a very impressive guy. No doubt about that.

Could be a little before his time, though...not because he's gay, but because he's only mayor of a small midwest town. But you gotta love his future.

I don't have a favorite yet. Biden, Warren, Harris and Jay Inslee are all appealing. I, for one, believe John Kerry would still be a terrific POTUS.

People are quick to draw comparisons between Beto and Obama, but Obama was a policy wonk who presented massive, detailed policy papers for every aspect of his campaign. Beto is certainly inspirational, but he seems to be a little light in the britches, imo. Unlike with the GOP'ers, a campaign based upon personality, and lacking in policies and plans, etc....has a limited shelf-life in the Democratic Party. Democrats and Liberals love policy, because they respect and appreciate the role of government in our society. Beto, so far, offers a lot of great ideals, but doesn't seem to offer much substance.

I think Sanders and Castro will be, at the very least, extremely valuable to the dialogue and agenda/platfrom that ultimately is adopted by the party during the convention.

The others (Gilibrand, Klobuchar, Booker, Gabbard, Hickenlooper, etc.) don't seem to have found a singular issue upon which to gain a strong foothold in the campaign. At least, not yet.

Red:
If one thinks his ideas strong, his character noble, and his approach fitting, then this time is the time to vote for him and make it be his time.

That is, after all, the point of the primaries -- to vote for the person one truly likes best on that person's merits.
 
...Also as the Dem field presently stands, like it or not, Bernie is the most likely nominee and MFA is his baby; Kamala is just along for the ride, and to be honest, I think she's more posturing than serious about MFA.

...If one thinks his ideas strong, his character noble...

...That is, after all, the point of the primaries -- to vote for the person one truly likes best on that person's merits.

Let me guess, neither of you voted for Hillary?
 
It's true that a majority of independents agree with the Medicare-for-all proposal, but not if there're reservations and qualifications. For example Harris's proposal for Medicare-for-all includes eliminating all private insurance. I don't think that's a good idea and most Americans agree;

...


Red:
See, that folks have any concern over that happening strikes me as ridiculous. What is Congress going to do? Pass a law prohibiting firms from offering health insurance? I seriously doubt it. Thus so long as firms can offer health insurance, some will find a profitable way to do so and, in turn, offer it.

Consider water. Pretty much everywhere one goes, there's free potable water available, and it's provided by firms holding governmentally sanctioned monopolies. Do firms yet offer water? Damn skippy, they do, and they make good money doing it, from the individual bottles to multi-gallon dispensaries. Indeed, not only are there sellers of "basic" water, there are too sellers of flavored water, i.e., differentiated water; moreover, of course, one doesn't even need to actually use "city water" to supply one's basic water needs.

When one thinks about so-called "Medicare for All," i.e., health insurance, in terms of what that really means -- converting the health insurance market to that of natural monopoly -- a wealth of options open up and the question becomes one of apportioning insureds among the providers (if there're more than one) all of whom provide an undifferentiated product that provides whatever be the minimum level of coverage the citizenry demands.

In what context may one think of "minimum level of coverage?" Well, electricity distribution, yet another natural monopoly, provides a fine example. When one retrofits an old home with, say, an induction stovetop, one of the things one must do is have the electric company, effectively, move one from the electric company's version of a "lazy stream" to a "babbling brook" (i.e., drop a line having more amps) so the flow of electricity one receives comports with what the induction stovetop needs. Of course, some buildings sit on what one might think of as "white water rapids" and others on a veritable "waterfall."

Using the above analogy with regard to "minimum level of coverage," one sees that another aspect of Medicare for All (natural monopoly health insurance provision) that can be managed in a variety of ways is the amount of coverage one buys, recognizing that like electricity, everyone's gets at least coverage that pays for for a defined bundle of procedures and remedies. That's just like every home having at least a 30 amp feed from the electric company. People who want to can buy "more flow," that is, more coverage, either from Medicare or from private insurers.

So what I'm saying is that one must think about the matter, not in terms of what one's used to -- most especially, but not only, the word "Medicare;" simply replace it with "health insurance" -- but rather in terms of the product being offered, the market structure in which it's offered, and the design of the product itself. Then one can begin to brainstorm natural monopoly (health insurance for All) health insurance delivery models.

Lastly, one should also disabuse oneself of the notion that the government is incapable of operating a profitable and efficient business-style entity. The federal government operates the USPS, and it does so without a single tax penny, and its performance at delivering "as advertised" is amazingly good. That is why, for example, during the shutdown, you continued to receive US mail delivery. The USPS isn't the only self-funding government unit. So is the Federal Reserve, which is why banks stayed open. (The only reason banks close on government holidays is because their bank, the Fed, is closed.) There are several other self-funding federal organizations.


Note:
If you haven't a strong economics background, I suggest you click on the "natural monopoly" link above and consume the content found on the linked webpage. Although the word "monopoly" is there, natural monopoly is a very different thing from a monopoly firm such as Standard Oil.
 
If one thinks his ideas strong, his character noble, and his approach fitting, then this time is the time to vote for him and make it be his time.

That is, after all, the point of the primaries -- to vote for the person one truly likes best on that person's merits.

Let me guess, neither of you voted for Hillary?

I didn't vote for anyone in the Democratic primary because I'm not a Democrat; DC's primaries are "members only."
 
I didn't vote for anyone in the Democratic primary because I'm not a Democrat; DC's primaries are "members only."

I was referring to the general election...
 
Let me guess, neither of you voted for Hillary?

I voted for her, albeit very reluctantly after the debacle concerning the DNC fully came to light.
 
I was referring to the general election...

I guess you rarely read my posts....Yes, I voted for Hillary.


I voted for Ford, Reagan, and then Bush XLVI the first time. Then I voted for Clinton, and wished I had not voted for Bush II the second time around. I willingly voted for Obama and I voted for Clinton II. I voted for her because Trump strikes me as a contemptible orgy of vulgarity masquerading, with the natural grace of an intoxicated beluga whale, as a human being who, when it comes to deep public policy awareness and integrity, is all hat and no cattle, and who surrounds himself with people who, when he lies, they swear to it, he believes it, and has, moreover, the temerity to presume the rest of us are too myopic to tell he's anything other than a miserable scoundrel and a naive maladjusted libertine delinquent overcome with delusions of adequacy.
-- Xelor, "Hello. My name is Xelor."​
 
Red:
See, that folks have any concern over that happening strikes me as ridiculous. What is Congress going to do? Pass a law prohibiting firms from offering health insurance? I seriously doubt it. Thus so long as firms can offer health insurance, some will find a profitable way to do so and, in turn, offer it.

Consider water. Pretty much everywhere one goes, there's free potable water available, and it's provided by firms holding governmentally sanctioned monopolies. Do firms yet offer water? Damn skippy, they do, and they make good money doing it, from the individual bottles to multi-gallon dispensaries. Indeed, not only are there sellers of "basic" water, there are too sellers of flavored water, i.e., differentiated water; moreover, of course, one doesn't even need to actually use "city water" to supply one's basic water needs.

When one thinks about so-called "Medicare for All," i.e., health insurance, in terms of what that really means -- converting the health insurance market to that of natural monopoly -- a wealth of options open up and the question becomes one of apportioning insureds among the providers (if there're more than one) all of whom provide an undifferentiated product that provides whatever be the minimum level of coverage the citizenry demands.

In what context may one think of "minimum level of coverage?" Well, electricity distribution, yet another natural monopoly, provides a fine example. When one retrofits an old home with, say, an induction stovetop, one of the things one must do is have the electric company, effectively, move one from the electric company's version of a "lazy stream" to a "babbling brook" (i.e., drop a line having more amps) so the flow of electricity one receives comports with what the induction stovetop needs. Of course, some buildings sit on what one might think of as "white water rapids" and others on a veritable "waterfall."

Using the above analogy with regard to "minimum level of coverage," one sees that another aspect of Medicare for All (natural monopoly health insurance provision) that can be managed in a variety of ways is the amount of coverage one buys, recognizing that like electricity, everyone's gets at least coverage that pays for for a defined bundle of procedures and remedies. That's just like every home having at least a 30 amp feed from the electric company. People who want to can buy "more flow," that is, more coverage, either from Medicare or from private insurers.

So what I'm saying is that one must think about the matter, not in terms of what one's used to -- most especially, but not only, the word "Medicare;" simply replace it with "health insurance" -- but rather in terms of the product being offered, the market structure in which it's offered, and the design of the product itself. Then one can begin to brainstorm natural monopoly (health insurance for All) health insurance delivery models.

Lastly, one should also disabuse oneself of the notion that the government is incapable of operating a profitable and efficient business-style entity. The federal government operates the USPS, and it does so without a single tax penny, and its performance at delivering "as advertised" is amazingly good. That is why, for example, during the shutdown, you continued to receive US mail delivery. The USPS isn't the only self-funding government unit. So is the Federal Reserve, which is why banks stayed open. (The only reason banks close on government holidays is because their bank, the Fed, is closed.) There are several other self-funding federal organizations.


Note:
If you haven't a strong economics background, I suggest you click on the "natural monopoly" link above and consume the content found on the linked webpage. Although the word "monopoly" is there, natural monopoly is a very different thing from a monopoly firm such as Standard Oil.

I'm all for it, I just don't want to loose an election over a bad sales pitch for a Med-for-all plan. Everyone has their own opinion about how to go about this, but if it were up to me, I'd continue to use polling data to plan how to sell and pass the legislation. We all know polls don't always get it right, there're generally more right than wrong...
 
I'm all for it, I just don't want to loose an election over a bad sales pitch for a Med-for-all plan. Everyone has their own opinion about how to go about this, but if it were up to me, I'd continue to use polling data to plan how to sell and pass the legislation. We all know polls don't always get it right, there're generally more right than wrong...

Red:
I understand why one'd take that approach and I acknowledge it as a valid one; however, it doesn't comport with the theory/practice of governance to which I ascribe.


Blue:
I agree.
 
I guess you rarely read my posts....Yes, I voted for Hillary.


I voted for Ford, Reagan, and then Bush XLVI the first time. Then I voted for Clinton, and wished I had not voted for Bush II the second time around. I willingly voted for Obama and I voted for Clinton II. I voted for her because Trump strikes me as a contemptible orgy of vulgarity masquerading, with the natural grace of an intoxicated beluga whale, as a human being who, when it comes to deep public policy awareness and integrity, is all hat and no cattle, and who surrounds himself with people who, when he lies, they swear to it, he believes it, and has, moreover, the temerity to presume the rest of us are too myopic to tell he's anything other than a miserable scoundrel and a naive maladjusted libertine delinquent overcome with delusions of adequacy.
-- Xelor, "Hello. My name is Xelor."​

I read 95% of your posts and agree with you 80 to 90% of the time. You sure got it right about Trump, for most Cult members it's, 'if I believe it, it's not a lie'...
 
I read 95% of your posts and agree with you 80 to 90% of the time. You sure got it right about Trump, for most Cult members it's, 'if I believe it, it's not a lie'...

Red:
I appreciate your doing so; moreover, thanks for the generosity you've shown in saying so.
 
I still think Bernie is the strongest candidate vs. Trump. Anyone who tries to play Trump's game is going to lose. Trump can say indefensible horrible, non-factual things and the ignorant rubes will bend over and obey. People on the left actually care about accuracy and morality. So, if you engage Trump in the mud slinging, my theory is that it's going to energize the Trump base, because they love that ****. But, if you're basically a broken record on policy like Bernie Sanders is, Trump has no defense on that. Trump is 100% ignorant on policy and 100% unable to feel compassion or empathy towards other humans. So, he struggles connecting dots on what bad policy actually does to people. He'll basically have conspiracies, slander, and standard right wing talking points. If Sanders is just a left wing golem animated to speak Medicare-For-All, Climate Change, and Corruption, I think Sanders takes it with a walk off home run.

Quite possibly the most accurate description of Bernie that I have seen. You could easily make a drinking game out of the debates by taking a swig every time he says 1%. I'm not sure many would be able to walk by the end of it.
 
Insofar as that thought even crossed your mind....I'm just sayin'.....Not a lot of folks so much as even think of butt plugs.

So I take it you're not a collector?
 
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