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Here's where social progressives take us

OlNate said:
Gotta argue, no, it's a totally different scenario. In his, it's a woman and a boy getting into it, it's happening in America, not Australia, it's bringing in the MAGA hat, which comes with it's own baggage...there are a lot of things going on in there.

But as I said, I'd think that her letting go of a punch in retaliation for a cracked egg would be inappropriate too.
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It's not a different scenario unless of course you think one side's free speech is more important than the other's.
 
Lutherf said:
Senator Who Hit Egg Boy Should 'Feel Full Force of Law'



The kid commits assault. The senator smacks the kid. The PM is saying that the senator is in the wrong.

The video is there to see.

Maybe Anning was using the massacre for some political grandstanding but that doesn't warrant assault and it's shameful that Morrison would effectively condone violence against another politician with whom he has an ideological difference.
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Let us put aside the partisanship for a moment. People who think it is okay to physically engage with people they dislike on account of those people holding horrible opinions or saying horrible things lose any sympathy I would have otherwise had for them. If you throw an egg or punch someone who says nasty things, and they turn around and throw an even better, well-placed punch, do not come crying to me.
 
trixare4kids said:
Just like on TV, if we don't like listening to particular pundits, whose politics don't coincide with our own, whose fault is it should we become provoked?--- (rhetorical question) ;)
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The piece of **** was saying Muslims shoot be expected to be gunned down in their place of worship for immigrating to New Zealand. Letting a mainstream politician speak openly like that is how you get White Supremacists the conviction to go out and gun down Muslims in their place of worship.
 
OlNate said:
He's a politician. :shrug: Last I heard, the police said both were being investigated.
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That's what the police always do. Investigate to see if charges are warranted against the aggressor, the 17 year old teen.
The kid was arrested, the senator wasn't.

IMO, nothing will come of this.
 
CMPancake said:
The piece of **** was saying Muslims shoot be expected to be gunned down in their place of worship for immigrating to New Zealand. Letting a mainstream politician speak openly like that is how you get White Supremacists the conviction to go out and gun down Muslims in their place of worship.
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So you are for censoring free speech... The right to freedom of speech is not explicitly protected by common law in New Zealand but is encompassed in a wide range of doctrines aimed at protecting free speech. ... “Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the right to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form”.

Same goes with Australia: The Senator is Australian.
Constitutional law protection. The Australian Constitution does not explicitly protect freedom of expression. However, the High Court has held that an implied freedom of political communication exists as an indispensible part of the system of representative and responsible government created by the Constitution.

 It's okay to verbally condemn and rebuke that speech, but throw an egg at the speaker is not okay.

Btw, if you think you're going to say I am in love with this anti-immigrant senator's views, 'you be wrong.'
 
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Felis Leo said:
Let us put aside the partisanship for a moment. People who think it is okay to physically engage with people they dislike on account of those people holding horrible opinions or saying horrible things lose any sympathy I would have otherwise had for them. If you throw an egg or punch someone who says nasty things, and they turn around and throw an even better, well-placed punch, do not come crying to me.
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I'm not against the Senator going and swinging back at the kid. That's a perfectly reasonable reaction to getting an egg slapped onto your head. My issue is that people are saying that we should condone hate speech and racism when the only thing that has come of condoning that speech has been mass shooters and terrorists for White Nationalism.
 
trixare4kids said:
So you are for censoring free speech...
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I ain't censoring ****. You're more than entitled to spew racism, and bigotry. You're free to blame the mosque shooting victims on immigrants because you don't like brown people. But say that near anybody with a lick of morality and they'll slap you upside the head because historically politicians spewing racism has lead to fascism. Racists and fascists shouldn't feel safe spewing racism. I understand that it's paradoxal to condemn fascist rhetoric with violence but it's shown to be the only viable solution.

trixare4kids said:
The right to freedom of speech is not explicitly protected by common law in New Zealand but is encompassed in a wide range of doctrines aimed at protecting free speech. ...
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Cool, that's irrelevant. Egg boy isn't a government official. He was a kid who heard some absolutely henious nonsense come out of a grown man's mouth and smacked that racist with an egg.
 
Felis Leo said:
Let us put aside the partisanship for a moment. People who think it is okay to physically engage with people they dislike on account of those people holding horrible opinions or saying horrible things lose any sympathy I would have otherwise had for them. If you throw an egg or punch someone who says nasty things, and they turn around and throw an even better, well-placed punch, do not come crying to me.
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Exactly. We already went through this with the Westboro Baptist Church. They are the scumbags who protest at veteran's funerals and have made a living by fomenting hate then suing the people who succumb to that hate. One aspect of living in a free society is that people will end up being free to do and say things you disagree with. Where there is no disagreement there is no liberty...period. Assaulting people because you disagree with them is, effectively, an exercise in limiting liberty, not embracing liberty.
 
trixare4kids said:
It's not a different scenario unless of course you think one side's free speech is more important than the other's.
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I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion. I said both individuals should be charged for the escalation in violence. Also, being a politician comes with certain perks, one of them being that a tossed or crunched egg isn't likely to limit your freedom of speech. They also have security teams that are there to handle these kind of altercations professionally.

I think the big problem here is the inflation of the egg. No, it was definitely not cool, and the kid should have expected consequences, he weighed them out, and made his decision. He took a risk to make a point. But while throwing an egg was a mischievous gesture, and one that should come with consequences, it's not like he punched the guy. However "the guy" did punch him, which, again, is an escalation.

Sorry, I'm just trying to understand...is it your perception that the politician did nothing wrong in punching the kid?
 
CMPancake said:
I'm not against the Senator going and swinging back at the kid. That's a perfectly reasonable reaction to getting an egg slapped onto your head. My issue is that people are saying that we should condone hate speech and racism when the only thing that has come of condoning that speech has been mass shooters and terrorists for White Nationalism.
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Only those who are of the same political belief as this senator condone his hate speech and racism.
Get real. Nobody on this thread cheers the senator on, only that his speech rights trump being stomped out by an intolerant, egg tossing teen are speech rights that should remain protected.
 
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CMPancake said:
I'm not against the Senator going and swinging back at the kid. That's a perfectly reasonable reaction to getting an egg slapped onto your head. My issue is that people are saying that we should condone hate speech and racism when the only thing that has come of condoning that speech has been mass shooters and terrorists for White Nationalism.
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If by "condoning" you mean he has not been legally prosecuted for holding and spouting these horrible opinions, and you believe he should be prosecuted, I must disagree. I think virulently offensive opinions should not be criminally prosecuted because I do not want to give the government power of censorship and prior restraint over society. We have seen how it has quickly become abused time and time again in otherwise advanced societies. But if by refusing to "condone" you mean that we should not vote for such hateful politicians, and they should be the subject of hatred, scorn and obloquy of their peers, I totally agree with you CMPanckake. Let him be booted from office by voters who can find a better candidate to take his place.
 
OlNate said:
I'm not sure how you draw that conclusion. I said both individuals should be charged for the escalation in violence. Also, being a politician comes with certain perks, one of them being that a tossed or crunched egg isn't likely to limit your freedom of speech. They also have security teams that are there to handle these kind of altercations professionally.

I think the big problem here is the inflation of the egg. No, it was definitely not cool, and the kid should have expected consequences, he weighed them out, and made his decision. He took a risk to make a point. But while throwing an egg was a mischievous gesture, and one that should come with consequences, it's not like he punched the guy. However "the guy" did punch him, which, again, is an escalation.

Sorry, I'm just trying to understand...is it your perception that the politician did nothing wrong in punching the kid?
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At this point, I will agree to disagree with you.
I wasn't there so I have no idea how the senator felt when being initially attacked by the kid.
Maybe he thought there was a lot more coming than an egg...
 
trixare4kids said:
Only those who are of the same political belief as this senator condone his hate speech and racism.
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And as I said earlier, those in the same spectrum as the Senator are going to protect the senator's hate speech so they can later protect themselves when they say something just a click or two less racist than the Senator.

trixare4kids said:
Get real. Nobody on this thread cheers the senator on, only that his speech rights trump being stomped out by an intolerant, egg tossing teen.
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If only you had the same zeal, and animosity for people who blame Muslims for the victims of a White Nationalist shooting that you did for eggs. Then we wouldn't have situations in which kids have to go around and slapping racists with eggs.
 
CMPancake said:
I ain't censoring ****. You're more than entitled to spew racism, and bigotry. You're free to blame the mosque shooting victims on immigrants because you don't like brown people. But say that near anybody with a lick of morality and they'll slap you upside the head because historically politicians spewing racism has lead to fascism. Racists and fascists shouldn't feel safe spewing racism. I understand that it's paradoxal to condemn fascist rhetoric with violence but it's shown to be the only viable solution.



Cool, that's irrelevant. Egg boy isn't a government official. He was a kid who heard some absolutely henious nonsense come out of a grown man's mouth and smacked that racist with an egg.
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You are completely lost.
You won't see me taking your brainless bait.
 
CMPancake said:
And as I said earlier, those in the same spectrum as the Senator are going to protect the senator's hate speech so they can later protect themselves when they say something just a click or two less racist than the Senator.



If only you had the same zeal, and animosity for people who blame Muslims for the victims of a White Nationalist shooting that you did for eggs. Then we wouldn't have situations in which kids have to go around and slapping racists with eggs.
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Go away.
I am done with you.
 
trixare4kids said:
That's what the police always do. Investigate to see if charges are warranted against the aggressor, the 17 year old teen.
The kid was arrested, the senator wasn't.

IMO, nothing will come of this.
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Re: the bolded... I tend to agree - nothing legally, anyway. But punching a kid for standing up to his bigotted rhetoric isn't going to bode well for the politician come election time, I would guess. Here's hoping, anyway.
 
Felis Leo said:
If by "condoning" you mean he has not been legally prosecuted for holding and spouting these horrible opinions, and you believe he should be prosecuted, I must disagree.
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I don't think the Senator should be criminally prosecuted for his opinions, or for even swinging on egg boy. He's well within his rights to spout racism and defend himself when a kid corrects him for spewing racism.

Felis Leo said:
I think virulently offensive opinions should not be criminally prosecuted because I do not want to give the government power of censorship and prior restraint over society.
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I agree entirely.

Felis Leo said:
We have seen how it has quickly become abused time and time again in otherwise advanced societies. But if by refusing to "condone" you mean that we should not vote for such hateful politicians, and they should be the subject of hatred, scorn and obloquy of their peers, I totally agree with you CMPanckake. Let him be booted from office by voters who can find a better candidate to take his place.
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And I continue to agree, let the voters boot this piece of **** out of office. But until then, egg him, and egg people like him who think the victims of a mass shooting are to blame for being shot by a White Nationalist.
 
trixare4kids said:
You are completely lost.
You won't see me taking your brainless bait.
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I understand that context is difficult for you to understand, but I'm not saying you directly are spewing racism and bigotry. I'm stating that you are allowed to do so as a whole. You, me, the Senator, anybody. Just don't be surprised to get egged if you use that speech to be a deplorable racist.
 
OlNate said:
Re: the bolded... I tend to agree - nothing legally, anyway. But punching a kid for standing up to his bigotted rhetoric isn't going to bode well for the politician come election time, I would guess. Here's hoping, anyway.
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I'm in total agreement.
However, attempts by the PC crowd, and liberal politicians who call to censor the far right wing senator, and this might all boomerang at the polls. ::pun:: ;)
 
trixare4kids said:
At this point, I will agree to disagree with you.
I wasn't there so I have no idea how the senator felt when being initially attacked by the kid.
Maybe he thought there was a lot more coming than an egg...
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That's cool....though I just agreed with you in my last post, so I'm feeling a little ripped off... ;)

Only thing I'll say is if the good senator is so nervous about the consequences of the **** he talks, perhaps he should reexamine his ideologies, and make some changes. There are lots of things I believe in that I'd be willing to wear a little egg over without turning into the Incredible Hulk. hehe
 
trixare4kids said:
I'm in total agreement.
However, attempts by the PC crowd, and liberal politicians who call to censor the far right wing senator, and this might all boomerang at the polls. ::pun:: ;)
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lmao...ok, feeling less ripped off now. :lol: ;)

Nice pun, too. Though not nice enough to make me stop hoping his approval rating goes down under, and he's forced to walkabout out of there.

PS: I am officially the funniest man alive.
 
CMPancake said:
I understand that context is difficult for you to understand, but I'm not saying you directly are spewing racism and bigotry. I'm stating that you are allowed to do so as a whole. You, me, the Senator, anybody. Just don't be surprised to get egged if you use that speech to be a deplorable racist.
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Nothing wrong with my ability to decipher context. Your pov comes across ignorantly.
Learn a few simple rhetorical tools. Write, you, the collective you or couch your statements by saying, one who spews racism and bigotry, blah, blah. blah...

And I disagree that people should ever be egged for their speech. Booed, yes, seriously condemned, yes, but like it or not, tossing an egg on someone's head is violence, albeit, not severe violence, but it still is a violent act and that is much worse than the crap coming out of an elected's mouth.
 
Mycroft said:
An assault doesn't have to put a person's life in danger.

Here's the definition of the word: Assault | Definition of Assault by Merriam-Webster
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Like I said, grow a pair. It's a friggin' harmless egg that you're getting hysterical about! And so what? In your country you can get arrested for crossing the street in the wrong place! What a country!
People break laws to make political points all the time; how do you think women's suffrage was achieved. By staying home and writing sternly worded letters to the press? No, they got up close and personal and forced the issue.
 
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