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If Trump loses in 2020 will he be remembered as a failure?

SonOfDaedalus said:
If Trump loses in 2020 will he be remembered as a one-term failure like Jimmy Carter and Bush I?
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I'm not so sure he will run for reelection.

It depends on who the Democratic nominee is. If it's Sanders or Warren, he'll give it a shot and see where the chips fall. OTOH, if Biden or Harris get the nod, he'll run like a bitch, because he knows he'll get massacred across the country and then be a "loser" on the biggest stage in the world, and there's no way he'll let that happen knowingly.
 
When it is all said and done I don't think he will make much of a mark on the history books. Everybody likes talking about his insane tweets and behavior now but 30 years from now nobody is going to care about such irrelevant things. If he wants to be remembered for policies or anything substantive he better get to work because as of now his legacy is a nothing burger.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
When it is all said and done I don't think he will make much of a mark on the history books. Everybody likes talking about his insane tweets and behavior now but 30 years from now nobody is going to care about such irrelevant things. If he wants to be remembered for policies or anything substantive he better get to work because as of now his legacy is a nothing burger.
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It's all his tax cut.

His legacy is letting a bunch of rich ******** get away with all the loot.

How are we going to pull this back to center?

How are we going to start making rules that make sense, not just flipping back and forth from one ideology to another like a pan fish on the pavement with a hook in its mouth?
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
The economy wasn't anywhere near as terrible as it is today.

Example:
1977, I just arrived in Minneapolis, starving student, took a PART TIME job as a dishwasher in a greasy spoon diner.
My take home pay was approximately 300 bucks a month, maybe 350 if they gave me extra hours.

I was able to afford a sardine can one room apartment, about 120 sq ft, for $110 a month, and it had a bathroom and a kitchenette built into one wall. I made extra money playing in a band a few nights a week so I was really bringing home about 400-500 a month most of the time.
I could afford my rent, gas for my jalopy pickup truck, food, clothes, the electric bill, and even a phone. (basic service only)

The oil crisis started in 1973 (Arab Oil Embargo) and by 1976 Texas was pumping so much West Texas crude that we told the Saudis to shove it up their ass. 1976 was the year the movie "Urban Cowboy" came out, and my brother was working in the oil business right in the Texas town where it was filmed. It was a pretty accurate depiction of life down there at the time.

So by 1976..."Oil crisis? What oil crisis?"

And I don't know any dishwashers who can afford an apartment, food, clothing, fuel and utilities on a minimum wage salary today.

Today's economy is terrific if you're making a lot of money.
If you're an average working stiff, it's worse than it's ever been.
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That's why the jobless rate is low, people have to hold onto two jobs to be able to afford their mortgage, food, clothes and medicine for their families.
 
HumblePi said:
That's why the jobless rate is low, people have to hold onto two jobs to be able to afford their mortgage, food, clothes and medicine for their families.
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Even if that is not quite the case (some BLS figures dispute it) the fact is, A LOT of the new jobs are minimum wage or very low wage, and the cost of living is still skyrocketing anyway.
It is the DESPAIR QUOTIENT.

Liberal economics seeks to reduce the despair quotient by egalitarian efforts.
The result makes for a healthier economy for all.
 
In the long run, it will be more the era that will be remembers for the transitions leading to the decline of the United States as the top economic and military world power to an impoverished socialist nation for which all wealth and power in in the hands of a few super rich and top government officials:

1. The American press and media shifted from being independent to being advertising and propaganda outlets of the global super rich.
2. When the true battle by the Democratic Party and global super rich MSM to convert the USA from capitalism to socialism.
3. The USA ceasing to be an independent nation to just one state of a global government.

When President Trump's term ends in either 2020 or 2024 it will signal the end of the USA as predominantly a capitalistic economy and nationalistic government to a socialistic society and anti-nationalism government - and a rapid expansion of the federal police state.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
The lower middle class and working poor in today's economy are under acute financial stress.
You cannot ignore that issue just because the upper classes are doing well.
An economy where there is a wide gap between those doing well and the average working family is not a healthy economy, even if it shows good "numbers".

Such an economy is thought to be semi-feudal in nature and characteristics.
The plantation economy of the old Antebellum South exhibited incredible displays of wealth but significant numbers of both white and black families endured shocking poverty. The old Antebellum South is remembered fondly by those who enjoyed life in the ownership and stewardship class on the plantation and the mercantilists, not so much by the illiterate dirt farmers.
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I don't disagree with anything you're written here, but it is a complex issue comprising many factors. The rise of single-parent families, with many women choosing to have kids at an early age out of wedlock; the decline of unions and plentiful opportunities in manufacturing for people with limited skills or education; substance abuse; the rising cost of renting a home or apartment; the rising cost of medical care; day care expenses; etc.
 
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SonOfDaedalus said:
People blame politicians for the economy but there are really so many economic factors that are outside anyone's control.
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I would suggest you read up on Nixon's wage and price freezes. It was an unmitigated disaster and was the direct result of Nixon's desire to put a lid on inflation. He did it twice and both times it resulted in uncontrolled inflation.
 
Ahlevah said:
Won't happen. Democrats are determined to write a sequel to their 1972 campaign. They've done a good job resuscitating the McCarthy wing.

Nixon Wins Landslide Victory; Democrats Hold Senate, House
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No Republican, especially Trump, can win by a landslide today. The last time a Republican won by a strong margin was in 1988. 30-31 years ago. Last two GOP presidents (Bush Jr. and Trump), won their elections by razor thin margins.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
When it is all said and done I don't think he will make much of a mark on the history books. Everybody likes talking about his insane tweets and behavior now but 30 years from now nobody is going to care about such irrelevant things. If he wants to be remembered for policies or anything substantive he better get to work because as of now his legacy is a nothing burger.
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This. I suspect down the line most Republicans (politicians AND voters), will pretend that they never voted or supported him in the first place. Like his Republican predecessor Bush Jr., he'll be remembered as a failure of a president, who will be a footnote in Republican political history. At most he'll be remembered as the direct backlash to America electing it's first black/bi-racial president, but besides that, nothing else. He won't be revered in the future by the GOP the way Reagan or Eisenhower is, that's for sure. Then again, if he's as corrupt as I and many people believe him to be, he may end up having an even worse legacy than Nixon.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
If Trump loses in 2020 will he be remembered as a one-term failure like Jimmy Carter and Bush I?
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Win or lose a second term doesn't seal the deal of society view of success and failure. How do many view the George W. Bush presidency?
 
joko104 said:
In the long run, it will be more the era that will be remembers for the transitions leading to the decline of the United States as the top economic and military world power to an impoverished socialist nation for which all wealth and power in in the hands of a few super rich and top government officials:

1. The American press and media shifted from being independent to being advertising and propaganda outlets of the global super rich.
2. When the true battle by the Democratic Party and global super rich MSM to convert the USA from capitalism to socialism.
3. The USA ceasing to be an independent nation to just one state of a global government.

When President Trump's term ends in either 2020 or 2024 it will signal the end of the USA as predominantly a capitalistic economy and nationalistic government to a socialistic society and anti-nationalism government - and a rapid expansion of the federal police state.
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Even more posting of opinions devoid of any facts, as usual.
You are not an expert in sociology, and far from an actual psychologist.
Lacking any facts, this post is pure speculation that is poorly executed as well.
 
There will be no unbiased and honest accounting of Trump's presidency and nobody should expect one. That will be true regardless of how many terms he serves.
 
Ahlevah said:
I don't disagree with anything you're written here, but it is a complex issue comprising many factors. The rise of single-parent families, with many women choosing to have kids at an early age out of wedlock; the decline of unions and plentiful opportunities in manufacturing for people with limited skills or education; substance abuse; the rising cost of renting a home or apartment; the rising cost of medical care; day care expenses; etc.
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Of course it's a complex issue. That's why we can NOT run an economy based on a couple of feel good buzz words.
For the folks making it in the upper middle class, leave em alone, they're happy where they're at.
For the folks further down on the bottom rungs, leaving them alone is a bad idea...they need a little bit of help.
Not a gigantic PILE of help, we don't owe them a life of luxury, they know that...just make it possible for them to climb back out of the rut they're in. Reduce "the Despair Quotient" and a lot of our other problems will able to slowly and surely heal to some extent. It is the generational despair that is the strongest poison.

Our unions need to be rethought, and management needs to rethink its relationship WITH the unions.
For maybe the very first time in American history, maybe management needs to try a German style relationship with labor unions, and our labor unions must put aside the old adversarial roles and be willing to do it the German way too.

The big industrialists of the Gilded Age would never tolerate a cooperative relationship with organized labor, which is why unions wound up becoming so damn political in this country in the first place.

The old limited skills blue collar jobs are going to remain at an all time low and get even more scarce, because AI and advanced robotics will ultimately eliminate almost all of those jobs eventually. We either invest in the expense of skills training and advanced education or we will surely pay ten times the cost as a result of generational level ignorance.
An entire generation of ignorance will dwarf the cost of training and educating our future workforce.
 
Puigb said:
but you posted a link to Nixon winning in a landslide, so...
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Okay, but the main point I wanted people to take from that was when the Democratic party made a dramatic left turn it cost them the presidency.
 
Ahlevah said:
Okay, but the main point I wanted people to take from that was when the Democratic party made a dramatic left turn it cost them the presidency.
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That was then. 2019 is a vastly different America.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
If Trump loses in 2020 will he be remembered as a one-term failure like Jimmy Carter and Bush I?
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NO

He will be remembered for being the last president to sound the alarm at what was happening to the country but was defeated by the media, academia, and the deep state because he stepped on their toes.

In a hundred years' time, the United States of America will likely be a dystopia.
 
SonOfDaedalus said:
If Trump loses in 2020 will he be remembered as a one-term failure like Jimmy Carter and Bush I?
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He will be remembered as a failure no matter what happens in 2020.

Please do not compare him with Carter and Bush 41. Carter was not my favorite President by any stretch. I voted for the first time in 1980 and voted for Reagan with enthusiasm. But Carter was a good man, a smart man, and an honorable man.

I voted for Bush 41 twice and am proud to say that. He was a war hero, and also an honorable man.

Trump isn't fit to wipe the feet of Carter or Bush.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
When it is all said and done I don't think he will make much of a mark on the history books. Everybody likes talking about his insane tweets and behavior now but 30 years from now nobody is going to care about such irrelevant things. If he wants to be remembered for policies or anything substantive he better get to work because as of now his legacy is a nothing burger.
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I'm going to vehemently disagree with you Bob, for quite a few reasons.

Thus far Trump's "accomplishments" are limited to rolling back Obama's EOs and pulling out of the Paris Accord and the Iran Nuclear deal. Pulling out of something isn't an accomplishment, although it would have been an accomplishment if his father had pulled out the night he was conceived.

Trump is President in the era where everything he says, does, and Tweets is captured for anyone's interpretation down the road. We don't have Franklin Pierce or Benjamin Harrison on video. We can only judge their Presidencies based on what can be proven via legislation and true victories (like winning a war or successfully growing the country). Their personalities and words are only available to us in very limited, VERY limited, quantities, and mostly then only in official records.

All Presidents who appeared on television or on the "internet" in any way shape and form can be viewed as the people that they were. That really didn't start until FDR and since then, and going forward, the personality of the person will also be taken into account.

Trump's antics are amusing today to his loyal fans, but in generations to come, they will be viewed as ignorant and clownish.
 
Puigb said:
That was then. 2019 is a vastly different America.
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You're going to hear Trump utter one word a lot next year: "socialist." That should do the trick.
 
tres borrachos said:
Trump isn't fit to wipe the feet of Carter or Bush.
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I agree with you but being a one term persident is a sort of rejection of your first term. The people didn't want you to continue as their president. If Trump loses in 2020 it will be a rejection of his presidency. Of course, Trump will be remembered for less favorably than any other one-term president.
 
Skeptic Bob said:
When it is all said and done I don't think he will make much of a mark on the history books. Everybody likes talking about his insane tweets and behavior now but 30 years from now nobody is going to care about such irrelevant things. If he wants to be remembered for policies or anything substantive he better get to work because as of now his legacy is a nothing burger.
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I don't waist time exchanging posts with Cult members who refuse to admit the empty headed, unhinged Nutjob isn't racist, divisive, running a family cabal or has contempt for our Democratic allies and an affinity with murdering despots. I respond to opinions from posters I know live in reality. I agree with you more often than not, but you're way off base here.

Anyone who has taken an American history class in high school, knows how corrupt the Grant administration was. Don makes him look like an amateur right now, how will he be looked at after all the investigations are concluded? His stupid quotes, "I have a big brain", might not be remembered, but all his well documented hate filled Tweets that are becoming more desperate every day, will be. If president Grant is remembered, so will Don.

As I pointed out months ago, the mainstream press is now reporting on his recent threats. He's warned us not to anger all his "strong" friends, the police, firemen, gun owners and the military. Implying that if America isn't loyal enough, he'll incite them to start an insurrection. You'll be hearing more about this in the coming months. Add in his Russian connections and all his close associates being tried or pleading guilty and his place in infamy will be ensured.

The responsibility of holding the most powerful position in the world quickly ages presidents and gives them grey hair. Except Don. Historians have documented how the pressures of the office has a sobering effect on every president. It matures them as they grow 'into the office'. Except Don. Given that and after watching him over the last two years, can't we acknowledge that lacking deal making skills, he'll never promote or pass any policies, let alone one that'll improve our country?

It's true that he won't be remembered for his policies, but his term and it's effect on America will be documented and passionately debated for as long as America exists. Nothing burgers are quickly forgotten, sh_t burgers go down in history...

As Jon Chait points out, "...The frightening surreality of what has happened to the United States has only begun to sink in.”
 
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