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Where is the Democratic Party Really At?

Cardinal said:
If they're smart, they'll understand that those things are quite literally the same. If they vote for "ideological purity" like they did in 2016 then they'll end up having neither.

But again, it's more useful to learn from the success of 2018 than rehashing 2016 for the eight-trillionth time.
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What would you say to Biden-Harris, with Biden swearing to one term?

(my gut feeling says you'd prefer a progressive at the top)
 
pilot16 said:
But they took back the House because centrist and right leaning people (mostly female)didnt like who the GOP ran. However if they run newer people next time they might reconsider. They certainly wont vote for someone too far left which is why the progressives only won in predominantly blue areas. Purple areas swung hard for Blue dogs and moderates.
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That's a glass-half-empty perspective. A glass-half-full perspective is that they liked the Democratic candidate and what they were running on better.
 
Chomsky said:
Amy klobucher immediately comes to mind. Biden is relatively mainstream as Dems go, and quite a bit right of the progressive wing. Rather than a young Beto bringing in new blood, I was hoping a young Connor Lamb might come along.
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Klobuchar and Biden are probably the most moderate so far.
 
TrueScotsman said:
If anything the last election was a repudiation of the progressive wing of the party, which made me increasingly skeptical that Sanders or anyone else could pull it off. Especially if for some reason Trump is not in the equation. Kasich versus Sanders would I think be an easy victory for Kasich.
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Absolutely. I can attest to that as several of my GOP friends voted for democrats for the first time in their lives. Yet they still havent written Trump off for 2020. They like a few dems but are fearful of Sanders or Warren. They also would vote for Howard Schultz in a heartbeat if he ran as an indie.
 
Chomsky said:
What would you say to Biden-Harris, with Biden swearing to one term?

(my gut feeling says you'd prefer a progressive at the top)
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I'd say that's cool, but don't put too much meaning into that since, and I must re-emphasize, I will vote for quite literally any human being that wins the Democratic Primary. Tulsi Gabbard is my least favorite candidate, but if she won the Primary I'd canvas neighborhoods for her with zero reservation.
 
Chomsky said:
What would you say to Biden-Harris, with Biden swearing to one term?

(my gut feeling says you'd prefer a progressive at the top)
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That makes Biden a lame duck. Not a great idea.
 
pilot16 said:
I agree but I see the democratic party at a crossroads. We are coming near the end of the baby boomer generation and the millennials are exploding onto the scene. So the Ds need to decide, do they want to become a left progressive party and appeal to that new base? Or try to bring over center right and independents and continue to be more of a Third Way party? Its a risk either way really. But one thing we do know is appealing to right leaning voters isnt a guaranteed, as soon as a decent GOP candidate comes around they swing back. Trump will be gone eventually and the Ds need to figure out how to react to a new generation.
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The bolded is a good point.

But we're looking at the possibility of 6 more years of Trump, plus he'll be lame duck! I find that untenable. If Trump doesn't get locked-out in 2020 when he's on good behaviour to win the election, we'll find these past 2 years will pale in comparison to his last 4.
 
Cardinal said:
That's a glass-half-empty perspective. A glass-half-full perspective is that they liked the Democratic candidate and what they were running on better.
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Perhaps a little cynicism could do the Democrats some good, the progressive idealists haven't been winning in their elections like they should.
 
TrueScotsman said:
Perhaps a little cynicism could do the Democrats some good, the progressive idealists haven't been winning in their elections like they should.
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We didn't win 2018 on cynicism. We won it on energy and sincerity.
 
pilot16 said:
The problem is the youth. They are naive (not in a negative way but an ideological one) and its hard for them to see differently due to their inexperience. Many millennials I know were super excited by Bernie in 2016 but stayed home because they saw Hillary as too far in the center. They were ideologically pure so to speak. I also saw it with Ralph Nader. Today I think there still could be some especially the environmentalists who see global warming as their number one concern. Most older people in the middle of the country see the economy and healthcare as their top concerns. Climate change doesnt even hit the top 10. That can effect their voting.
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I fully agree with your assessment of the progressive wing. I too was a Bernie supporter. I just hope that my fellow progressive Dems can see it through to see the larger cause of stopping Trump, if a moderate wins the nomination. I was able to, in 2016.
 
pilot16 said:
Absolutely. I can attest to that as several of my GOP friends voted for democrats for the first time in their lives. Yet they still havent written Trump off for 2020. They like a few dems but are fearful of Sanders or Warren. They also would vote for Howard Schultz in a heartbeat if he ran as an indie.
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Yes, look at the polling, in the Schultz election scenarios. He steals from the progressive candidates, but not from Biden or other moderates. People I think are not ready for the progressive wing, especially with Social Security in doubt, there will be a generational fracturing.
 
Chomsky said:
I fully agree with your assessment of the progressive wing. I too was a Bernie supporter. I just hope that my fellow progressive Dems can see it through to see the larger cause of stopping Trump, if a moderate wins the nomination. I was able to, in 2016.
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I changed my mind to vote for Hillary Clinton at the last minute, because I was so angry about the Wikileaks information. I hated Trump more though. I wonder how many stayed home or voted for Trump though.
 
Cardinal said:
We didn't win 2018 on cynicism. We won it on energy and sincerity.
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Many of the progressives had plenty of energy and support from Bernie, and it did them no good, often getting crushed by a more moderate opponent or Republican opponent. 2018 was won so handily because Democrats ran on a unifying platform that brought in many people of all political views.
 
Chomsky said:
Amy klobucher immediately comes to mind. Biden is relatively mainstream as Dems go, and quite a bit right of the progressive wing. Rather than a young Beto bringing in new blood, I was hoping a young Connor Lamb might come along.
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I haven't looked at Klobucher much. Biden lost a little of my respect for his apology for calling Spence a "decent guy". When he gets in and starts politicking for votes it will be interesting.
 
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With the cancer of the Democrat being Bernie Sanders, it is very clear that a general shift to the left is unclear.
 
Cardinal said:
We didn't win 2018 on cynicism. We won it on energy and sincerity.
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No, you didn't. You won by energizing the Dem base in blue areas that Republicans had won from you, and you did it with pure anti-Trump spite. And that's even the way you described it at the time.

You're already making up a myth over something that was only 4 months ago.
 
pilot16 said:
That makes Biden a lame duck. Not a great idea.
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Why is that bad? Lame ducks are usually good for their side, no?

And to be pragmatic, there no guarantee such a campaign promise would have to be met (though I'm a bit wary of the effects of reneging).
 
Bullseye said:
I haven't looked at Klobucher much. Biden lost a little of my respect for his apology for calling Spence a "decent guy". When he gets in and starts politicking for votes it will be interesting.
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She's the most Pragmatist candidate running.
 
Chomsky said:
The bolded is a good point.

But we're looking at the possibility of 6 more years of Trump, plus he'll be lame duck! I find that untenable. If Trump doesn't get locked-out in 2020 when he's on good behaviour to win the election, we'll find these past 2 years will pale in comparison to his last 4.
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John Kerry learned what it was like to try to court those soccer moms in 2004, they said "no we will vote for GW again." I also think dems need a game plan. They cant continue to put up centrist candidates with the millennials coming up. They love AOC, Tlaib and others that are super progressive. They are meh on centrists. But beyond 2020, then what? If there is just a "fixing" of the ACA and no Green New Deal they will be up in arms. We also have to consider the oldest millennials will be almost 40 by 2020 so they will be moving up into the ranks of reliable voters. Its unwise to turn backs on them and keep the status quo. Plus every young person knows SS runs out by 2035 or so. They see boomers as irresponsible.
 
Chomsky said:
Why is that bad? Lame ducks are usually good for their side, no?

And to be pragmatic, there no guarantee such a campaign promise would have to be met (though I'm a bit wary of the effects of reneging).
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Getting no major policies passed is a recipe for losing the next election. And we have urgent issues that do need action, with 8 years of doing nothing, I fear for what kind of political energies that could unleash on society.
 
TrueScotsman said:
Many of the progressives had plenty of energy and support from Bernie, and it did them no good, often getting crushed by a more moderate opponent or Republican opponent. 2018 was won so handily because Democrats ran on a unifying platform that brought in many people of all political views.
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They won on not mentioning Trump but focused on healthcare. They need to focus on policies not Trump, which is why Nancy Pelosi said no impeachment for now.
 
Cardinal said:
To my knowledge, there are no Democrats you can vote for who happen to hold exclusively Republican positions. It would appear that voting for a Republican is your sole alternative.
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I don't judge by "republican positions" I judge by "bullseye positions", e.g. positions on the issues I prioritize highest. So much for appearances.
 
Bullseye said:
Are there any non-progressive/socialist Dems running?
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That question no longer has meaning. Socialism and progressivism definitions have been hijacked by the right wing media as a political scare tactic. Now they are just blind labels to facilitate bias confirmation with right wing voters.
 
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