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$840 Billion Medicare Cut

Both positions are opposed by Obamanites who despise patriotic Americans they accuse of clinging to God and guns.


There is no such thing as God, hence the need for guns...
 
How are they raiding the treasury when they are PAYING 40% of all income tax? Nearly a trillion dollars.

When they have 99% of the wealth 40% is one hell of a discount.

What did they have a coupon???
 
And yet history proves you wrong.

Bush's $600 tax refund was a one time jump start, food stamps are a program that works for all levels of the economy...

I am not opposed to food stamps. I am opposed to the notion that spending more government money will improve the health of an economy already so badly in debt that it will likely never be able to pay its way back out.
 
Yep..

but here is the thing..you liberals make the same lie.

Medicare is in trouble financially.. it can be fixed.. but it has serious issues.

And yet you liberals 1. Claim we can add millions of people onto the system who will take out of medicare but have not had years of paying in.. and there will be no ramifications to that.
2. Claim that you will get reductions of the cost from this single payer..but there will be no reaction from providers when they take a massive pay cut.

So the way to fix Medicares troubles is to cut money from it? Is that what Trump meant when he promised over and over that he would not cut Medicare?
 
So the way to fix Medicares troubles is to cut money from it? Is that what Trump meant when he promised over and over that he would not cut Medicare?

i would say no...

but.. you are talking about doing the same thing. Trump is talking about "cutting money from Medicare"...by doing things like making patients get preauthorization for surgery etc..

Well that is EXACTLY what you liberals are talking about doing. You may not realize it when you crow about how successful other countries are at "keeping healthcare cost low"...but doing things like preauthorization is EXACTLY what those countries do to lower their costs.

Why do other countries have higher wait times for care? One of the reasons is preauthorization.

Thats whats sad... you are angry for what trump is doing.. because its trump. But he is doing exactly what you want.. he is LOWERING THE COST OF HEALTHCARE.

You liberals seem to think that there is some free lunch to be had here.. that lowering the cost of healthcare has no consequences..

Well there is no free lunch.

You need to think about this for a while..the whole liberal population does.
 
i would say no...

but.. you are talking about doing the same thing. Trump is talking about "cutting money from Medicare"...by doing things like making patients get preauthorization for surgery etc..

Well that is EXACTLY what you liberals are talking about doing. You may not realize it when you crow about how successful other countries are at "keeping healthcare cost low"...but doing things like preauthorization is EXACTLY what those countries do to lower their costs.

Why do other countries have higher wait times for care? One of the reasons is preauthorization.

Thats whats sad... you are angry for what trump is doing.. because its trump. But he is doing exactly what you want.. he is LOWERING THE COST OF HEALTHCARE.

You liberals seem to think that there is some free lunch to be had here.. that lowering the cost of healthcare has no consequences..

Well there is no free lunch.

You need to think about this for a while..the whole liberal population does.

Stop changing the subject. The problem with the Trump administration lying to push private Medicare Advantage programs which promise lower rates for enrollees but come with pre-approval terms that are often abused by insurers is yet another way Trump is duping citizens into giving away coverage. This has nothing to do with his budget proposal which cuts 800K and everthing to do with our need to get rid of for profit insurers that drain 20% of our premiums without paying a single provider.

Whether prior authorization serves as an appropriate tool for limiting use of unnecessary care or a worrisome barrier to medically necessary care is an important question for both lawmakers and beneficiaries. Recently, more than 100 Members of Congress sent a letter to the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS) Administrator, Seema Verma, expressing concern about Medicare Advantage plans’ use of prior authorization, and asked CMS to collect data on the scope of prior authorization practices to enable better oversight. The HHS Office of the Inspector General (OIG) recently found that Medicare Advantage plans deny care – inappropriately – at relatively high rates. To the extent that the OIG findings are more the norm than the exception, they raise concerns for enrollees and questions as to whether prior authorization rules contribute to the relatively high rates of disenrollment among sicker Medicare Advantage enrollees.

Prior Authorization in Medicare Advantage Plans: How Often Is It Used? | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation
 
I know, what scum. And a liar. Business as usual.

Colbert did a montage last night of The Donald during the campaign swearing he wouldnt touch Medicare.

His promises were so ridiculous. His most famous one being, "I'll build a wall and make Mexico pay for it."

I constantly wonder why in the hell people believed any of it. I am not surprised Mexico isn't paying for a wall. I am not surprised Trump is trying to cut Medicare.
 
Oh yeah... Cut Medicare. That's going to get the republicans a lot of votes.

Go for it.

They'll just make it go into effect in 2024. 2020 if its clear trump is gonna be a one termer.

Like the Bush "tax holiday".

Hand out sugary treats so they can bitch at the next dem who has to fill a lot of teeth.
 
This is the same baloney crying Schumer gave us 1 1/2 years ago. :lol:

Politifact couldn't bring themselves to call Schumer an outright whack, so they just called his BS half-true. (grin)

The numbers for the present budget have not been disclosed (leaked) yet, however, I believe Schiff's $840-billion-cut number is based on the same "calculation" that Schumer did 1 1/2 years ago:


"... The Medicare and Medicaid cuts Schumer cited come from relatively hard-to-find numbers released by the Senate Budget Committee, which wrote the proposal.

To determine the size of the cuts to Medicare and Medicaid, Schumer’s office compared the most recent "baseline" spending amounts produced by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, and the amounts proposed by the Senate budget document.

For Medicare, Schumer’s office calculated that projected spending on the program would be in excess of $8.5 trillion over the next 10 years, if no changes are made from the status quo. The GOP budget, by contrast, projects Medicare spending over the same period to be $8.1 trillion.

The difference between the estimate and the GOP budget plan: almost $473 billion, or 5.5 percent of the CBO baseline.

... the Senate Budget Committee ... argued that this is not a "cut" because Medicare spending will still rise over the next 10 years -- by about 82 percent over 10 years, instead of 99 percent growth over 10 years under the status quo.

...The committee said this slowdown is justified because CBO says that Medicare’s Hospital Insurance Trust Fund -- which covers beneficiaries’ stays at hospitals and other facilities -- will run out by 2025. Making smaller cuts all along would prolong the life of the trust fund and prevent bigger cuts later on. ..."


Senate_budget_chart.jpg


Are Republicans paying for tax cuts with reductions in Medicare, Medicaid? | PolitiFact


Same BS, different messenger.

Of course when wages remain flat while costs go up and up its only a matter of time before payroll based programs fail.

Most of these programs were started before wages were decoupled from productivity and we returned to being disposable commodities like the rest of the worlds lower classes.
 
Stop changing the subject. The problem with the Trump administration lying to push private Medicare Advantage programs which promise lower rates for enrollees but come with pre-approval terms that are often abused by insurers is yet another way Trump is duping citizens into giving away coverage. This has nothing to do with his budget proposal which cuts 800K and everthing to do with our need to get rid of for profit insurers that drain 20% of our premiums without paying a single provider.



Prior Authorization in Medicare Advantage Plans: How Often Is It Used? | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

Nope.. not changing the subject.

He is "cutting medicare"...but creating hoops for people to jump through to get covered. In the hopes of decreasing utilization. Thats the "cut"that he is making.

Which is EXACTLY what you liberals are calling for. Thats in part HOW socialized medicine countries get their savings. By decreasing utilization through things like preauthorization.

Trump is decreasing the cost of healthcare. He is doing exactly what you liberals are calling for. You especially on this board.

YOU are the one that changed the subject. You are the one that just started talking about decreasing the cost of INSURANCE.

But thats not what you liberals talk about... they talk about reducing the cost of HEALTHCARE.

And that is what trump is doing.. reducing the cost of healthcare. The cost of healthcare in america..is NOT the cost of insurance premiums.. its the cost of healthcare.

So when you are comparing cost of healthcare US.. to cost of healthcare say UK... you are not talking premiums in either case.

So.. when you talk about reducing healthcare.. you are talking about doing things exactly like trump is doing.

But
 
Nope.. not changing the subject.

He is "cutting medicare"...but creating hoops for people to jump through to get covered. In the hopes of decreasing utilization. Thats the "cut"that he is making.

Which is EXACTLY what you liberals are calling for. Thats in part HOW socialized medicine countries get their savings. By decreasing utilization through things like preauthorization.

Trump is decreasing the cost of healthcare. He is doing exactly what you liberals are calling for. You especially on this board.

YOU are the one that changed the subject. You are the one that just started talking about decreasing the cost of INSURANCE.

But thats not what you liberals talk about... they talk about reducing the cost of HEALTHCARE.

And that is what trump is doing.. reducing the cost of healthcare. The cost of healthcare in america..is NOT the cost of insurance premiums.. its the cost of healthcare.

So when you are comparing cost of healthcare US.. to cost of healthcare say UK... you are not talking premiums in either case.

So.. when you talk about reducing healthcare.. you are talking about doing things exactly like trump is doing.

But

LOL That shows how little you know. Medicare advantage are PRIVATE insurers plans to take the Govts. money and increase their profits by denying coverage. That is how private for profit insurance works. Trump merely had his foxes in the Medicare henhouse change Medicare requirements to benefit private insurers and screw those covered by them. It does not save the Govt. money, it just increases PROFITS companies make off of sick people. Only fools think that is a good way to run healthcare. Before the AHC act guaranteed coverage private insurers spent millions employing people who's only job was to find ways to deny coverage to their customers.

Medicare Advantage Plans, sometimes called “Part C” or “MA Plans,” are offered by private companies
approved by Medicare.
Medicare pays these companies to cover your Medicare
benefits

https://www.medicare.gov/pubs/pdf/11474.pdf
 
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Every socialist thinks he has a better idea how to manipulate the business world through government involvement and mandates. Government involvement and mandates cause the problems that free markets must try to overcome to keep moving.

You're so cute with your belief that a "free market" ever existed or can.

A "free market" will result in monopolistic control of industries eventually sure as ****. All it takes is a little bad luck for a competitor and down they go. Rinse and repeat until you are "The One". Which is really what's droning the tycoons. Making sure no one is higher on the ladder than they are. Basic biology.
 
Cool. Let's see what Schiffty can do that won't result in "Trillion dollar deficits for the next four years".

btw, raising taxes is a dead deal, if that's what he was thinking of.

Look at the bright side. Those medicaid cuts will probably mostly hit his voters thanks to the republican governors who refused medicaid expansion when they had the opportunity. Beside the fact we need the money from somewhere to pay for his recent tax cuts for corporate america and the super wealthy. Push the money from the bottom up, this is what you're actually voting for if you vote republican. One day you might even wake up and realize this fact if y'all weren't so busy hating liberals.
 
Look at the bright side. Those medicaid cuts will probably mostly hit his voters thanks to the republican governors who refused medicaid expansion when they had the opportunity. Beside the fact we need the money from somewhere to pay for his recent tax cuts for corporate america and the super wealthy. Push the money from the bottom up, this is what you're actually voting for if you vote republican. One day you might even wake up and realize this fact if y'all weren't so busy hating liberals.

Tell me...do you know the difference between Medicaid and Medicare?

(hint: look at the thread title)
 
You're so cute with your belief that a "free market" ever existed or can.

A "free market" will result in monopolistic control of industries eventually sure as ****. All it takes is a little bad luck for a competitor and down they go. Rinse and repeat until you are "The One". Which is really what's droning the tycoons. Making sure no one is higher on the ladder than they are. Basic biology.

That sounds rather simplistic and nonsensical, not something which would or should be taught in a reputable institution of higher learning.
 
When they have 99% of the wealth 40% is one hell of a discount.

What did they have a coupon???

They dont have 99% of the wealth. And we dont have a wealth tax. We have a income tax. The top 1% create 20% of the wealth, on which they pay 40% of income taxes.
 
That sounds rather simplistic and nonsensical, not something which would or should be taught in a reputable institution of higher learning.

Do any higher learning places claim that an absolute free market economy would actually work?
 
Oh yeah... Cut Medicare. That's going to get the republicans a lot of votes.

Go for it.

The Trump base will need to put 2 and 2 together, and make the connection between poor medical care and Trump cutting the medicare budget in part for the wall.

Somehow I doubt the majority can manage it, especially once Trump blames it all on the Dems. Look, it's already working.
 
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They dont have 99% of the wealth. And we dont have a wealth tax. We have a income tax. The top 1% create 20% of the wealth, on which they pay 40% of income taxes.

Do you have any reputable links supporting those numbers?
 
Do any higher learning places claim that an absolute free market economy would actually work?

When we speak of the free market we are referring to reasonable understandings of that term, not extreme twists.
 
LOL That shows how little you know. Medicare advantage are PRIVATE insurers plans to take the Govts. money and increase their profits by denying coverage. That is how private for profit insurance works. , it just increases PROFITS companies make off of sick people. Only fools think that is a good way to run healthcare.


https://www.medicare.gov/pubs/pdf/11474.pdf


BWWAAAHHH.... okay...first.. from the OP.. we are talking an ACTUAL DECREASE in medicare spending for the government. So YES..it does save money for the governemnt. And also it appears that TRump is proposing increasing pre authorization in standard medicare.. not medicare advantage plans.

Also, the article that talked about medicare advantage plans illustrated the problems with preauthorization.. that it often become overutilized and or delayed needed treatment.

hat is how private for profit insurance works. Trump merely had his foxes in the Medicare henhouse change Medicare requirements to benefit private insurers and screw those covered by them. It does not save the Govt. money, it just increases PROFITS companies make off of sick people. Only fools think that is a good way to run healthcare.
Bwaahh. Okay... here is the real irony. YOU are the fool. Think about it.. YOU and your liberal buddies keep harping about "we need to reduce the cost of healthcare"..

Well guess what... Trump JUST DID. HE DID WHAT YOU WANT. He lowered the cost of healthcare. Now you are realizing what I and Greenbeard have been trying to tell you for years. ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE... THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH.

So.. trump gets preauthorization... JUST LIKE COUNTRIES WITH GOVERNMENT SINGLE PAYER DO. ITS ONE WAY THEY REDUCE THEIR COSTS!.

And what do you realize. wait for it...

it just increases PROFITS companies make off of sick people. Only fools think that is a good way to run healthcare.

What...oh wait.. you just realized that most folks don't PAY for healthcare.. insurance does. Whether that insurance is private OR government run.
So what happens when we have government single payer... cuz you want that...and the government lowers the cost of healthcare with preauthorization.. (which other countries do).

So.. poor guy who needs surgery gets delayed. or doesn't get his surgery...
The government saves money. So..what does the government do with that money? Well.. they may give a tax cut to the rich. Especially since the rich are subsidizing the taxes that pay for government insurance.
Maybe they use it to build a "WALL".. etc.

And what about all those companies now don't have to pay for healthcare insurance? You think they are just going to go to the employees and say.. "hey.. we made a lot more profit not paying for your healthcare insurance.. so here..we are giving out bonuses".. OR do you think its just going to mean more profit to the people running those companies and their shareholders? Hmmmmm…

What record have current companies have had about passing on their increased profits to their employees.. particularly at the bottom? Companies have been making record profits for decades.. what have wages done relative to inflation? Think about that for a minute.

So.. lets think about what happens under your proposal. The vast majority of americans get screwed..they have worse insurance than they have now..with preauthorization, with longer wait times, and decreased access. Those nurses, x ray techs, get paid less, or lose their jobs with that decrease in healthcare cost.. so local communities lose out in wages and in wage pressure. Lose jobs (healthcare right now is a leading creator of new jobs in the country) Especially when you consider the number of healthcare facilities that are NON PROFIT.
And the wealthy get... wealthier.

the only folks helped are that 10%of americans that didn't have health insurance before.

Now.. I am sure you are going to spout your fantasy that
1. The government will do away with insurance companies.. despite the fact that handling government insurance represents about 60% of private insurance company revenue. Despite the fact that most single payer countries also have private insurance companies to cover what the government doesn't cover.

2. That the companies that benefit from not having to pay for health insurance are going to magnanimously decide NOT to take that extra profit..but pass it out to the fellows working the floors in the company.

3. that decreasing healthcare spending by 4-6%of GDP (more than the great recession). is not going to have negative effects on the economy.
 
The Trump base will need to put 2 and 2 together, and make the connection between poor medical care and Trump cutting the medicare budget in part for the wall.

Somehow I doubt the majority can manage it, especially once Trump blames it all on the Dems. Look, it's already working.

Even if they DO put 2 plus 2 together, their answer would be 5 so what's the point? Alt-truth. Alt-math. Alt-world. Alt-reality. Gotta love 'em. :roll:
 
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