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Thread: $840 Billion Medicare Cut

  1. #151
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    Re: $840 Billion Medicare Cut

    Trump - I will not implement cuts to Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.

    Trump - Lie, lie, and lie.


    "While this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him." Mueller Report

  2. #152
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    Re: $840 Billion Medicare Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by marke View Post
    If government control should be the ultimate good behind the best economies then why have so many economies being run by the government failed so miserably in history?
    They're all run by a government of some sort, that's my point. They DEMAND regulation. Markets like we have today could never exist without a rational authority. A free market is impossible and, thus, is a stick with a carrot for fools.

    Governments fail for various reasons. That in no way diminishes human need or the many good things that have been done in the name of "socialism", as in its modern, humanist context.

    I'm afraid you've been defending a fantasy against those you'd otherwise agree with. I'm much more concerned about people, rather than markets, being free.

  3. #153
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    Re: $840 Billion Medicare Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by D_NATURED View Post
    They're all run by a government of some sort, that's my point. They DEMAND regulation. Markets like we have today could never exist without a rational authority. A free market is impossible and, thus, is a stick with a carrot for fools.

    Governments fail for various reasons. That in no way diminishes human need or the many good things that have been done in the name of "socialism", as in its modern, humanist context.

    I'm afraid you've been defending a fantasy against those you'd otherwise agree with. I'm much more concerned about people, rather than markets, being free.
    Even if modern Americans cannot see the dangers of communism and socialism, more than 100 million people who died in the last 100 years under brutal communist/socialist rule did experience the pain brought by the rise of wicked ruthless godless rulers over societies.

  4. #154
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    Re: $840 Billion Medicare Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by marke View Post
    Even if modern Americans cannot see the dangers of communism and socialism, more than 100 million people who died in the last 100 years under brutal communist/socialist rule did experience the pain brought by the rise of wicked ruthless godless rulers over societies.
    That's a bull**** cop out. Socialism and communism are two different things. Besides, socialism didn't kill those people, DICTATORS did. Furthermore, being godless does not make you more violent. In fact, it's usually the opposite. Consider the very god-obsessed middle east, where murder, rape, oppression and war are daily occurrences, committed by the faithful. Consider the USA, where religion and the military have formed a long-standing unholy union. Consider too, how American christianity existed relatively conflict free in an environment of slavery, for hundreds of years.

    People are capable of being really ****ty to each other and god belief has never stopped that. If anything, it's defined who the acceptable victims are. So, save that ignorant blather for someone who CAN'T read a history book.

    Sure, many have died in the defense of political religions. That should be our cue to stop treating politics like something in which blind faith is necessary. I don't think classic socialism is the answer to America's problems but I DO think there are aspects of it that make sense that are rejected on religious grounds by right wing morons. When you blame a political system for what humans do, you step into a dumb trap. The conservatives who reject single payer healthcare because they call it "socialism" DESERVE to die, bankrupted by private healthcare costs. That's poetic justice. The tragedy is how many others they'll take with them.

  5. #155
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    Re: $840 Billion Medicare Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by D_NATURED View Post
    That's a bull**** cop out. Socialism and communism are two different things. Besides, socialism didn't kill those people, DICTATORS did. Furthermore, being godless does not make you more violent. In fact, it's usually the opposite. Consider the very god-obsessed middle east, where murder, rape, oppression and war are daily occurrences, committed by the faithful. Consider the USA, where religion and the military have formed a long-standing unholy union. Consider too, how American christianity existed relatively conflict free in an environment of slavery, for hundreds of years.

    People are capable of being really ****ty to each other and god belief has never stopped that. If anything, it's defined who the acceptable victims are. So, save that ignorant blather for someone who CAN'T read a history book.

    Sure, many have died in the defense of political religions. That should be our cue to stop treating politics like something in which blind faith is necessary. I don't think classic socialism is the answer to America's problems but I DO think there are aspects of it that make sense that are rejected on religious grounds by right wing morons. When you blame a political system for what humans do, you step into a dumb trap. The conservatives who reject single payer healthcare because they call it "socialism" DESERVE to die, bankrupted by private healthcare costs. That's poetic justice. The tragedy is how many others they'll take with them.
    What you misunderstand as "blind faith" in God is typical of what leftists believe who have "blind faith" in the godless democrat party.

  6. #156
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    Re: $840 Billion Medicare Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by marke View Post
    What you misunderstand as "blind faith" in God is typical of what leftists believe who have "blind faith" in the godless democrat party.
    It's called the "Democratic" party, not the ignorant version you use. And, the leaders of the Democratic party line up, like many other politicians, to patronize stupid sky worshipers who demand to have their fantasies legitimized by power and enshrined in common law. However, I'll agree that the political left, not the Democratic party, is the only safe place for those who dare to live free of the sort of dogma that the GOP uses as a bludgeon against democracy and human rights.

    It seems like you are trying very hard to parrot the most ignorant conservative propaganda your atrophied mind can summon. The anti-democratic plutocrats that represent the conservative power machine would be thrilled to know their imaginary gods are still an effective tool for dividing people and closing small, ugly minds.

    You are everything they hoped you'd be, narrow, bigoted and proudly inflexible to new information.

  7. #157
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    Re: $840 Billion Medicare Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    i would say no...

    but.. you are talking about doing the same thing. Trump is talking about "cutting money from Medicare"...by doing things like making patients get preauthorization for surgery etc..

    Well that is EXACTLY what you liberals are talking about doing. You may not realize it when you crow about how successful other countries are at "keeping healthcare cost low"...but doing things like preauthorization is EXACTLY what those countries do to lower their costs.

    Why do other countries have higher wait times for care? One of the reasons is preauthorization.

    Thats whats sad... you are angry for what trump is doing.. because its trump. But he is doing exactly what you want.. he is LOWERING THE COST OF HEALTHCARE.

    You liberals seem to think that there is some free lunch to be had here.. that lowering the cost of healthcare has no consequences..

    Well there is no free lunch.

    You need to think about this for a while..the whole liberal population does.
    Explain to me how forcing preauthorization for ridiculously priced procedures does anything to lower the cost of healthcare....all you did spend less on healthcare...the price is still the exact same as it was before you denied the claim to begin with.

  8. #158
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    Re: $840 Billion Medicare Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by bullseyelqcs View Post
    Explain to me how forcing preauthorization for ridiculously priced procedures does anything to lower the cost of healthcare....all you did spend less on healthcare...the price is still the exact same as it was before you denied the claim to begin with.
    Cost from the point of view of the buyer is the price multiplied by how much of it you buy. Medicare is already a price setter so it pays the prices that the government chooses to set. Prior auth is about controlling utilization, scrutinizing whether a service is necessary and appropriate.

  9. #159
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    Re: $840 Billion Medicare Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    Cost from the point of view of the buyer is the price multiplied by how much of it you buy. Medicare is already a price setter so it pays the prices that the government chooses to set. Prior auth is about controlling utilization, scrutinizing whether a service is necessary and appropriate.
    All of that is true....but it happens no matter which system is being employed.

    My question is why has it always been okay for a for profit insurer to do that, but not the government through single payer?

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    Re: $840 Billion Medicare Cut

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    seems safe to speculate that if the house hadn't flipped, these programs would have been significantly more at risk.
    You might agree that Medicare is less than perfectly administered. Nor is the law regarding how Medicare pays for medicines something that could not be changed to the better. I think you also agree that there is much Medicare fraud by providers.

    Saying this it always drives me nuts when I see a reflective response such as yours. It is possible to IMPROVE and program while REDUCING costs. A large part of my career was doing just that for companies that have already strove to be as efficient as possible. Almost always found there are areas for improvement while helping all stakeholders,including employees.

    I liked to say if we did a good job in managing our division, 200 families would have a good,stable life. Same can be true for a government program.

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