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[W:308] AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

RooseveltTruman said:
Until she calls for the businesses of the United States to be owned by either the state or worker collectives, I wouldn't call her a socialist. Not saying her policies are right or wrong, but I don't think it's appropriate to call her a socialist yet, even if she might (inaccurately?) describe herself as one.
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what does this suggest to you???????????????????????

Capitalism has not always existed in the world and will not always exist in the world. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Read more at: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Quotes - BrainyQuote
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

uptower said:
Socialism didn't really kill 120 million. I tend to take a more circumspect view of history rather than fall back on sloganeering.
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More like you prefer to REWRITE HISTORY to suit your preferred narrative.


Please tell us all which of the former USSR (60-100 million dead), Red China (60-80 million dead), Cambodia (7 million dead), post-war Vietnam (2 million in the first two years of "peacetime', more than died on BOTH SIDES in the entire 13 years of direct US military involvement there) , Laos, Cuba DID NO HAVE TOTAL GOVERNMENT CONTROL of the MEANS OD PRODUCTION and DISTRIBUTION = "SOCIALISM" ?
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

James972 said:
do you have one positive world from her about capitalism???? What does that teach you??
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Again you do understand proving a negative fallacy right? For instance you have demonstrated no following of god as a person of faith would do just the hypocrisy.
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

RooseveltTruman said:
Until she calls for the businesses of the United States to be owned by either the state or worker collectives, I wouldn't call her a socialist..
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green New Deal is not communist? She does not want to own, just assume total control. Do you understand? Modern communists have learned they are too stupid to manage a business. Do you understand now?
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

Praxas said:
Again you do understand proving a negative fallacy right? For instance you have demonstrated no following of god as a person of faith would do just the hypocrisy.
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for 5th time: do you have one positive world from her about capitalism???? What does that teach you??
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

James972 said:
what does this suggest to you???????????????????????

Capitalism has not always existed in the world and will not always exist in the world. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Read more at: Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Quotes - BrainyQuote
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I suspect that she thinks "capitalism" means "unregulated casino capitalism" and that "socialism" means "the government does stuff." The definition of socialism of when the businesses in a country are owned by the government or worker collectives. Has she called for that yet? Honest question, not a rhetorical one.
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

Grokmaster said:
Please tell us all which of the former USSR (60-100 million dead), Red China (60-80 million dead), Cambodia (7 million dead), post-war Vietnam (2 million in the first two years of "peacetime', more than died on BOTH SIDES in the entire 13 years of direct US military involvement there) , Laos, Cuba DID NO HAVE TOTAL GOVERNMENT CONTROL of the MEANS OD PRODUCTION and DISTRIBUTION = "SOCIALISM" ?
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could you try again in better english??
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

RooseveltTruman said:
I suspect that she thinks "capitalism" means "unregulated casino capitalism"
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we obviously don't care what you suspect?????.
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

James972 said:
could you try again in better english??
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Nice dance move to desperately avoid addressing the facts.

DP left SOP....

dancing away.jpg
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

James972 said:
for 5th time: do you have one positive world from her about capitalism???? What does that teach you??
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Proving a negative fallacy for the fifth time from you. Got anything else godless man?
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

James972 said:
green New Deal is not communist? She does not want to own, just assume total control. Do you understand? Modern communists have learned they are too stupid to manage a business. Do you understand now?
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I admit that I'm not an expert on the Green New Deal, but is it really communist? Which part of it states that its goal is a stateless workers' paradise achieved through totalitarian government?
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

James972 said:
do you have one positive world from her about capitalism???? What does that teach you??
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So that's the definition of a socialist? Someone who doesn't say nice things about capitalism?
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

James972 said:
we obviously don't care what you suspect?????.
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The reason I said what I did is because many people, possibly AOC included, don't know basic definitions of terms like capitalism, social democracy, socialism, etc. We don't really know yet if she's a true socialist or a social democrat.
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

The term has been rendered completely and utterly useless. Everything is socialism, and nothing is.

I mean, we talk about socialism, are we talking about working class seizing the means of production, are we talking about autcratic rule over every minute aspect of every industry and the economy as a whole, or are we talking about mixed-economy systems where many industries are privite while others are within the domain of the public?

Because if we're talking about the latter, then we are talking about exactly what we've already been for longer than any of our lifetimes. We already have a minimum-wage. Social democrats want to increase it to reflect the rise in inflation and/or the rise in productivity. We already tax the citizenry. Social democrats want to close tax loopholes and raise top marginal brackets to reflect what we were doing before the 1980's. We already have programs like medicaid, medicare, and social security--the latter of which isn't considered a 'welfare' program, but boy did the right-wingers ever lose their collective **** over dah socialusm. What social demorats want to do is to expand medicare so that it universally covers the citzenry, just like every other developed nation.

We are falling behind the rest of the world, and we will continue to stagnate until we pull our heads out of the sand and stop freaking out over the kinds of policies that have really been with us throughout the entire cold war, and throughout our time as the world's most powerful country.
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

Gaius46 said:
So that's the definition of a socialist? Someone who doesn't say nice things about capitalism?
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and someone who has nice things to say about socialism and has proposed massive socialist legislation. Are you shy about socialism given that it killed 120 million already?
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

RooseveltTruman said:
We don't really know yet if she's a true socialist or a social democrat.
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sure we do the green new deal is commie for sure. Did she propose freedom or govt to make that massive revolution happen???
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

uptower said:
Socialism didn't really kill 120 million. I tend to take a more circumspect view of history rather than fall back on sloganeering.
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You just don't understand. LOL!
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

DH Kirkwood said:
We already have a minimum-wage.
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that is absolutely trivial compared to the massive commie transformation the Green New Deal Represents. Do you understand?
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

DH Kirkwood said:
We are falling behind the rest of the world,
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how is best economy in world( most capitalist) , despite liberal interference, falling behind???
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

James972 said:
sure we do the green new deal is commie for sure. Did she propose freedom or govt to make that massive revolution happen???
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I'm pretty sure the Green New Deal isn't communistic. As I said earlier, I'm not an expert on it, but where does it call for businesses to be taken over the government or worker collectives?

Also, there are different kinds of freedoms and liberties (think "positive" and "negative" liberties/rights). How about the freedom/right to not die because you don't have health insurance? Sure, universal health care may curtail the "freedoms" of the turbo-rich somewhat (they may not be able to buy a twelfth solid-platinum yacht), but always remember that one man's freedom may be another man's slavery and vice versa (not saying freedom is always a zero-sum game, but it occasionally have characteristics of one).
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

RooseveltTruman said:
I'm pretty sure the Green New Deal isn't communistic..
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oh really???so how is that massive revolution going to happen in 10 years without absolute govt control??
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

James972 said:
if it's bad can someone say why??
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AOC is a democratic socialist, much like Bernie Sanders, which is a hybrid (subset?) of socialism. Essentially a democratic socialist only wants government (total?) control over the means of production for certain "essential" goods and services. Whether that is by people in those industries/occupations accepting government set prices or working for government assigned wages seems to vary as does whether the production facilities are actually government owned.

What is Democratic Socialism? - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)

Whether that is "bad" depends on how much you trust total (federal?) government control far beyond the enumerated powers granted to it by our constitution.
 
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Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

James972 said:
oh really???so how is that massive revolution going to happen in 10 years without absolute govt control??
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Of course she's advocating communistic control over energy, travel, building, farming, food supply. You know, pretty much everything.
 
Re: AOC is socialist. Is that bad?

James972 said:
oh really???so how is that massive revolution going to happen in 10 years without absolute govt control??
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Government regulation isn't government control. The government already regulates plenty, and almost nobody calls the current states of affairs in the United States communistic. At what point does regulation transition from capitalism to socialism to communism, in your opinion?
 
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