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The Two-Faces of Bernie

DaveFagan said:
Paranoia??? Yanukovich was declared by USA as dictator in Ukraine. Lots of death and instability organized by the USA followed. Assad in Syria was declared a dictator yby the USA and lots of death and instability followed. Gaddaffi in Libya was declared a dictator by the USA and lots of death and instability followed. Maduro in Venezuela is declared a dictator by the USA and ?????? Paranoia!/
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Yeah,. Paranoia.

The deaths and destruction in Ukraine is because of a corrupt leader fighting to maintain power and the Russians illegal annexation of Crimea and illegal entry into Donbass.

Assad is a dictator. One of the few not to fall in the Arab Spring.

Why do you like dictatorships?
 
RaleBulgarian said:
Wow, you’ve got it all figured out. All our government has to do is declare a nation’s leader a dictator and “lots of death and instability will follow”. Wish we’d known that way back in December ‘41.
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We've always known that. That is the problem. The CIA uses covert tools to cause the death and instability. Pretend you don't see behind the screen where the strings are pulled. Either blindness or ignorance is an acceptable excuse not to be aware of what's going on. It's S.O.P.
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Fledermaus said:
Yeah,. Paranoia.

The deaths and destruction in Ukraine is because of a corrupt leader fighting to maintain power and the Russians illegal annexation of Crimea and illegal entry into Donbass.

Assad is a dictator. One of the few not to fall in the Arab Spring.

Why do you like dictatorships?
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Deaths in Maidan caused by sniper team lead by Parubiy team shooting from the Ukrana Hotel. Deaths in Donetsk and Luhansk caused by attacks by Poroshenko's Ukrainians against separatists. Both events sponsored by USA /CIA covert activities and USA weapons and USA Mercenaries. No such thing as Arab Spring. These instabilities were intitiated and stoked by the USA/CIA.

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DaveFagan said:
Paranoia??? Yanukovich was declared by USA as dictator in Ukraine. Lots of death and instability organized by the USA followed. Assad in Syria was declared a dictator yby the USA and lots of death and instability followed. Gaddaffi in Libya was declared a dictator by the USA and lots of death and instability followed. Maduro in Venezuela is declared a dictator by the USA and ?????? Paranoia!/
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I suppose he's never heard the term "economic hit man".

 
AlbqOwl said:
How many people in Congress--probably not only Democrats or those who caucus with them but they most prominently stand out recently--were for something before it became politically expedient to be against it? President Obama was all for the traditional definition of marriage before it was politically expedient to be against it. He was all for government run, universal single payer health care and doing away with private insurance before it was politically expedient to modify that position. Most prominent Democrats in the House and Senate were all for a physical barrier on the border during the Bush 43 and Obama years and voted to fund that every time it came up. It is only now, that it is no longer in the talking points to support a fence or wall that they oppose it as cruel and immoral.

Not one of them even raised an eyebrow when Obama was accidentally caught on an open mic virtually whispering to Medvedev:

President Obama: "On all these issues, but particularly missile defense, this, this can be solved but it’s important for him to give me space."

President Medvedev: "Yeah, I understand. I understand your message about space. Space for you…"

President Obama: "This is my last election. After my election I have more flexibility."

President Medvedev: "I understand. I will transmit this information to Vladimir, and I stand with you."

There were parts of that conversation that were inaudible and there was much speculation as to what President Obama actually meant. But it is a pretty sure thing that the position he was indicating to Congress and the American people out of political expediency is not what he was indicating to Medvedev.
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I don't see the problem with Obama having that conversation.

Now Trump publicly siding with Putin against the entire American Intelligence community in Helsinki .... that is on a whole 'nother level of stupid and corrupt. And Trump lying during the campaign, saying he had absolutely no involvement with the Russians, when he was negotiating with the Russians to make a profit .... compromising himself with one of America's oldest advarsaries .... that is also on a whole 'nother level of corrupt and/or stupid.

You're trying to equate Obama's jay-walking to Trump's bank fraud.
 
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good luck with the continued smearing
 
DaveFagan said:
Deaths in Maidan caused by sniper team lead by Parubiy team shooting from the Ukrana Hotel. Deaths in Donetsk and Luhansk caused by attacks by Poroshenko's Ukrainians against separatists. Both events sponsored by USA /CIA covert activities and USA weapons and USA Mercenaries. No such thing as Arab Spring. These instabilities were intitiated and stoked by the USA/CIA.

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I would ask you for the evidence but we both know you are just spouting the party line mindlessly... Was it Sputnik, TASS, or RT that told you this whopper?

And another ignorant statement... "No Arab Spring"

Wow....

Except it did happen.
 
Fledermaus said:
I would ask you for the evidence but we both know you are just spouting the party line mindlessly... Was it Sputnik, TASS, or RT that told you this whopper?

And another ignorant statement... "No Arab Spring"

Wow....

Except it did happen.
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It only happened in your mind. The CIA got rid of Qaddaffi, The Moslem Brotherhood, and helped ISIS bigtime. You remember ISIS threatening Libya, but it was described by the CIA as Libyan citizens objecting to Qaddaffi. Gosh, such a simple mistake, but still in your mind. And in Egypt we now have a very cooperative dictator. You'd believe anything, or you are a complete and will spout anything Pere tells you.. Eh?

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DaveFagan said:
We've always known that. That is the problem. The CIA uses covert tools to cause the death and instability. Pretend you don't see behind the screen where the strings are pulled. Either blindness or ignorance is an acceptable excuse not to be aware of what's going on. It's S.O.P.
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The CIA, along with covert agencies from governments around the world, have been mucking around in each other’s business for a very long time. That does not mean that when there is “lots of death and instability” in another country that we had/have part in it. Venezuela has been in trouble for years now, and does not need any push from the U.S. (for what reason?) to hurry that along. Maduro is a thug who doesn’t care about his people. He let's them starve on “the Maduro diet” while he gets fatter and fatter. He has destroyed the economy, but do you see him suffering? Sometimes a thing is what it appears to be. What is happening in Venezuela now has been a long time coming.

Peddle your ridiculous conspiracy theories elsewhere.
 
DaveFagan said:
Maduro is NOT a dictator. Elected. Bernie means well, but is naive about Intelligence Agency control of USA foreign policy. He underestimates the NeoCon scumbags and their World Domination goals.
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NEOCON? I haven't heard that term in forever! Oldie but a goody. Putin and Castro were "elected" too.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
The CIA, along with covert agencies from governments around the world, have been mucking around in each other’s business for a very long time. That does not mean that when there is “lots of death and instability” in another country that we had/have part in it. Venezuela has been in trouble for years now, and does not need any push from the U.S. (for what reason?) to hurry that along. Maduro is a thug who doesn’t care about his people. He let's them starve on “the Maduro diet” while he gets fatter and fatter. He has destroyed the economy, but do you see him suffering? Sometimes a thing is what it appears to be. What is happening in Venezuela now has been a long time coming.

Peddle your ridiculous conspiracy theories elsewhere.
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I don't follow Dave down every Rabbit Hole, but his paranoia are quite warranted. I'm not well versed on Venezuela in particular, but the CIAs meddling in affairs of state for US interesets, even sometimes just the interests of American corporations is well known. Just because Maduro is a bad leader and basically another corrupt "benevolent" communist autocrat, does not remove US efforts to destabilize the situation for particular advantage. There's nearly always more going on than we know that comes out later.

For a paranoid guy though, Dave is often right about some of his paranoia where US meddling in world affairs is concerned. "Hawks" abound on both sides of the congressional aisle. The CIA is not an altruistic organization, far from it.
 
I am a Social Democrat and I do not support Senator Bernie Sanders. The problem with American Conservatives, they believe that one type of Socialism is equal to the other. Hitler had one type of Socialism and Stalin had other type. Russia lost over 20 million dead and in total, over 50 million died during World War II. Democratic Socialism is a problem, because no political party has embraced that political thought. Sanders is a New Deal Democrat, and the last New Deal Democrat that ran for president: lost 49 states in 1984. Social Democrats does best with a parliament, because, if you control 20% of the seats in parliament -- other parties did not get over 50% of the total -- so they ask other parties to conform with a ruling government.

The problem with Sanders, he was born in the wrong country and been in political power during the 1950's or 1960's. Today, Sanders could not get to be the national leader of a foreign country -- like Canada, United Kingdom, France, Germany, Spain, Japan and other smaller democratic countries.
 
markjs said:
I don't follow Dave down every Rabbit Hole, but his paranoia are quite warranted. I'm not well versed on Venezuela in particular, but the CIAs meddling in affairs of state for US interesets, even sometimes just the interests of American corporations is well known. Just because Maduro is a bad leader and basically another corrupt "benevolent" communist autocrat, does not remove US efforts to destabilize the situation for particular advantage. There's nearly always more going on than we know that comes out later.

For a paranoid guy though, Dave is often right about some of his paranoia where US meddling in world affairs is concerned. "Hawks" abound on both sides of the congressional aisle. The CIA is not an altruistic organization, far from it.
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I’m not naive or ignorant. That should have been apparent from my last post.

Dave might have fair instincts when it comes to sniffing out possible meddling by the U.S., but then again, anyone who follows world events regularly is just as capable of recognizing something “not right” about statements made by certain government officials (tone/language), publicized actions, etc..

Venezuela is a mess of its own government’s making. Maduro is personally responsible for the destruction of his country’s economy. This is widely reported/known. What is happening now was inevitable. I don’t know (how could I?) if the U.S. has had any involvement and frankly, I don’t see what we would have to gain by destabilizing or hurrying the process. Venezuela is not exactly important to the U.S.. Even their oil supply doesn’t give them leverage. They need us far more than we need them.

No, this is not some super secret CIA coupe. It is what it appears to be, a country in crisis brought on by its own leaders.
 
DaveFagan said:
It only happened in your mind. The CIA got rid of Qaddaffi, The Moslem Brotherhood, and helped ISIS bigtime. You remember ISIS threatening Libya, but it was described by the CIA as Libyan citizens objecting to Qaddaffi. Gosh, such a simple mistake, but still in your mind. And in Egypt we now have a very cooperative dictator. You'd believe anything, or you are a complete and will spout anything Pere tells you.. Eh?

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All the CIA paranoia in that post....

Who got rid of Gaddafi? The NTC. Not the CIA.

And of course the lie about the CIA supporting ISIS.

Another DaveFagan special. He can't tell one rebel group from another so he calls them all ISIS.

And the Egyptian Abdel Fattah el-Sisi was ELECTED....

Your ignorance is astounding.
 
JustHanging said:
I don't see the problem with Obama having that conversation.

Now Trump publicly siding with Putin against the entire American Intelligence community in Helsinki .... that is on a whole 'nother level of stupid and corrupt. And Trump lying during the campaign, saying he had absolutely no involvement with the Russians, when he was negotiating with the Russians to make a profit .... compromising himself with one of America's oldest advarsaries .... that is also on a whole 'nother level of corrupt and/or stupid.

You're trying to equate Obama's jay-walking to Trump's bank fraud.
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Only if you interpret it the way you WANT to interpret it instead of the way it actually was. And at least if President Trump has something to say he says it so you and I and everybody else can hear it or read it. President Obama gave a very strong impression that he was signaling the Russians a message that would not at all play well in Peoria, and therefore Peoria was not supposed to hear it.
 
Fledermaus said:
All the CIA paranoia in that post....

Who got rid of Gaddafi? The NTC. Not the CIA.

And of course the lie about the CIA supporting ISIS.

Another DaveFagan special. He can't tell one rebel group from another so he calls them all ISIS.

And the Egyptian Abdel Fattah el-Sisi was ELECTED....

Your ignorance is astounding.
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It's the real world bubby. Something you know nothing about. Check with Pete, new thought on the way.

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AlbqOwl said:
Only if you interpret it the way you WANT to interpret it instead of the way it actually was. And at least if President Trump has something to say he says it so you and I and everybody else can hear it or read it. President Obama gave a very strong impression that he was signaling the Russians a message that would not at all play well in Peoria, and therefore Peoria was not supposed to hear it.
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Umm...what? Trump meets privately with Putin all the time with out staff and refuses to be recorded. We have no idea what their discussions are.
 
Finch said:
Umm...what? Trump meets privately with Putin all the time with out staff and refuses to be recorded. We have no idea what their discussions are.
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Oh...does he now...how is he managing that "All the time"...?


Teleportation? God...he is SOOOOO TRICKY !!!!
 
Finch said:
Umm...what? Trump meets privately with Putin all the time with out staff and refuses to be recorded. We have no idea what their discussions are.
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As probably has every other President who has met with Putin. The difference is the 'more flexibility after the election' line which of course President Obama had no intention that we hear, but we did. We have absolutely no reason to believe President Trump is at all devious or dishonest in what he tells Putin and then tells Congress and/or us. But when a President is caught admitting that he is not being forthcoming in his official relationship with Russia, or his campaign rhetoric is not reliable as opposed to what he intends to deal with Russia, that should not be okay.
 
Fledermaus said:
Screaming CIA, CIA, CIA over and over again is childish.

Here in the real world the CIA isn't omnipotent.
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You can pretend that the CIA doesn't exist and doesn't destabilize, but Abrams is the billboard for covert activities. Like Trump said, "we're doing a lot of things."

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AlbqOwl said:
As probably has every other President who has met with Putin. The difference is the 'more flexibility after the election' line which of course President Obama had no intention that we hear, but we did. We have absolutely no reason to believe President Trump is at all devious or dishonest in what he tells Putin and then tells Congress and/or us. But when a President is caught admitting that he is not being forthcoming in his official relationship with Russia, or his campaign rhetoric is not reliable as opposed to what he intends to deal with Russia, that should not be okay.
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We don't have any reason to believe trump is at all devious or dishonest??? Hahaha...wow, what a joke.
 
DaveFagan said:
You can pretend that the CIA doesn't exist and doesn't destabilize, but Abrams is the billboard for covert activities. Like Trump said, "we're doing a lot of things."

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Who is pretending the CIA doesn't exist? Not me.

Who is pretending the CIA never destabillized countries? Not me.
Strawmen rejected.

You on the other hand blame every ill in the world on the evil CIA...

Crop failure, CIA. Chavez screws up his economy, CIA. Pencil lead breaks, CIA. Arab Spring, CIA. Iraq kills Iraqi, CIA. Waxy Yellow Buildup, CIA. Broken crown, CIA. Ukrainian uprising, CIA.

Nothing happens in the world without the OMNIPRESENT CIA pulling the strings..
 
Finch said:
We don't have any reason to believe trump is at all devious or dishonest??? Hahaha...wow, what a joke.
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Feel free to show your video and/or direct quote in full context to support your opinion. If you can't do that, please consider that you really have nothing more to go on than how you feel about somebody. And also please consider that in so doing, you could be, sometimes even are likely to be, bearing false witness.
 
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