A Question to Liberals: What is Liberalism to You?

These are questions that I have been wanting to posit to members on this forum who are self-described liberals and those who identify with liberalism to one degree or another:

First, how do you define liberalism and what a liberal is?

Second, why do you resonate to liberalism and describe yourself as a liberal?

Now if you are wondering why I (a far-right conservative) am asking, this isn't to start some vituperative flame war or pose any kind of "gotcha." The reason I ask is because there is nothing more frustrating to me when someone presumes to know what I believe in without asking me, poses a strawman of my overarching political philosophy, and then proceeds to attack views that I do not believe in or have never defended.

In the spirit of goodwill, I want to know where we disagree, and where our principles diverge (if they even meet at all). That way in the future, most of us know what we are discussing when I (and hopefully others) discuss or refer to "liberalism" in general.

Felis Leo said:

These are questions that I have been wanting to posit to members on this forum who are self-described liberals and those who identify with liberalism to one degree or another:

First, how do you define liberalism and what a liberal is?

Second, why do you resonate to liberalism and describe yourself as a liberal?

Now if you are wondering why I (a far-right conservative) am asking, this isn't to start some vituperative flame war or pose any kind of "gotcha." The reason I ask is because there is nothing more frustrating to me when someone presumes to know what I believe in without asking me, poses a strawman of my overarching political philosophy, and then proceeds to attack views that I do not believe in or have never defended.

In the spirit of goodwill, I want to know where we disagree, and where our principles diverge (if they even meet at all). That way in the future, most of us know what we are discussing when I (and hopefully others) discuss or refer to "liberalism" in general.

Click to expand...

I would tell you, but it might get me kicked out of the cool kids club, because some of my ideologies align differently with hard-core liberals.

I agree with the more progressive and libertarian aspects of liberalism, i.e. full LGBTQ rights, legalized marijuana, legalized early term abortion, etc. When it comes to criminal law, I tend to be solid libertarian: If there's no victim, then there's no crime.

One area I do not agree with liberals is that I support second amendment rights; again more libertarian in that regard.

Where I depart from libertarians and trend more liberal is that I do not trust laissez-faire capitalism, though I definitely support a carefully regulated free market. I do not fear taxes so long as they are used to wisely regulate the market and help the less fortunate. Social programs do not equal "Socialism" to me. I see competition between profit-driven private enterprise and socially conscious federal regulation as a good thing, and I very much fear any law or regulation that gives either one a distinct advantage over the other. Where they meet in the middle is where a country thrives, in my opinion.

In the current political climate, I tend to feel like on average we're a little too far to the right, therefore I tend to identify with liberals more than conservatives. If we were on the brink of full-blown Socialism, that would probably be reversed.

Felis Leo said:

These are questions that I have been wanting to posit to members on this forum who are self-described liberals and those who identify with liberalism to one degree or another:

First, how do you define liberalism and what a liberal is?

Second, why do you resonate to liberalism and describe yourself as a liberal?

Now if you are wondering why I (a far-right conservative) am asking, this isn't to start some vituperative flame war or pose any kind of "gotcha." The reason I ask is because there is nothing more frustrating to me when someone presumes to know what I believe in without asking me, poses a strawman of my overarching political philosophy, and then proceeds to attack views that I do not believe in or have never defended.

In the spirit of goodwill, I want to know where we disagree, and where our principles diverge (if they even meet at all). That way in the future, most of us know what we are discussing when I (and hopefully others) discuss or refer to "liberalism" in general.

Click to expand...

Well there are different kinds of liberals.

But the main branch that exists in the West is based on philosophers like John Stuart Mill, the belief in equality of opportunity, not outcome like socialists but opportunity. This is the main ideology behind what we call liberal democracy, the foundation of Western society. Part of this is the concept of positive rights and freedoms, like the right to an education, the right to vote, etc. in addition to negative rights freedoms like freedom of expression. People also have a right to self-determination and a voice in their government.

I resonate with this because like anyone else it is what I believe to be how society should be organized and strive towards.

Felis Leo said:

These are questions that I have been wanting to posit to members on this forum who are self-described liberals and those who identify with liberalism to one degree or another:

First, how do you define liberalism and what a liberal is?

Second, why do you resonate to liberalism and describe yourself as a liberal?

Now if you are wondering why I (a far-right conservative) am asking, this isn't to start some vituperative debate or pose any kind of "gotcha." The reason I ask is because there is nothing more frustrating to me when someone presumes to know what I believe in without asking me, poses a strawman of my overarching political philosophy, and then proceeds to attack views that I do not believe in or have never defended.

In the spirit of goodwill, I want to know where we disagree, where our principles diverge (if they even meet at all). That way in the future, most of us know what we are discussing when I discuss "liberalism" in general.

Click to expand...

This is a question I am always willing to answer honestly.

To me liberalism is the idea that all human beings are equal in the eyes of the law, and that the role of government is to protect the rights of its citizens. I believe that liberalism has to combat inequality because extreme inequality generates class conflict.

There is a particular statement from the code of Hammurabi that resonates with me: among the many roles king Hammurabi has to perform, the code States that as king he has to punish the wicked and evil doers

”so that the strong should not harm the weak”;

Click to expand...

The Avalon Project : Code of Hammurabi

That is what I believe government’s purpose to be: to protect the rights of citizens from those who seek to do them harm. In that regard, the greatest threat comes from individuals, organizations, or groups who wield great financial, economic, and political power and privilege and who pursue greater power and influence with no regard for who stands in their way.

I believe in individual rights, but I care about the collective rights of other people because my rights are equal to those of everyone else.

in general, Fighting for the rights and well beings of other citizens, even when it doesn't benefit us personally. I'm not gay, trans, but fight for the rights of those people. I am not starving but fight for our goverment to take care of starving people. I make good money but fight for min wage increases for those busting their butt in low paying jobs. you get the point

compared to conservatives, who in general, are more selfish and just fight for things that affect them. Examples, the many peopel that will excuse racism and extremism because hey, they are going to get a tax cut. Or those who grew up liberal and as soon as they make good money, they turn conservatives because the hell with other people, they want more of their money. Or the rural folks demanding government bring their jobs (coal, manufacturing) back, but fight against min wage increases and rights of low wage workers that are not from where they live. Or they find abortion and gay marriage wrong, therefore they want to prevent everybody else from doing it.

A world of difference between leftism and liberalism.

Felis Leo said:

First, how do you define liberalism and what a liberal is?

Second, why do you resonate to liberalism and describe yourself as a liberal?

Click to expand...

Liberalism is about basic fairness, equal opportunity, and a belief that you should always try to do unto others as you would have them do on to you. It is a belief that all men(and women) are created equal. That we agree to live in a society because it is mutually beneficial to us all. That for a society to long endure you must be able to live and let live.

With respect to government specifically Liberals understand that in any competition between individuals or groups you must have rules for fair play and to improve competition, and you must have third party oversite by objective arbitrators to enforce those rules. You must also create an environment that is conducive to fair competition.

trixare4kids said:

A world of difference between leftism and liberalism.

Click to expand...

Nope. Not remotely.

I am a classical liberal.

Why I left the left...

MrWonka said:

Nope. Not remotely.

Click to expand...

Yes, completely different.

lwf said:

When it comes to criminal law, I tend to be solid libertarian: If there's no victim, then there's no crime.

Click to expand...

Then I would say you are a liberal when it comes to criminal law you may just disagree with what constitutes a victim. If someone is flying through a residential neighborhood at 100 mph but doesn't physically hurt anybody was anybody a victim? Or does the legitimate fear that is created by knowing someone did that in an area where your children play meet the bar for victimization?

lwf said:

One area I do not agree with liberals is that I support second amendment rights; again more libertarian in that regard.

Where I depart from libertarians and trend more liberal is that I do not trust laissez-faire capitalism

Click to expand...

I don't know man, you pretty much just sound like a full-blown liberal. Liberalism agrees with libertarianism when it comes to personal freedom, but shares your beliefs when it comes to economic freedom.

With respect to Guns, liberals are not at all anti-gun they simply recognize there comes a point where a weapon becomes so deadly that it's only realistic purposes is offensive in nature and not defensive. It's simply a question of where do you draw that line? How many people could a weapon be used to murder in a very short period of time before it becomes too dangerous for the average civilian to own it? 5? 10? 50? 100? Furthermore, what is the probability that an individual will use a weapon for offensive purposes? Have we no right to look at a person's criminal history or judge someone's mental health before we give them access to a deadly weapon?

trixare4kids said:

Yes, completely different.

Click to expand...

Do you actually have any of your own thoughts or is your mind just one big youtube video?

lwf said:

I agree with the more progressive and libertarian aspects of liberalism, i.e. full LGBTQ rights, legalized marijuana, legalized early term abortion, etc. When it comes to criminal law, I tend to be solid libertarian: If there's no victim, then there's no crime.

One area I do not agree with liberals is that I support second amendment rights; again more libertarian in that regard.

Where I depart from libertarians and trend more liberal is that I do not trust laissez-faire capitalism, though I definitely support a carefully regulated free market. I do not fear taxes so long as they are used to wisely regulate the market and help the less fortunate. Social programs do not equal "Socialism" to me. I see competition between profit-driven private enterprise and socially conscious federal regulation as a good thing, and I very much fear any law or regulation that gives either one a distinct advantage over the other. Where they meet in the middle is where a country thrives, in my opinion.

In the current political climate, I tend to feel like on average we're a little too far to the right, therefore I tend to identify with liberals more than conservatives. If we were on the brink of full-blown Socialism, that would probably be reversed.

Click to expand...

^^^ pretty close to my take, so I may not be the type the OP is looking for.

I totally get the frustration of having people pigeon hole and stereotype you. That's a cop out. It fails more often than not, but it's easy.

MrWonka said:

Do you actually have any of your own thoughts or is your mind just one big youtube video?

Click to expand...

It is you who said that you disagree with me, so the onus is on YOU to tell me what I have wrong.
Since you are not willing to do this, you now attempt to make it personal.

The major difference between liberalism and leftism should be obvious. Liberals are open-minded, proponents of individual rights. Leftists are illiberal, and are rigidly for group think, the rights of the collective.
You sir, are not a liberal.

Felis Leo said:

These are questions that I have been wanting to posit to members on this forum who are self-described liberals and those who identify with liberalism to one degree or another:

First, how do you define liberalism and what a liberal is?

Second, why do you resonate to liberalism and describe yourself as a liberal?

Now if you are wondering why I (a far-right conservative) am asking, this isn't to start some vituperative debate or pose any kind of "gotcha." The reason I ask is because there is nothing more frustrating to me when someone presumes to know what I believe in without asking me, poses a strawman of my overarching political philosophy, and then proceeds to attack views that I do not believe in or have never defended.

In the spirit of goodwill, I want to know where we disagree, where our principles diverge (if they even meet at all). That way in the future, most of us know what we are discussing when I discuss "liberalism" in general.

Click to expand...

My understanding of the terms 'conservative' and 'liberal' dates back to what I was told when I was in high-school. Simply put, I consider the former to be adherance to the status quo, and the latter to be advocation for change. Going by that, what is 'liberal' and what is 'conservative' can and will change depending on where society is at. About ten years ago, advocation for gay marriage rights would have been considered a liberal position, but now I think it has shifted towards being the moderate position. Once upon a time, conservatives would have mostly been pro-segregation, but now most conservatives would be appalled by the position, even those that insist that systematic racism isn't a major problem in this country, and those that are actually in favor of it have mostly become a silent minority.

I despise an adherance to traditionalist values for traditionalism's sake. I am directly at odds with the religious right, and advocate for things that the public has long-since deemed radical, such as the legalization, taxation, and regulation of virtually every type of drug. I also feel the same way about prostitution. A moderate from the 1950's, hell, even the 1980's would think that I'm completely insane, and I suppose that's what makes me liberal. On the subject of minorities, I acknowledge that they generally face discrimination and obstacles that we in the majority are not likely to see, but I don't necessarily agree with every stance that stems from that; feminism being a particularly splintered topic.

I consider myself to be either far-left or center-left on most social/foreign-policy issues, but if my stances on most of these issues became the status-quo, I would then have to consider myself to either be a moderate, or even a conservative.

I honestly don't know what to think about the connection between liberalism and conservatism on social issues, and liberalism and conservatism on economic issues. While I fall in line with what's generally considered to be liberal on both fronts, I don't think the two are neccessarilly related, and the Democratic Party championing both (or at least, paying lip-service to both) is a fairly modern development. While I absolutely don't think political parties and political idealogies are the same, I do think that they shape one another.

Edit -- Also, PragerU is absolute garbage.

trixare4kids said:

A world of difference between leftism and liberalism.

Click to expand...

Good people don't Prager others. If you have an opinion, share it, not Prager's.

<alt>doxygen said:

Good people don't Prager others. If you have an opinion, share it, not Prager's.

Click to expand...

Scroll on by if you are this intolerant...
I suppose now you are going to convince me that you're a "liberal."

DH Kirkwood said:

Edit -- Also, PragerU is absolute garbage.

Click to expand...

How can you reconcile your "frustration of having people pigeon hole and stereotype you" when you did exactly this to Dave Ruin's group?
Most liberals, progressives would just say, 'to each their own'...

So you think you're tolerant?

trixare4kids said:

It is you who said that you disagree with me, so the onus is on YOU to tell me what I have wrong.

Click to expand...

You didn't offer your opinion. You posted links to a bunch of stupid youtube videos that I don't feel like watching.

trixare4kids said:

The major difference between liberalism and leftism should be obvious. Liberals are open-minded, proponents of individual rights. Leftists are illiberal, and are rigidly for group think, the rights of the collective.
You sir, are not a liberal.

Click to expand...

Your description of Leftist described approximately zero people that actually exist in the real world. Take your straw man to OZ and get him a brain.

trixare4kids said:

How can you reconcile your "frustration of having people pigeon hole and stereotype you" when you did exactly this to Dave Ruin's group?

Click to expand...

It's not a stereotype or pigeonholing when you wear hats that tell us exactly what you support.

trixare4kids said:

Most liberals, progressives would just say, 'to each their own'...

Click to expand...

No, they would say live and let live. But since Trump and his supporters have no interest in leaving the rest of us alone we are under no obligation to leave you alone either. Tolerance does not mean letting someone walk all over you. Standing up for yourself when your basic rights and freedoms are being attacked is perfectly acceptable.

trixare4kids said:

Scroll on by if you are this intolerant...
I suppose now you are going to convince me that you're a "liberal."

Click to expand...

Trix, my political compass results are in my profile (left-libertarian).

The OP asked for liberals. I'm my first response, I indicated that I'm probably not what is sought.

I very much doubt he want's Prager's confirmation bias for righties strawmen.

<alt>doxygen said:

^^^ pretty close to my take, so I may not be the type the OP is looking for.

I totally get the frustration of having people pigeon hole and stereotype you. That's a cop out. It fails more often than not, but it's easy.

Click to expand...

No, you are. The problem is that right-wing propaganda has successfully convinced too many people that Liberal is a pejorative despite the fact that it pretty much flawlessly aligns with the beliefs of the vast majority of Americans.

trixare4kids said:

Scroll on by if you are this intolerant...
I suppose now you are going to convince me that you're a "liberal."

Click to expand...

Yes, he is, and so am I. You're the one who doesn't seem to have your ducks in a row. Maybe it's time you tried Wheaties.