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Colorado OKs joining National Popular Vote compact

The compact only goes into effect if there are states of 270+ EVs signed on. At that point, since a majority of EVs will be under the compact, the popular vote will determine the winner. As it stands now with only 181 votes, if Trump wins the popular vote nationally but PresiDem wins Colorado, Colorado's votes will still go to PresiDem.

Alright, well kudos to you (once again) for having been more knowledgeable on this than I. I appreciate your honest and straight forward responses.
 
Hell yeah!

One state closer to reaching the 270 to render the electoral college completely useless.

Colorado OKs joining National Popular Vote compact to cast all electoral votes for popular winner in presidential elections

Under a bill passed Thursday by the Colorado House, Colorado has agreed to join 12 other states in a compact system that aims to cast all its electoral votes for the winner of the national popular presidential vote.

The compact kicks in as soon as it is adopted by states possessing a combined 270 electoral votes, or a majority of the 538 electoral votes,

The bill passed the Democrat-controlled House and now goes to Gov. Jared Polis, a Democrat, who has pledged to sign it.

Colorado's nine electoral votes will join 10 other states, one commonwealth and one district for a total of 181 electoral votes, 89 votes short of becoming binding.

One of the most delusional hopes out there. So what are we looking at here...California, New York, Washington, Colorado, ect? So basically it's just a Democrat self-licking lollipop.
 
If you see a majority vote as the "tyranny of the majority," then you would by reason see every single other type of election in the United States as a "tyranny of the majority."

And if a national popular election result is a "tyranny of the majority," then you would have to explain what's so great about a "tyranny of the minority."

After untold generations of privilege, equality feels like oppression.
 
Lets consider the other side of this for a second.....

The idea that a Republican candidate could simply ignore 12% of the population because they know full well they aren't going to win any of the votes in California is just plain ****ed up. If there was some incentive for them to campaign in California, you would force candidates to try harder everywhere, since you couldn't count on winning 47% of a state versus your opponent winning 43% and getting every EC vote from that state.

Don't forget that for the last several elections we have not only felt the historic effects of the Electoral College which, if it existed as the sole proportioning factor, would be largely benign, but we have also been subjected to Buckley v. Valeo, Citizens United, McCutcheon v. FEC, weapons grade gerrymandering AND the gutting of the Voting Rights Act all ON TOP OF the EC.

Don't think for one moment that all these factors do not work in concert with each other. Any campaign manager and any political consultants who want to keep their jobs know exactly how these all work together, along with big data analytics.

The Electoral College, in and of itself, if perceived in a sort of "vacuum", is not doing anything different than it ever has for our entire history.
It is to POTUS elections what Affirmative Action is to hiring because it produces a similar effect.

And yet, it seems that all those who insist that Buckley v. Valeo, Citizens United, McCutcheon v. FEC, weapons grade gerrymandering AND the gutting of the Voting Rights Act are all just when laid ON TOP OF the Electoral College are dead set against Affirmative Action.

Very interesting.
 
Hell yeah!

One state closer to reaching the 270 to render the electoral college completely useless.

Colorado OKs joining National Popular Vote compact to cast all electoral votes for popular winner in presidential elections

Under a bill passed Thursday by the Colorado House, Colorado has agreed to join 12 other states in a compact system that aims to cast all its electoral votes for the winner of the national popular presidential vote.

The compact kicks in as soon as it is adopted by states possessing a combined 270 electoral votes, or a majority of the 538 electoral votes,

The bill passed the Democrat-controlled House and now goes to Gov. Jared Polis, a Democrat, who has pledged to sign it.

Colorado's nine electoral votes will join 10 other states, one commonwealth and one district for a total of 181 electoral votes, 89 votes short of becoming binding.

So you support Colorado's electors (ETAL) IGNORING THE POPULAR VOTE of THEIR OWN STATE, if the winner is not the candidate California, New York and Illinois choose?
 
Correct and thats a good thing IMO . . . .

party is meaningless to me I support the popular vote for president like every other elected official, MINIMUM if we keep the EC forever the votes should be based on percentage. 1 easy math example. state has 20 EC votes, there was 10 million popular votes, 6 went one way 4 went another. the EC votes should go 12 and 8.

I actually like this proposed percentage system the most. Its been talked to about before and I saw someone crunch the numbers for both 2016 and 2000 elections. Trump still would have won under this percentage based system by very close margin, however Bush would have lost to Gore.
 
I have been thinking about this thread. The question i have is: did any of these states reach their respective decisions using a popular vote, or did they jam it thru with representational democracy? SMH

You mean by reps selected via popular votes?
 
So you support Colorado's electors (ETAL) IGNORING THE POPULAR VOTE of THEIR OWN STATE, if the winner is not the candidate California, New York and Illinois choose?

I support that state abiding by the constitution and choosing how their elections are done. Why do you hate the constitution Grok?
 
I actually like this proposed percentage system the most. Its been talked to about before and I saw someone crunch the numbers for both 2016 and 2000 elections. Trump still would have won under this percentage based system by very close margin, however Bush would have lost to Gore.

thats interesting i didnt know that, i find that hard to believe but that doesnt matter to me. I would just like a better system more like every other one we use.
 
So what happens if in a state party to the convention on candidate wins the state vote but his/her opponent wins the popular vote? Could the state be sued for voter disenfranchisement?

The Constitution allows the voters of a state to choose to be disenfranchised. The present system people vote by states, which the compact destroys.
The real problem will be along the lines of recounts and the subsequent delays. In a close popular vote election, recounts that may not be worth it under the present system may well become worth it. It would also run afoul of state election law as far as when recounts are mandated or allowed.
 
I agree, but I'm not sure they are really being well represented through the current system. Currently about 40 states are pretty solid in where they are going to vote. So it is only 10 or so states that get any focus anyway. A democrat can ignore Wyoming just as much as a Republican can ignore Delaware. The parties and candidates don't take those 35-40 states into account as it is, as they are givens. Under a popular system a candidate would have to care about voters in Wyoming. A republican can't afford for republican Wyomingites to stay home and a democrat has reason to care about a minority that can actually help get them elected. Right now, who cares about Wyoming? Neither party does. They care a lot more about Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, etc.

You seem to care about the President representing all of the country, and I agree with that sentiment; but are we really well served by a system that has one president ignore the concerns of the heartland while the next ignores the concerns of the coasts (broad generalizations of course)? Too often I see people decrying the notion that NY and CA would dominate, but those states aren't monolithic and there almost certainly millions of Republican potential voters in those states who don't bother because they live in reliably blue districts. You could make a strong case that a republican in many wards (districts?) of San Francisco has no reason to vote. They won't be deciding anything from Dog Catcher all the way to POTUS. Make this change and they actually have a reason to vote. They can add their voice to almost 5 million Californians who any Republican candidate would have to pay attention to.





Fair, unless of course this compact is deemed constitutional. It would likely be better to have a constitutional change, but as it appears that states can allocate electors by means other than a simple state-wide majority, it is likely an open question as to whether this is constitutional.

As for it being, "short-sighted, emotionally driven idiocy that will not go to the benefit of the Republic.", perhaps. I'm sure the same kind of thing was said around all major changes. Income tax, giving women the right to vote, abolishing slavery, outlawing alcohol, etc. And you can likely find some who still today will argue most of those, but I don't think it is as easy as you portray to prognosticate the outcome of a slight shift to give more power to individual American Citizens vs power to individual states.

However, one can find more Republicans in California than in Wyoming. Or more Democrats in Texas than North Dakota. In the interest of economizing, the larger states will receive the Lion share of attention by the candidates.
 
The Constitution allows the voters of a state to choose to be disenfranchised. The present system people vote by states, which the compact destroys.
The real problem will be along the lines of recounts and the subsequent delays. In a close popular vote election, recounts that may not be worth it under the present system may well become worth it. It would also run afoul of state election law as far as when recounts are mandated or allowed.

I disagree with your claim about Constitution allowing disenfranchisement. Be that as it may, I'm not clear how the fifteen or twenty states in the Compact could compel states not in it to conduct recounts.
 
I disagree with your claim about Constitution allowing disenfranchisement. Be that as it may, I'm not clear how the fifteen or twenty states in the Compact could compel states not in it to conduct recounts.

Even with the compact, a president is still elected by the electors, in 51 separate elections, and not by the popular vote in those 51 elections.
So let's say the majority of the people of Colorado vote for the Democrat in an election, but nationwide the Republican had more votes. The Colorado electors would thus be from the minority slate. Which means the majority of the voters in Colorado were disenfranchised in electing the president. Which is ok, because the Constitution gives the state's the authority to allocate its electors as it sees fit.

However, those disenfranchised Coloradans now have a vested interest in the vote totals of other states. And thus a vested interest in the electoral laws of those states.
 
Even with the compact, a president is still elected by the electors, in 51 separate elections, and not by the popular vote in those 51 elections.
So let's say the majority of the people of Colorado vote for the Democrat in an election, but nationwide the Republican had more votes. The Colorado electors would thus be from the minority slate. Which means the majority of the voters in Colorado were disenfranchised in electing the president. Which is ok, because the Constitution gives the state's the authority to allocate its electors as it sees fit.
Well, yeah, technically that's correct but I'd bet they'd be up to their armpits in lawsuits if they allocated the electoral votes contrary to the vote results.
Athanasfius said:
However, those disenfranchised Coloradans now have a vested interest in the vote totals of other states. And thus a vested interest in the electoral laws of those states.

They may have a "vested interest" but how are they going to force a recount?
 
Well, yeah, technically that's correct but I'd bet they'd be up to their armpits in lawsuits if they allocated the electoral votes contrary to the vote results.


They may have a "vested interest" but how are they going to force a recount?

Within Colorado, no doubt.
But that would be Colorado law and the Constitution gives Colorado the authority to allocate its electors as it sees fit.

How could they force recounts, or stop recounts?
The courts come to mind.
 
Within Colorado, no doubt.
But that would be Colorado law and the Constitution gives Colorado the authority to allocate its electors as it sees fit.

How could they force recounts, or stop recounts?
The courts come to mind.
Yeah, and the court proceedings and appeals may even finish by the next election. :roll:
 
Yeah, and the court proceedings and appeals may even finish by the next election. :roll:

It would have to be done in about a month.
Which is why the compact really won't do what is proponents claim it will.
 
It's Official: Clinton's Popular Vote Win Came Entirely From California | Investor's Business Daily

Popular vote total outside California:
Trump: 58,474,401
Clinton: 57,064,530
_________________
Trump: + 1.4 million

no Clinton won the popular vote with at least 2 states NY and CA.
that was it.

but CA pushed her over the edge by a good margin.
the fact is

that the system was setup to avoid that very scenario. where 1 or 2 hugely populist states control who the president is.

no bill and the people in Montana votes only counted because their votes counted in their state.
their votes wouldn't matter against CA and NY.

they would be irrelevant.

Cause the people in Montana are soooo relevant under the current system. They are completely taken for granted because they are so reliably one way. Just like all the people in California are with the current President. He makes no secret of not caring about California at all, because he knows he will never get a single EC vote from it. You don't want states ignored, but that is the system we have now. Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, Florida...Perhaps toss in Arizona, North Carolina, and Colorado. Add in Iowa, New Hampshire, and South Carolina for their outsized primary influence and you get to 11. 11 states that matter. 11 states to get the focus of our politics. Not exactly a great system.

I frankly don't understand the line of thinking that worries so much about California because its popular vote is large enough to cover the difference in the last election. In this century both parties have gotten popular vote wins, which means that California isn't always deciding everything. When GWB won the popular vote in 2004 it didn't matter what the margin in California was, because all the republican votes in Montana, Idaho, Ohio, Texas, and yes, even California were more. If a person is worried that republicans can't win a majority of Americans to their cause often enough and thus want to hold onto a system where they have an advantage of acres vs. people, okay be honest about it. But a popular vote system wouldn't suddenly cause small states to be ignored, they are already ignored. Candidates of both parties would certainly shift their strategies, but I think you'd see them shift in good ways. Democrats would have a reason to make their case to the plains states and republicans would have a reason to make their case to the coasts. You'd also see higher participation. Everyone would have a reason to feel their vote might matter. Right now a republican in California knows his vote won't matter in the same way a democrat in any of the plains states knows the same.
 
However, one can find more Republicans in California than in Wyoming. Or more Democrats in Texas than North Dakota. In the interest of economizing, the larger states will receive the Lion share of attention by the candidates.

Sure, but they already do. Not the same larger states, but it is all about Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Florida now. Not exactly a good cross section of the country (too bad west of the mighty miss!) If NY, CA, and TX get more attention it will not be at the expense of MT, VT, or MS; they get none now anyway. North Dakota doesn't get any attention in current system, but at least in a popular vote system the citizens of ND would matter individually as much as anyone else. Yeah, they aren't going to get a bunch of campaign stops, but at least in any election that might be close a democrat will care about concerns that can swing MT voters toward them, just as a republican will care about concerns that can swing VT voters towards them. I don't think you'll see politicians pandering to particular states, but rather campaigning on the issues that will move the needle the most nationally. You'll see much less of a purity test from either party on various issues but rather a move towards the center from both as total turnout will matter much more than base turnout.
 
I actually like this proposed percentage system the most. Its been talked to about before and I saw someone crunch the numbers for both 2016 and 2000 elections. Trump still would have won under this percentage based system by very close margin, however Bush would have lost to Gore.

I could get on board with this as a compromise. Would make some interesting campaign dynamics. Large states where a candidate can move the needle would be important (as at least some of them always are), but smaller states might matter a bit too. Can Republicans dominate Wyoming enough to get all 3 of its votes, or will it split 2-1? It would probably be the medium states that get increased activity, as a 10 EC state could see a swing of 1 where Wyoming likely would always be 2-1 (and thus just as ignored as it is now).
 
I support that state abiding by the constitution and choosing how their elections are done. Why do you hate the constitution Grok?

I don't like the idea of our Electoral Votes being ceded to people other than Coloradans. Though as pointed out earlier in the thread, this pact does not take effect unless 270 EC votes are pledged, so that is highly unlikely.
 
Sure, but they already do. Not the same larger states, but it is all about Ohio, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Florida now. Not exactly a good cross section of the country (too bad west of the mighty miss!) If NY, CA, and TX get more attention it will not be at the expense of MT, VT, or MS; they get none now anyway. North Dakota doesn't get any attention in current system, but at least in a popular vote system the citizens of ND would matter individually as much as anyone else. Yeah, they aren't going to get a bunch of campaign stops, but at least in any election that might be close a democrat will care about concerns that can swing MT voters toward them, just as a republican will care about concerns that can swing VT voters towards them. I don't think you'll see politicians pandering to particular states, but rather campaigning on the issues that will move the needle the most nationally. You'll see much less of a purity test from either party on various issues but rather a move towards the center from both as total turnout will matter much more than base turnout.

The electoral college system has politicians and political parties spending far too much time on strategies aimed at specific states according to the number of electoral votes they might gain there, and even specific districts within those states. It's more about "swing" states than about issues.

One oerson, one vote. Quit scrambling around the country trying to reach that magic number of electoral votes, and instead tell ALL voters what your plan is for healthcare or wealth disparity or education ... whatever the real kitchen table issues are.
 
The electoral college system has politicians and political parties spending far too much time on strategies aimed at specific states according to the number of electoral votes they might gain there, and even specific districts within those states. It's more about "swing" states than about issues.

You think that's not going to be the case is a purely popular vote? lol

No, it will be just like that and more. States like Colorado won't matter, politicians will focus only on major cities in a handful of states.

lol

The EC at least gives a little more weight to rural States and forces attention to be spread out over more States than if we just had a pure popular vote.
 
You think that's not going to be the case is a purely popular vote? lol

No, it will be just like that and more. States like Colorado won't matter, politicians will focus only on major cities in a handful of states.

lol

The EC at least gives a little more weight to rural States and forces attention to be spread out over more States than if we just had a pure popular vote.

That would be the obvious result of a purely popular POTUS voting system since over 80% of the US population is now urban.
 
That would be the obvious result of a purely popular POTUS voting system since over 80% of the US population is now urban.

It's amazing how some have deluded themselves into thinking that a pure popular vote would somehow make it so everyone was taken into account. Colorado has just under 2% of the population. Why would any politician stop by Colorado or care about Colorado for under 2% the population that will likely be split close to 50/50?

I think that the "popular vote now" folk are people who were just pissed off that Hillary lost and they're trying to find a way to justify it. But a popular vote isn't going to make everyone's vote somehow matter. It will make city votes matter, a handful of states matter more. If folk are made about the focus on swing states, that **** ain't gonna change with a popular vote.

And then this whole "oh well then politicians will tell us their plan on..." lol, that ain't gonna happen either. Popular vote or EC, you ain't changing the hyperpartisan rhetoric and propaganda. It's not going to all of a sudden be "oh ****, there's a popular vote, I might as well tell them my actual platform now". lol It's going to be mostly the same, same money, same speeches, same propaganda, but with a tighter focus because politicians can ignore the entire middle of the US and focus solely on cities in a handful of states.
 
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