Another Trump supporter busted plotting mass murder of liberal senators

KLATTU said:

Oh come on. AOC ( cups) and Omar have been the targets ( ooops is that a bad word ) of the rw media since they came on the scene.
Trump hardly ever mentions either of them.

the left has taken a dramatic turn leftward in the past couple years and that has energized the right. Unfortunately, including this lunatic.

You could more logically make a case that the over the top anti-Trump rhetoric by the left ( including almost every person on that list
) on that list has stirred up the rw hornet's nest .

But I would never say those people should tone it down or else they might trigger some nut. No politician should ever be held responsible for triggering an unhinged lunatic unless they directly call for violent action, which never happens

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Any person (like Trump) that denigrates people to levels that are not real (worst, never saw anyone like that, will do untold damage) will "stimulate" action. Normal is something we live by every day and not something that makes us do anything, excesses/hyperbole does generate movement and action and everything that comes out of Trump's mouth is an excess/hyperbole (the best I have ever seen, the worst I have ever seen).

No one gets up from the sofa to go and meet a normal looking girl but everyone will get up from the sofa to meet the "most beautiful girl you have ever seen".

Do you disagree that excesses and hyperbole does generate action in people?

Helix said:

improving the mental healthcare system will help to lower the number of untreated nutters buying into to extremism and then building an arsenal. it won't solve the problem, as not every domestic terrorist is a nutter. however, it's a piece of the puzzle.

when i see stories like this, i have to look at the fact that we're a country in which it's exceptionally easy to get guns but exceptionally expensive and difficult to get mental health care for people depending on insurance and a number of other factors. that seems like a dumb setup.

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I agree with you but compared to how many racists parents exist to how many people are mentally ill is hundreds or thousands times more.

Yes, we need to address mental health but many of the people that are mentally sick is because of the parents and how they treated their children. We first need to treat the source/root and then move forward from there.

Luckyone said:

I agree with you but compared to how many racists parents exist to how many people are mentally ill is hundreds or thousands times more.

Yes, we need to address mental health but many of the people that are mentally sick is because of the parents and how they treated their children. We first need to treat the source/root and then move forward from there.

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as you would probably suspect, i'm not a fan of racism. i don't like seeing racists feeling empowered to bring their repugnant views back into the public square. i had deceived myself into thinking that we'd finally progressed to the point where expressing those kinds of views in public was akin to lighting up a smoke in a McDonalds : used to be more normal, but it isn't done anymore, and if you do it, someone will likely react and put a stop to it in under a minute. it was kind of a shock to see racist scumbags marching in the streets while the president dogwhistled to them. either way, i'm glad that they caught this idiot before he had a chance to open fire on anyone.

Helix said:

as you would probably suspect, i'm not a fan of racism. i don't like seeing racists feeling empowered to bring their repugnant views back into the public square. i had deceived myself into thinking that we'd finally progressed to the point where expressing those kinds of views in public was akin to lighting up a smoke in a McDonalds : used to be more normal, but it isn't done anymore, and if you do it, someone will likely react and put a stop to it in under a minute. it was kind of a shock to see racist scumbags marching in the streets while the president dogwhistled to them. either way, i'm glad that they caught this idiot before he had a chance to open fire on anyone.

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One thing for sure that we both agree on is that Trump stimulates racial behavior. As I said in another post, normal behavior does not generally stimulate action but hyperbole and excess does. Everything with Trump is the best or the worst ever and such words stimulate action and in his case, racist action.

We cannot have a President that stimulates the worst in people because there are a lot of people that have little or no control and giving them in essence a strong reason for doing something will break whatever little control they have and we see what we are seeing. There will always be people who are crazy but I don't think we need to stimulate an army of them coming because Trump stimulated them to action with his negative hyperbole words.

The guy was obviously crazy. Look at his list, who the hell thinks that is a sane selection? - If you have to wipe out an enemy of the people, who better than the Department of Motor Vehicles? Because everyone hates the DMV, left and right, the evil doer would have been the most popular guy in California, if not America.

vesper said:

Where were you Zalatix when the Bernie supporter planned an act where he was hoping to take out a number of Republicans on his list while they practiced on a baseball diamond for a game that would benefit charity? Scalise just about died and spent weeks in ICU recovering followed by multiple surgeries and today still has to have aids to walk.

Later after they investigated James Hodskinson all the red flags were prominent on his social media accounts but our intelligence agencies didn't pick up on it in time.


So sit and spin on that one for awhile pal. There are nuts in both parties.

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Actually, there are nuts beyond the fringes of both parties that claim to support a particular party.
When you get right down to it, none of the party platforms and planks support what the nuts are supporting, so it's only the nut's claim, and really, how much can you count on a nut's claims?

iguanaman said:

Birds of a feather flock together. Sorry but that is just the way it is.

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I guess this would equally apply to the Bernie supporter who shot up the congressional baseball practice then?

Luckyone said:

I don't think that improving the mental health care system is the answer. I think the answer is to stop racism in its roots, which are the parents of the children.

Here is a pic that says it all:

View attachment 67251062

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While racism in the US is at historic lows while racist attack hoaxes appear to be at an all time high?

eohrnberger said:

I guess this would equally apply to the Bernie supporter who shot up the congressional baseball practice then?

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Were people going to rally's to support the shooter? The people at Charlottesville rallied with Nazi's.

eohrnberger said:

While racism in the US is at historic lows while racist attack hoaxes appear to be at an all time high?

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You need to come out with links to back up your statement about "historic lows"

I had to go through 3 pages in Google before I found out any comparisons between "Trump Era racism versus the past 50 years" and this is the only article that compares the time frame.

According to the professor of political science at Emory University, Alan Abramowitz, "the attacks are now much more blatant and out open, at a level not seen since the 1950s and 1960s."

eohrnberger said:

I guess this would equally apply to the Bernie supporter who shot up the congressional baseball practice then?

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"equally apply"?

I don't think so. The sanders supporter hated Trump and made a statement by attacking a group of Republicans that were playing baseball. He did not target them individually but as a group. It was a helter-skelter attack without much planning. Hate running rampant.

The Coast Guard officer had been planning the attack for 2 years and he had a very specific list of who he wanted to kill. This was not a rampant attack by someone filled with hate but an organized attack on the leadership of the Democratic group. This was like the previous attack with pipe bombs that had a list of people to target. This kind of planning is not just emotions but a well-defined attack to take out the leadership.

There is nothing "equal" about these attacks and you saying so just goes to underscore your lack of interest in seeing things like this not happen.

Excon said:

So we have established that you were wrong the first time by referencing the march the night before that had not a damn thing to do with the remarks the Presidient made the next day.

So what did you not understand about the rest of what you quoted of me the previous time? Do you really not understand there were more groups that attended the rally than that of the KKK and Neo Nazis?
FFS, there were three militia groups there that are not affiliated with any of those other groups. Are you going to say there were no "very fine people" among them? Especially when there sole purpose in being there was to preserve the peace? Are you really going to go that far? If not then admit that what the President said is likely true. There were some very fine people there.

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Let me engage in the same kind of foolishness the left always does.
Some Neo Nazis and KKK member have the same favorite foods that you like, therefore you are a KKK lovin Neo Nazi racist and are not a good person.

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iguanaman said:

Birds of a feather flock together. Sorry but that is just the way it is.

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iguanaman said:

Were people going to rally's to support the shooter? The people at Charlottesville rallied with Nazi's.

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Using your own 'Birds of a feather flock together' logic, then Bernie supporters are.

I stand by my previous post:

eohrnberger said:

Actually, there are nuts beyond the fringes of both parties that claim to support a particular party.
When you get right down to it, none of the party platforms and planks support what the nuts are supporting, so it's only the nut's claim, and really, how much can you count on a nut's claims?

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And expanding on it, would say that a party or campaign does not have any control over those who chose to publicly state their support of that party or campaign. Otherwise we would have to examine the what's going on in these instances,and many others.
I'd further expand on my post with the position that the use of hyperbole in political rhetoric by a candidate or elected official is most certainly not the same as direct incitement to violence, which is distinctly and significantly different. The people who claim they are one and the same are doing little more than blame shifting, and should be, and need to be, held accountable for their own actions.

As hyperbole is an often used rhetorical device used by all politicians, motivational speakers, and any others, and does not in any way excuse or to be used as an accusation of any sort by anyone.

Making those accusations and claims are one in the same as vilifying someone with a differing opinion, just because they have a differing opinion, with the sole purpose of silencing them, shutting downing debate and discussion, an often used tactic by the left to any opinions they disagree with.

What happened to defending freedom of speech? Or does that now apply only to speech, opinions and political positions that the left agrees with?

Are you not now employing the same dishonest and disgusting tactic?

Luckyone said:

"equally apply"?

I don't think so. The sanders supporter hated Trump and made a statement by attacking a group of Republicans that were playing baseball. He did not target them individually but as a group. It was a helter-skelter attack without much planning. Hate running rampant.

The Coast Guard officer had been planning the attack for 2 years and he had a very specific list of who he wanted to kill. This was not a rampant attack by someone filled with hate but an organized attack on the leadership of the Democratic group. This was like the previous attack with pipe bombs that had a list of people to target. This kind of planning is not just emotions but a well-defined attack to take out the leadership.

There is nothing "equal" about these attacks and you saying so just goes to underscore your lack of interest in seeing things like this not happen.

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See my post above.

Ineptitude is not a significant differentiator in these cases.

Luckyone said:

Any
Do you disagree that excesses and hyperbole does generate action in people?

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What do you mean by 'action?' like violence?

If you believe that then you would have to say that the excesses and hyperbole against Trump and Republicans by most of the people on that list have the potential to generate violent action in people .

I disagree with your statement and stick by mine. Political rehtoric is part of the game,No politician ( including al thos liberals) should ever be responsible for how some crazy nut might interpret what they say,

ultmd said:

What a ridiculous argument (in bold).

Shame on historians for holding Hitler accountable, huh? After all, he never publicly called for direct violence against Jews, Pols and Gypsies, right?
y.

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I don't know. I'm guessing he did call for that.
.
But even if he didn't call for it, he didn't just sit back and wait for others to act, he had them killed.
So no, Trump is not Hitler ( groan) .

Yes, it stimulates people to take action to "get rid of the problem themselves".

If you are given reasons to hate someone by someone you respect and want to follow, you will likely take actions against that person yourself.

The problem with your assessment of Democratic hyperbole and excesses against Trump does not hold water for one simple reason, Trump is the president and everyone knows that the President is the most closely guarded person in the world and therefore planning an attack on him is virtually impossible.

In addition, Trump has the bully pulpit and his words are listened to by everyone. The same cannot be said about the Democrats as their words are not listened to by everyone, especially since the Democrats don't have just one speaker as the Republicans do.

Last but not least, there is no way you can say that Trump is giving just "political rhetoric" as no other President or even any kind of a political figure has been as critical and abusive as Trump has been. His stimulation of hate against "the enemy (the Democrats) has been the absolute max of all time.

You are way off in your thinking and not using common sense

Luckyone said:

Yes, it stimulates people to take action to "get rid of the problem themselves".

If you are given reasons to hate someone by someone you respect and want to follow, you will likely take actions against that person yourself.

The problem with your assessment of Democratic hyperbole and excesses against Trump does not hold water for one simple reason, Trump is the president and everyone knows that the President is the most closely guarded person in the world and therefore planning an attack on him is virtually impossible.

In addition, Trump has the bully pulpit and his words are listened to by everyone. The same cannot be said about the Democrats as their words are not listened to by everyone, especially since the Democrats don't have just one speaker as the Republicans do.

Last but not least, there is no way you can say that Trump is giving just "political rhetoric" as no other President or even any kind of a political figure has been as critical and abusive as Trump has been. His stimulation of hate against "the enemy (the Democrats) has been the absolute max of all time.

You are way off in your thinking and not using common sense

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Other way around. I would bet big money that this kook was motivated by the words and actions of the people on his list - not anything Trump said. al those people on that list have said and done things that were jaw grinding for me.

KLATTU said:

Other way around. I would bet big money that this kook was motivated by the words and actions of the people on his list - not anything Trump said. al those people on that list have said and done things that were jaw grinding for me.

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Oh yeah, of course he had a personal feud with all 12 people he had listed as ones he wanted to kill. The fact that it was the entire Democratic leadership is of no importance. Trump saying that the Democrats are the "enemy" and that we would be better off without them had no effect on this man. He built this hate for the entire Democratic leadership all on his own, yeah right

KLATTU said:

Other way around. I would bet big money that this kook was motivated by the words and actions of the people on his list - not anything Trump said. all those people on that list have said and done things that were jaw grinding for me.

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by the way and addressing the bolded words of yours, would be specific as to what each of these people said that were jaw grinding for you? Please do not leave one single person on the list out.

eohrnberger said:

Using your own 'Birds of a feather flock together' logic, then Bernie supporters are.

I stand by my previous post:



And expanding on it, would say that a party or campaign does not have any control over those who chose to publicly state their support of that party or campaign. Otherwise we would have to examine the what's going on in these instances,and many others.

David Duke gives ringing endorsement to Keith Ellison for DNC chair ...[url]https://www.washingtontimes.com/.../david-duke-gives-ringing-endorsement-to-keith-...[/URL]
Feb 13, 2017 - David Duke wants the world to know that he supports Minnesota Rep. Keith Ellison's attempt to become the next chairman of the Democratic ...

Tulsi Gabbard rejects former KKK Grand Wizard David Duke's 2020 ...[url]https://www.rollcall.com/.../tulsi-gabbard-rejects-former-kkk-grand-wizard-david-duk...[/URL]
Feb 6, 2019 - Hawaii Democrat says she has 'strongly denounced David Duke's hateful views' and 'support' in the past. Posted Feb 6, 2019 10:59 AM.

Ex-KKK leader David Duke backs Tulsi Gabbard for president[url]https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/.../ex-kkk-leader-david-duke-backs-tulsi-gabba...[/URL]
Feb 5, 2019 - Former KKK leader David Duke appears to have switched his allegiance from President Trump to Democratic presidential ... Duke previously endorsed Gabbard for secretary of state after Trump won the election in 2016.
​

I'd further expand on my post with the position that the use of hyperbole in political rhetoric by a candidate or elected official is most certainly not the same as direct incitement to violence, which is distinctly and significantly different. The people who claim they are one and the same are doing little more than blame shifting, and should be, and need to be, held accountable for their own actions.

As hyperbole is an often used rhetorical device used by all politicians, motivational speakers, and any others, and does not in any way excuse or to be used as an accusation of any sort by anyone.

Making those accusations and claims are one in the same as vilifying someone with a differing opinion, just because they have a differing opinion, with the sole purpose of silencing them, shutting downing debate and discussion, an often used tactic by the left to any opinions they disagree with.

What happened to defending freedom of speech? Or does that now apply only to speech, opinions and political positions that the left agrees with?

Are you not now employing the same dishonest and disgusting tactic?

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Great work...and very informative.

Luckyone said:

by the way and addressing the bolded words of yours, would be specific as to what each of these people said that were jaw grinding for you? Please do not leave one single person on the list out.

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Desperately dancing, trying to make MINUTIAE the point, as the thread's premise crashes and burns...

iguanaman said:

Birds of a feather flock together. Sorry but that is just the way it is.

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Damn innocent until proven guilty, right?. I thought that would be your stance. Most leftist are like that now-a-days.
So based on your birds of a feather nonsese - Obama was a left wing loon, hate monger and racist simply because of who he associated with, right? (Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright and Louse Farrakhan)
And you are a racist because you like some of the same foods racists like too, right?

Probably his MAGA hat was the giveaway.

Excon said:

Damn innocent until proven guilty, right?. I thought that would be your stance. Most leftist are like that now-a-days.
So based on your birds of a feather nonsese - Obama was a left wing loon, hate monger and racist simply because of who he associated with, right? (Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright and Louse Farrakhan)
And you are a racist because you like some of the same foods racists like too, right?

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Attending a rally with Nazi's and white supremacists means something about you character and no amount of deflection can change that.

Luckyone said:

You need to come out with links to back up your statement about "historic lows"

I had to go through 3 pages in Google before I found out any comparisons between Trump Era racism versus the past 50 years abd this is the only article that compares the time frame.

According to the professor of political science at Emory University, Alan Abramowitz, "the attacks are now much more blatant and out open, at a level not seen since the 1950s and 1960s."

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You can buy into the left's intersectional politics fanning these fading embers if you wish.
I choose not to.

There has never been a more equal opportunity nation in the history of the world than the US at this point in time. If you chose not to believe this, fine. :shrug: