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Another little reminder from 2012 for democrats.

Logical1

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In 2012 Obama said-------------"Im going to work with Congress where I can, but I will act on my own if Congress is deadlocked and wont act". He was commenting about immigration laws.

Just thot you needed to be reminded about how two faced democrats are being now with President Trump.
 
In 2012 Obama said-------------"Im going to work with Congress where I can, but I will act on my own if Congress is deadlocked and wont act". He was commenting about immigration laws.

Just thot you needed to be reminded about how two faced democrats are being now with President Trump.
Hmm. Good point. He did say that. But he never declared an emergency while saying "I don't need to do this", did he?

Trump is doing alot of stuff on immigration that he is legally allowed to do under law. But declaring a fake emergency in order to steal money isn't one of them.
 
Hmm. Good point. He did say that. But he never declared an emergency while saying "I don't need to do this", did he?

Trump is doing alot of stuff on immigration that he is legally allowed to do under law. But declaring a fake emergency in order to steal money isn't one of them.

Then you dont understand the president's emergency powers act.
 
Then you dont understand the president's emergency powers act.

Then you don't understand that the Congress and the courts can slap Donnie Moscow's wittle non-emergency down and there's nothing he can do about it.
 
Then you dont understand the president's emergency powers act.

Fair enough. I'm here to be educated. Show me the part that says that the president can use it for a non-emergency.
 
Yeah, our two parties are hyperpartisan and hypocritical. Nothing new there. But compare apples to apples. You would be on more solid footing comparing their uses of executive orders. The emergency powers act was intended to allow a President to act on short notice. It was never intended to bypass Congress when Congress REFUSES to fund something. And it has never been used that way...until now.
 
Then you don't understand that the Congress and the courts can slap Donnie Moscow's wittle non-emergency down and there's nothing he can do about it.

But AGAIN the Supreme Court will slap them down and tell them he is acting with in the law.
 
Fair enough. I'm here to be educated. Show me the part that says that the president can use it for a non-emergency.

But there is an emergency! Thousand of people are coming at our border with the intention of becoming criminal invaders. They include drug dealers, MS-13, sex traffickers and muslim terrorist!!!! Dont you understand that???????????
 
In 2012 Obama said-------------"Im going to work with Congress where I can, but I will act on my own if Congress is deadlocked and wont act". He was commenting about immigration laws.

Just thot you needed to be reminded about how two faced democrats are being now with President Trump.


Because Obama was a leader and offered leadership.


Trump offers whatever Russia tells him to offer.
 
Fair enough. I'm here to be educated. Show me the part that says that the president can use it for a non-emergency.
Who determines what qualifies as an emergency

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But there is an emergency! Thousand of people are coming at our border with the intention of becoming criminal invaders. They include drug dealers, MS-13, sex traffickers and muslim terrorist!!!! Dont you understand that???????????

That is not an emergency.
 
That is not an emergency.
You do not have the authority to determine that. Trump does. Whether you or anyone else agrees is irrelevant. Congress delegated that authority to his office.

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You do not have the authority to determine that. Trump does. Whether you or anyone else agrees is irrelevant. Congress delegated that authority to his office.

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So then the next president could declare a national emergency based on climate change to put a Green New Deal into effect and bypass congress entirely, correct?
 
So then the next president could declare a national emergency based on climate change to put a Green New Deal into effect and bypass congress entirely, correct?
Yes he can declare a national emergency for anything he determines is one. I dont knoq if that would give him the authority to enact legisalation but if it does yes he could enact the green deal.

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In 2012 Obama said-------------"Im going to work with Congress where I can, but I will act on my own if Congress is deadlocked and wont act". He was commenting about immigration laws.

Just thot you needed to be reminded about how two faced democrats are being now with President Trump.
No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.
-- U.S. Constitution, Article I, section 9, clause 7


Your remarks above illustrate that you either (1) have a profound lack of understanding -- not misunderstanding, lack of understanding -- of appropriations and the "power of the purse" articles of the Constitution, or (2) are an unabashedly inveterate dissembler.
If you look at any executive branch entity that receives Congressionally appropriated funding, you'll find that Congress designates funds for specific programmatic activities a given unit must perform. Obama's remark pertained to policy, undertakings and non-undertakings that required no Congressional appropriation.

What Obama sought to "work with Congress" on was Congressional enshrinement in US Code of treatment modalities -- for example DACA classification and attendant immigration qualifications -- which, frankly, are more policy (specifically one called an "administrative procedure") decisions not laws, though being effected by executive order (EO), they have the force of law without being laws. (All laws are policies, but not all policies are laws.) Congress abjured enacting such provisions, so Obama did so via EO, and, to date, the arbiters of what is and isn't constitutional, the judicial branch, have not deemed Obama's DACA order unconstitutional. Moreover, the Trump Administration, in attempting to reverse the DACA EO, has not complied with the Administrative Procedure Act, which is a law that must be followed in order to effect or undo any procedural change. Specifically, agencies must soundly/cogently demonstrate their actions and policies are not "arbitrary or capricious."

Arbitrariness and caprice notwithstanding, the point is that what "O" did re: immigration called for no appropriated funds, so, Article 1, Congress' "power of the purse," didn't come into play. In contrast, what Trump wants to do re: immigration, build a wall, does require appropriated funds; thus Article I is the superordinate constraint with which Trump must comply.

While "O's" immigration EOs and Trump's desire to build a wall both pertain to immigration, as goes the scope of their implementation requirements are very different. Only jurisprudential myopia, a personal paucity of probity, and/or ignorance moves one to disregard the materially differing nature of those requirements. Yet one or more of those qualities is exactly what you've had the gall to exhibit by your "red" remark.


 
But there is an emergency! Thousand of people are coming at our border with the intention of becoming criminal invaders. They include drug dealers, MS-13, sex traffickers and muslim terrorist!!!! Dont you understand that???????????

That means that the president has had republican control of congress for the last two years and did nothing to stop this emergency. That's basically treason. Are you saying Trump committed treason by allowing these people to freely cross the border? Why didn't he declare an emergency 2 years ago? If this is an emergency and he's been doing nothing for 2 years then the blood is on his hands, wouldn't you agree?
 
Yes he can declare a national emergency for anything he determines is one. I dont knoq if that would give him the authority to enact legisalation but if it does yes he could enact the green deal.

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You seem awfully glib about removing constitutional checks and balances from the President of the United States. I would prefer that the office of the president not seize powers not granted to him by the constitution. What if the president (any president) uses the specter of a fabricated national emergency to "temporarily" suspend the 22nd Amendment limiting his or her term to 4 years? Isn't Putin trying to do something similar? When Congress starts to become an afterthought, how far are we from dictatorship?

Partisan bickering is not a bug, it's a feature. Checks and balances are the cornerstone of our democracy. Blunting them so that the president can unilaterally fulfill a silly campaign promise without Congressional approval is embarrassingly short-sighted on the part of any who approve of this move. The ends do not justify the means, no matter how seductive they may seem to some people.
 
Fair enough. I'm here to be educated. Show me the part that says that the president can use it for a non-emergency.

Are you kidding? We still have NE's in effect from when Carter was president and we were trying to get the hostages back from Iran. The influx of illegal aliens over the border is more of a present threat to the homeland than Iran was in 1979.


Bush's NE concerning Zimbabwe is still in effect from 2003.
Bush's NE concerning Belarus is still in effect from 2006.
Bush's NE concerning the Congo is still in effect from 2006.
Obama's NE concerning the Russian invasion of Ukraine is still in effect from 2014.
Obama's NE concerning conflict in the Central African republic is still in effect from 2014.
Obama's NE concerning the failed coup in Burundi is still in effect from 2015.
Trump declared a NE in 2017 concerning Myanmar.
Trump declared a NE in 2018 concerning Nicaragua.

None of these involve any existential threat to the US.
 
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Are you kidding?

So you're saying that this is an actual emergency? That the US and it's populace is in immediate danger due to this emergency? Or do you think it's an emergency for some other reason?
 
You do not have the authority to determine that. Trump does. Whether you or anyone else agrees is irrelevant. Congress delegated that authority to his office.

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But it's not an emergency. This has been the situation for decades and the problem has been decreasing steadily for decades.

If a president can just make up any emergency to bypass congress then that's very dangerous.
 
Are you kidding? We still have NE's in effect from when Carter was president and we were trying to get the hostages back from Iran. The influx of illegal aliens over the border is more of a present threat to the homeland than Iran was in 1979.


Bush's NE concerning Zimbabwe is still in effect from 2003.
Bush's NE concerning Belarus is still in effect from 2006.
Bush's NE concerning the Congo is still in effect from 2006.
Obama's NE concerning the Russian invasion of Ukraine is still in effect from 2014.
Obama's NE concerning conflict in the Central African republic is still in effect from 2014.
Obama's NE concerning the failed coup in Burundi is still in effect from 2015.
Trump declared a NE in 2017 concerning Myanmar.
Trump declared a NE in 2018 concerning Nicaragua.

None of these involve any existential threat to the US.

And none of those were attempts to bypass Congress. You're proving you care more about your partisanship than about the constitution. I guess in your mind the president can just declare a national emergency and do whatever he wants in the U.S. like a king
 
But it's not an emergency. This has been the situation for decades and the problem has been decreasing steadily for decades.

If a president can just make up any emergency to bypass congress then that's very dangerous.
I disagree that this does not qualify as an emergency but I do agree with you that what congress did is dangerous and it should never of been done.

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