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[W:61]Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

JacksinPA

JacksinPA

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Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive | TheHill

The Trump administration and key GOP lawmakers are playing defense after early data showed Americans are getting smaller tax refunds in the first filing season under the GOP tax law.

The average refund size through Feb. 8 was 8.7 percent smaller than the same period last year, according to IRS figures. Democrats have seized on the numbers, arguing they prove that the 2017 tax-code overhaul by Republicans was a “scam” designed to help the wealthy at the expense of the middle class.
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Besides being a 'reverse Robin hood' rip off to benefit their rich donors, the IRS manipulated the withholding tables to create the illusion that the middle class was getting a tax break when it only equated to smaller refunds.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

JacksinPA said:
Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive | TheHill

The Trump administration and key GOP lawmakers are playing defense after early data showed Americans are getting smaller tax refunds in the first filing season under the GOP tax law.

The average refund size through Feb. 8 was 8.7 percent smaller than the same period last year, according to IRS figures. Democrats have seized on the numbers, arguing they prove that the 2017 tax-code overhaul by Republicans was a “scam” designed to help the wealthy at the expense of the middle class.
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Besides being a 'reverse Robin hood' rip off to benefit their rich donors, the IRS manipulated the withholding tables to create the illusion that the middle class was getting a tax break when it only equated to smaller refunds.
Click to expand...
Now the Trumpsters will - maybe - start to realize that their boy has fooled them.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

GreatNews2night said:
Now the Trumpsters will - maybe - start to realize that their boy has fooled them.
Click to expand...

They touted this as a big tax break for the middle class when actually they had figured out that they could only hold onto power if they rewarded their big megadonors with $$$. It was a scam.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

JacksinPA said:
Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive | TheHill

The Trump administration and key GOP lawmakers are playing defense after early data showed Americans are getting smaller tax refunds in the first filing season under the GOP tax law.

The average refund size through Feb. 8 was 8.7 percent smaller than the same period last year, according to IRS figures. Democrats have seized on the numbers, arguing they prove that the 2017 tax-code overhaul by Republicans was a “scam” designed to help the wealthy at the expense of the middle class.
======================================
Besides being a 'reverse Robin hood' rip off to benefit their rich donors, the IRS manipulated the withholding tables to create the illusion that the middle class was getting a tax break when it only equated to smaller refunds.
Click to expand...

The middle class did get a tax break, it was not an illusion. People are getting smaller returns because they paid in less per pay period, their actual tax liability was lower than before the tax cut. (Excluding some in states with high state taxes)
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

JacksinPA said:
Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive | TheHill

The Trump administration and key GOP lawmakers are playing defense after early data showed Americans are getting smaller tax refunds in the first filing season under the GOP tax law.

The average refund size through Feb. 8 was 8.7 percent smaller than the same period last year, according to IRS figures. Democrats have seized on the numbers, arguing they prove that the 2017 tax-code overhaul by Republicans was a “scam” designed to help the wealthy at the expense of the middle class.
======================================
Besides being a 'reverse Robin hood' rip off to benefit their rich donors, the IRS manipulated the withholding tables to create the illusion that the middle class was getting a tax break when it only equated to smaller refunds.
Click to expand...

This as I understand it is the Republicans own fault. The IRS was instructed to without less in the hope folks would see a bit fatter pay check at the end of the week and be happy enough to vote GOP in the midterms. If true, the refund crisis will hurt them and if the IRS goes back to normal with holding that may hurt them even more as folks will see paychecks with less take home pay.

Catch 22 I say.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

Nap said:
The middle class did get a tax break, it was not an illusion. People are getting smaller returns because they paid in less per pay period, their actual tax liability was lower than before the tax cut. (Excluding some in states with high state taxes)
Click to expand...

No matter how many times we say this, not matter the proof offered, the LEFT (and anyone else who didn't pay attention) are going to cry "rip-off" as opposed to recognizing that most citizens got a tax cut, the IRS also lowered the amounts they withheld each pay check, and people had more money in each pay-check.

The also got double the prior single and marital standard deduction, while all personal deductions were eliminated. Yep, they no longer get all those deductions, but all but one class got a tax cut.

Captain Adverse said:
Ummm, no.

Trump's Tax Plan: How It Affects You.

It cut taxes for almost every tax bracket except those who are at the very lowest income (remains 0% - 10%) and those at the second highest income (becomes 35%), while increasing the standard deduction.

This was in addition to the IRS reducing withholding allowing for more money in the paycheck and a commensurate lower amount withheld that you can get repaid from.

The problem is that it eliminated personal exemptions people depended on to get more back rather than paying 100% of their share of the tax burden.

Remember, your tax return is money you "lent" the Federal government to make sure you had enough to cover your tax burden.
Click to expand...
 
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Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

JacksinPA said:
Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive | TheHill

The Trump administration and key GOP lawmakers are playing defense after early data showed Americans are getting smaller tax refunds in the first filing season under the GOP tax law.

The average refund size through Feb. 8 was 8.7 percent smaller than the same period last year, according to IRS figures. Democrats have seized on the numbers, arguing they prove that the 2017 tax-code overhaul by Republicans was a “scam” designed to help the wealthy at the expense of the middle class.
======================================
Besides being a 'reverse Robin hood' rip off to benefit their rich donors, the IRS manipulated the withholding tables to create the illusion that the middle class was getting a tax break when it only equated to smaller refunds.
Click to expand...

This "smaller tax refund" thing is one of the most stupid non-issues to come around in a LONG time. The only people it upsets are those who don't know why it's stupid and meaningless.

Let me spell this out for you:

Lower tax rates = less withheld from your paycheck.

Less withheld from your paycheck = the less of your money the government is holding throughout the year.

The less of your money the government is holding throughout the year = smaller refund.

Do you actually WANT the government keeping money that's rightfully yours from you for the entire year?

Or do you think that your tax refund is a bonus gift you get from the government, instead of money taken out of your paycheck and kept from you by the government until you figure out they shouldn't have it? Hint: the reality is the latter.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

Anyone that isnt smart enough to understand that if they get more back in their paycheck during the year then their refund will by necessity be smaller PROBABLY is filing the EZ.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

JacksinPA said:
Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive | TheHill

The Trump administration and key GOP lawmakers are playing defense after early data showed Americans are getting smaller tax refunds in the first filing season under the GOP tax law.

The average refund size through Feb. 8 was 8.7 percent smaller than the same period last year, according to IRS figures. Democrats have seized on the numbers, arguing they prove that the 2017 tax-code overhaul by Republicans was a “scam” designed to help the wealthy at the expense of the middle class.
======================================
Besides being a 'reverse Robin hood' rip off to benefit their rich donors, the IRS manipulated the withholding tables to create the illusion that the middle class was getting a tax break when it only equated to smaller refunds.
Click to expand...
Didn't we just discuss this a few days ago? Refunds were smaller because the taxpayer had a lower tax bill and less was withheld from his paychecks.


I've seen that explained by IRS spokes people several times.


From you link:

Republicans have pushed back, emphasizing that most people are seeing a reduction in their total tax liability and that smaller refunds are preferable because they mean taxpayers were paying a more accurate amount throughout the year via their paychecks.
“Critics of the tax cuts are squealing that lower refunds means that taxpayers are paying more in taxes. That argument is pure hogwash,” Senate Finance Committee Chairman Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) said in a statement Friday, as part of a Q&A document published by his office.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

GreatNews2night said:
Now the Trumpsters will - maybe - start to realize that their boy has fooled them.
Click to expand...
Most Trumpsters are smart enough to know this is a big nothingburger: Refunds are smaller because less was withheld throughout the years since taxpayers tax bill would be less.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

JacksinPA said:
They touted this as a big tax break for the middle class when actually they had figured out that they could only hold onto power if they rewarded their big megadonors with $$$. It was a scam.
Click to expand...
Nonsense, as I've already covered.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

Perotista said:
This as I understand it is the Republicans own fault. The IRS was instructed to without less in the hope folks would see a bit fatter pay check at the end of the week and be happy enough to vote GOP in the midterms. If true, the refund crisis will hurt them and if the IRS goes back to normal with holding that may hurt them even more as folks will see paychecks with less take home pay.

Catch 22 I say.
Click to expand...
No fault involved. No deep dark plots. The IRS withheld less because the taxpayers tax bill was projected to be less. If an employee wants a bigger refund all he has to do is see his payroll person to adjust his exemptions on his W-4.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

JacksinPA said:
Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive | TheHill

The Trump administration and key GOP lawmakers are playing defense after early data showed Americans are getting smaller tax refunds in the first filing season under the GOP tax law.

The average refund size through Feb. 8 was 8.7 percent smaller than the same period last year, according to IRS figures. Democrats have seized on the numbers, arguing they prove that the 2017 tax-code overhaul by Republicans was a “scam” designed to help the wealthy at the expense of the middle class.
======================================
Besides being a 'reverse Robin hood' rip off to benefit their rich donors, the IRS manipulated the withholding tables to create the illusion that the middle class was getting a tax break when it only equated to smaller refunds.
Click to expand...

Smaller refunds is a good thing.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

We’ll see how many of the 22 GOP Senators are held accountable for this reconciliation vote next year. Too bad the GOP didn’t add the wall funding to this windfall tax scam when they had the chance.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive
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this has potential to be less than good for the Trumpist party. even though it might not make great fiscal sense, people count on those refunds like a windfall.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

Linc said:
We’ll see how many of the 22 GOP Senators are held accountable for this reconciliation vote next year. Too bad the GOP didn’t add the wall funding to this windfall tax scam when they had the chance.
Click to expand...

Blatant ploys are blatant but not at first (to rubes). Hence Brexit, over the pond.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

Helix said:
this has potential to be less than good for the Trumpist party. even though it might not make great fiscal sense, people count on those refunds like a windfall.
Click to expand...

Which, I might add, is not all that bright. If one is getting a big refund, one is lending the government money for no good reason. Best to look at your refund, calculate the change in withholdings necessary to bring it down to, say, neutral (I prefer to owe a few hundred to the feds at tax time), and then readjust if certain things change.

But whatever. If people who voted for Trump get pissed at their refunds (or better, money owed) that's great for all of us. Maybe they'll pay a little attention next time around.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

JacksinPA said:
Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive | TheHill

The Trump administration and key GOP lawmakers are playing defense after early data showed Americans are getting smaller tax refunds in the first filing season under the GOP tax law.

The average refund size through Feb. 8 was 8.7 percent smaller than the same period last year, according to IRS figures. Democrats have seized on the numbers, arguing they prove that the 2017 tax-code overhaul by Republicans was a “scam” designed to help the wealthy at the expense of the middle class.
======================================
Besides being a 'reverse Robin hood' rip off to benefit their rich donors, the IRS manipulated the withholding tables to create the illusion that the middle class was getting a tax break when it only equated to smaller refunds.
Click to expand...

No kidding, but people still bear plenty of responsibility. My wife and I can't be the only people who ran the numbers, determined what the change would be if other things were held roughly constant, and adjusted


One problem is that employers didn't bother to do much work. I'm self-employed so I do what the accountant says (after checking, if I feel like it), but the wife works for a company. They'd reduced their withholdings way too much in light of the tax package, so we had to up them. Still got a tax cut, yes. But if we were both working for an employer and didn't check, we'd have gotten slammed. But we worked out some numbers, talked it out with the accountant, then made our decision about changing her withholdings so that we were sharing the burden. (We don't pool all money in an account, but rather share common expenses while keeping discretionary spending to ourselves; it'd be bad to be looking over each other's shoulders on the financial front all the time when we don't have some kind of financial problem going on).
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

Mr Person said:
Which, I might add, is not all that bright. If one is getting a big refund, one is lending the government money for no good reason. Best to look at your refund, calculate the change in withholdings necessary to bring it down to, say, neutral (I prefer to owe a few hundred to the feds at tax time), and then readjust if certain things change.

But whatever. If people who voted for Trump get pissed at their refunds (or better, money owed) that's great for all of us. Maybe they'll pay a little attention next time around.
Click to expand...

whether it's fiscally responsible or not, it's a thing, and some people are going to be pissed if their refund goes down significantly. it's an opportunity for the Democrats, though they seem to have limited success at seizing opportunities.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

GreatNews2night said:
Now the Trumpsters will - maybe - start to realize that their boy has fooled them.
Click to expand...

The term would be conned them

They were so proud of him being a con artist, they.never realized that they were part of the con...
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

Bullseye said:
Most Trumpsters are smart enough to know this is a big nothingburger: Refunds are smaller because less was withheld throughout the years since taxpayers tax bill would be less.
Click to expand...

I hope for your sake that you are aware that the cuts for the middle class will expire, but the elimination of deductions will not.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

Mr Person said:
Blatant ploys are blatant but not at first (to rubes). Hence Brexit, over the pond.
Click to expand...

McConnell shielded his Senators from the ‘wall’ vote, playing his ‘long game’ through the next three elections ending in 2022, leaving Ryan as the fall guy. GOP Senators will still pay for their health care vote by reconciliation, though it failed, but the 2020 map will be tough.

On your Brexit remark, Bannon is still smiling at the deconstruction of the EU and NATO, as well as the deconstruction of our intelligence agencies. Democrats better learn how to defend from the GOP Atwater boogieman routine, as we now see with the fake war on ‘socialism’.
 
Re: Smaller tax refunds put GOP on defensive

Helix said:
whether it's fiscally responsible or not, it's a thing, and some people are going to be pissed if their refund goes down significantly. it's an opportunity for the Democrats, though they seem to have limited success at seizing opportunities.
Click to expand...

Unless it's the opportunity to score an own goal...



I don't know what's going on with the party, but they seem to have seriously lost their way.
 
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