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FL student faces misdemeanor charges after refusing to stand for Pledge of Allegiance

RaleBulgarian

RaleBulgarian

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An 11-year-old student in Florida refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance and was arrested for a resulting confrontation with a teacher and police officer.

The boy was arrested for causing a disruption and refusing repeated instructions from school staff and law enforcement, Polk County Public Schools spokesperson Kyle Kennedy said in a statement. He was not arrested for refusing to participate in the pledge — even though students have the right to do so by Florida law and district policy.

The sixth grader from a Tampa suburb allegedly told his substitute teacher the flag is "racist" and the national anthem is offensive to black people, Bay News 9 reported citing a statement the teacher gave the district.

In response, the teacher said she asked the student why not go to another place to live if it was "so bad here." She said he answered, "They brought me here."

The substitute, identified by district officials as Ana Alvarez, said, "Well, you can always go back, because I came here from Cuba and the day I feel I'm not welcome here anymore I would find another place to live."

Alvarez said she called the office on Feb. 4 because she did not want to keep "dealing with him," according to her statement. She no longer works as a substitute in the district, Kennedy said, and did not know students weren't required to participate in the Pledge of Allegiance. The district will also review training for substitutes, Kennedy said.

Officers would not arrest a student for not standing during the Pledge of Allegiance, Gross said, but, in general, would arrest a student for screaming, yelling and making threats.

Dhakira Talbot, the boy’s mother, told Bay News 9 that she wants the charges dropped. She denied the arrest affidavit accusing her son of threatening to beat the teacher, the station reported.

“She was wrong. She was way out of place,” Talbot told Bay News 9. “If she felt like there was an issue with my son not standing for the flag, she should’ve resolved that in a way different manner than she did.”

First Amendment rights prevent schools from requiring students to recite the pledge or salute the flag, the Supreme Court ruled in 1943.
Florida student, 11, arrested after refusing Pledge of Allegiance

Another case of compulsory patriotism gone wrong. Had the substitute teacher respected the kid’s Constitutional right, none of the trouble that followed would have happened. Strange times we’re living in.
 
RaleBulgarian said:
An 11-year-old student in Florida refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance and was arrested for a resulting confrontation with a teacher and police officer.

The boy was arrested for causing a disruption and refusing repeated instructions from school staff and law enforcement, Polk County Public Schools spokesperson Kyle Kennedy said in a statement. He was not arrested for refusing to participate in the pledge — even though students have the right to do so by Florida law and district policy.

The sixth grader from a Tampa suburb allegedly told his substitute teacher the flag is "racist" and the national anthem is offensive to black people, Bay News 9 reported citing a statement the teacher gave the district.

In response, the teacher said she asked the student why not go to another place to live if it was "so bad here." She said he answered, "They brought me here."

The substitute, identified by district officials as Ana Alvarez, said, "Well, you can always go back, because I came here from Cuba and the day I feel I'm not welcome here anymore I would find another place to live."

Alvarez said she called the office on Feb. 4 because she did not want to keep "dealing with him," according to her statement. She no longer works as a substitute in the district, Kennedy said, and did not know students weren't required to participate in the Pledge of Allegiance. The district will also review training for substitutes, Kennedy said.

Officers would not arrest a student for not standing during the Pledge of Allegiance, Gross said, but, in general, would arrest a student for screaming, yelling and making threats.

Dhakira Talbot, the boy’s mother, told Bay News 9 that she wants the charges dropped. She denied the arrest affidavit accusing her son of threatening to beat the teacher, the station reported.

“She was wrong. She was way out of place,” Talbot told Bay News 9. “If she felt like there was an issue with my son not standing for the flag, she should’ve resolved that in a way different manner than she did.”

First Amendment rights prevent schools from requiring students to recite the pledge or salute the flag, the Supreme Court ruled in 1943.
Florida student, 11, arrested after refusing Pledge of Allegiance

Another case of compulsory patriotism gone wrong. Had the substitute teacher respected the kid’s Constitutional right, none of the trouble that followed would have happened. Strange times we’re living in.
Click to expand...

While your last statement is spot on, I must admit I have an issue with what might be the upbringing of this child.

At 11, its quite unlikely that he decided that the phrase, "They brought me here." was an appropriate response, since unless the "they" he was speaking of were his parents, it wouldn't be applicable to him in any way, shape or form. That kind of **** is learned, and not likely in school.

That said, ignorance begets ignorance.
 
I've always resented that kind of coerced speech: now, stand and say these words or else you aren't patriotic! That's true whether it's national anthem, the pledge, or anything else involving our symbol worship and anything where loyalty is judged based on whether you said some prescribed words fervently enough.

It's utter bull****. What matters is what you do when the chips are down. It's the country that matters, not a damn piece of cloth.

At any rate, no teacher has any business commanding a student to stand for the pledge and recite the necessaries, regardless of his or her reason.






And even then, I've always been astounded by how absurdly we Americans tend to run around with this national ego, aka, "American exceptionslism." More self-serving bull****. Sure, it's a better place to live than most, though I could be happy in any number of countries I've visited. But being born here doesn't make us any better than anyone else. The country is only as good as it sticks to its principles, and I've spent my entire life watching us piss away one principle after another.

And all this talk of our supposedly great "freedoms"? Go be a public defender and get back to me after a few years. Then you might just form some different notions about who gets to enjoy "freedoms" and who does not. Go talk to some people who were arrested on false drug charges after the field test resulted in a false positive or the officer lied about it. Go talk to them after they'd plead guilty just so that they can get out, save their home, save their job (well, probably not that), since otherwise they'd be locked up for months and months, only to find themselves homeless and without possessions even if acquitted).

Just one of many examples. People with money who do not interact with people who do not have money do not appear to understand just how much money correlates with enjoyment of "freedoms." They don't want to understand.





We're not nearly as great as we tell ourselves, and that is likely why we so extravagantly tell ourselves about how great we are.
 
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Were there any witnesses to the incident. Was the kid.being disruptive?

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bullseyelqcs said:
While your last statement is spot on, I must admit I have an issue with what might be the upbringing of this child.

At 11, its quite unlikely that he decided that the phrase, "They brought me here." was an appropriate response, since unless the "they" he was speaking of were his parents, it wouldn't be applicable to him in any way, shape or form. That kind of **** is learned, and not likely in school.

That said, ignorance begets ignorance.
Click to expand...
I agree with your take on how the boy is being influenced. Intolerance and prejudism aren’t genetic, but are still mostly passed on from generation to generation.
 
trouble13 said:
Were there any witnesses to the incident. Was the kid.being disruptive?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You mean by just sitting there? Not likely.

Everything that happened after that point was on the teacher.
 
Where does the constitution demand blind obedience? The kid's parents have raised him to question the status quo, challenge authority and possibly highlight discrimination. Maybe if America truly was equal for all, then everyone would be comfortable pledging allegiance.
 
The boy was arrested for causing a disruption and refusing repeated instructions from school staff and law enforcement, Polk County Public Schools spokesperson Kyle Kennedy said in a statement. He was not arrested for refusing to participate in the pledge — even though students have the right to do so by Florida law and district policy.
 
During my grades of 1 - 4, I was to pledge to the flag was a silly idea as a adult. It does not or did not make me a better American citizen. Calling the police, is a stupid idea because nobody in the classroom is getting a education.
 
trouble13 said:
How do you know that?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You mean besides the teacher not saying as much?

Reading the story makes things pretty evident. Even when she called the office, she didn't say he was disruptive prior to the request for him to stand.

That's where I got my info.
 
More than 70 years ago when I was in school, we all stood while some recited the pledge and then a volunteer or the teacher, if no one volunteered, would read a bible verse. All that was required was for us each to stand. Although I have no religious beliefs, I also bow my head and keep quiet, while a prayer is offered at a funeral. It's simply a show of respect for a right to believe while imposing nothing more upon me. It's no wonder we are becoming more divided against one another, when it is being initiated in acts of our youngest.
 
Individual said:
More than 70 years ago when I was in school, we all stood while some recited the pledge and then a volunteer or the teacher, if no one volunteered, would read a bible verse. All that was required was for us each to stand. Although I have no religious beliefs, I also bow my head and keep quiet, while a prayer is offered at a funeral. It's simply a show of respect for a right to believe while imposing nothing more upon me. It's no wonder we are becoming more divided against one another, when it is being initiated in acts of our youngest.
Click to expand...

To be fair, if she had just let him sit there, this wouldn't have been an issue. Would have been no different than you remaining quiet as a prayer is offered at a funeral.
 
bullseyelqcs said:
To be fair, if she had just let him sit there, this wouldn't have been an issue. Would have been no different than you remaining quiet as a prayer is offered at a funeral.
Click to expand...

Or asked him to leave the room until done. To remain sitting, in my opinion, would be disrespectful.
 
This poor kid was hit from every direction and I'm glad this makes the news. This is sick. The kid was obviously told by his parents that the flag and pledge are evil. Okay. That sucks, but it's their right. The kid took it to school, like most young children do with their teachings at home. Nothing wrong with that.

The kid thought he was doing the right thing by protesting in a free country with completely harmless behavior and simply sitting out something he believed to be wrong. First amendment says he had every right. Common sense says let him do it and move on with the education of him and all the other students in the class.

Then, despite being taught he lives in a free country and that harmless protest is a part of our culture, the person in authority over him and responsible for teaching him, called authorities on him. He didn't know how to react and chose to stand by his principles. Good and brave kid!

Sure, he acted out of line during the interactions, but he had no idea what to do! He's 11!

This is just stupid. I don't care what the charges are or what comes out of it. The kid did what that very pledge is there to protect. He did a non-violent protest and exercised his freedoms.

At 11 years old, you better be able to show me a victim and some extreme behavior. If you can't, you better be ready to show a very public apology and probably be ready to resign your position.
 
Mr Person said:
It's the country that matters, not a damn piece of cloth.
Click to expand...

What is the country, in your opinion, Mr Person? And if there is nothing worth encouraging pride in, or respect towards, why should anyone care about the country itself? Why should any of us be mad that Donald Trump is apparently selling our country's interests out to the Russians when our country is no better than Russia and there is indeed nothing that makes it exceptional? Who cares if China overtakes us and becomes the new global hegemon?

If, as you seem to suggest, we are a land of vainglorious lies, broken promises masking tyrannical hierarchies and false freedom that can only be accessed by the most wealthy and racially advantaged, why look at the flag with any ounce of pride? Why teach your children about being respectful at all? Shouldn't we be teaching our children to take as much as they can get while they can and get off the sinking ship when they have a chance?
 
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Individual said:
Or asked him to leave the room until done. To remain sitting, in my opinion, would be disrespectful.
Click to expand...
According to the article she did ask him to leave the room and he refused and threatened to beat her. That is what got him in trouble.

Its a case of his word against theirs unless there is witnesses to corroborate what happened. This is a big reason i think every classroom should have both video and audio surveillance.

A good old fashioned spanking would settle the issue of if the kid would perfer to sit or stand.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
RaleBulgarian said:
An 11-year-old student in Florida refused to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance and was arrested for a resulting confrontation with a teacher and police officer.

The boy was arrested for causing a disruption and refusing repeated instructions from school staff and law enforcement, Polk County Public Schools spokesperson Kyle Kennedy said in a statement. He was not arrested for refusing to participate in the pledge — even though students have the right to do so by Florida law and district policy.

The sixth grader from a Tampa suburb allegedly told his substitute teacher the flag is "racist" and the national anthem is offensive to black people, Bay News 9 reported citing a statement the teacher gave the district.

In response, the teacher said she asked the student why not go to another place to live if it was "so bad here." She said he answered, "They brought me here."

The substitute, identified by district officials as Ana Alvarez, said, "Well, you can always go back, because I came here from Cuba and the day I feel I'm not welcome here anymore I would find another place to live."

Alvarez said she called the office on Feb. 4 because she did not want to keep "dealing with him," according to her statement. She no longer works as a substitute in the district, Kennedy said, and did not know students weren't required to participate in the Pledge of Allegiance. The district will also review training for substitutes, Kennedy said.

Officers would not arrest a student for not standing during the Pledge of Allegiance, Gross said, but, in general, would arrest a student for screaming, yelling and making threats.

Dhakira Talbot, the boy’s mother, told Bay News 9 that she wants the charges dropped. She denied the arrest affidavit accusing her son of threatening to beat the teacher, the station reported.

“She was wrong. She was way out of place,” Talbot told Bay News 9. “If she felt like there was an issue with my son not standing for the flag, she should’ve resolved that in a way different manner than she did.”

First Amendment rights prevent schools from requiring students to recite the pledge or salute the flag, the Supreme Court ruled in 1943.
Florida student, 11, arrested after refusing Pledge of Allegiance

Another case of compulsory patriotism gone wrong. Had the substitute teacher respected the kid’s Constitutional right, none of the trouble that followed would have happened. Strange times we’re living in.
Click to expand...


I think it's ridiculous that something like this went so far, but the kid was not arrested for refusing to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance, as the headlines suggest. The media sucks.
 
trouble13 said:
According to the article she did ask him to leave the room and he refused and threatened to beat her. That is what got him in trouble.

Its a case of his word against theirs unless there is witnesses to corroborate what happened. This is a big reason i think every classroom should have both video and audio surveillance.

A good old fashioned spanking would settle the issue of if the kid would perfer to sit or stand.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I didn't think the police would have arrested him for refusing to stand. So there was more to the story than just that.
 
I have always thought doing the Pledge on a daily basis seems a little on the totalitarianism side..

It strikes me as patriotism through peer pressure.
 
Individual said:
I didn't think the police would have arrested him for refusing to stand. So there was more to the story than just that.
Click to expand...
Thats why i initially asked if there were any witnesses. It really depends on the cop if they would of arrested the kid or not. I happen to live in the Tampa area but not polk county. Polk county police are always on the news spouting zero tolerance type stuff. The sheriff is a real piece of work. I can see a cop trying a scared straight approah on the kid if he was acting too big for his britches.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
Mr Person said:
I've always resented that kind of coerced speech: now, stand and say these words or else you aren't patriotic! That's true whether it's national anthem, the pledge, or anything else involving our symbol worship and anything where loyalty is judged based on whether you said some prescribed words fervently enough.

It's utter bull****. What matters is what you do when the chips are down. It's the country that matters, not a damn piece of cloth.

At any rate, no teacher has any business commanding a student to stand for the pledge and recite the necessaries, regardless of his or her reason.






And even then, I've always been astounded by how absurdly we Americans tend to run around with this national ego, aka, "American exceptionslism." More self-serving bull****. Sure, it's a better place to live than most, though I could be happy in any number of countries I've visited. But being born here doesn't make us any better than anyone else. The country is only as good as it sticks to its principles, and I've spent my entire life watching us piss away one principle after another.

And all this talk of our supposedly great "freedoms"? Go be a public defender and get back to me after a few years. Then you might just form some different notions about who gets to enjoy "freedoms" and who does not. Go talk to some people who were arrested on false drug charges after the field test resulted in a false positive or the officer lied about it. Go talk to them after they'd plead guilty just so that they can get out, save their home, save their job (well, probably not that), since otherwise they'd be locked up for months and months, only to find themselves homeless and without possessions even if acquitted).

Just one of many examples. People with money who do not interact with people who do not have money do not appear to understand just how much money correlates with enjoyment of "freedoms." They don't want to understand.





We're not nearly as great as we tell ourselves, and that is likely why we so extravagantly tell ourselves about how great we are.
Click to expand...

Felis Leo said:
What is the country, in your opinion, Mr Person? And if there is nothing worth encouraging pride in, or respect towards, why should anyone care about the country itself? Why should any of us be mad that Donald Trump is apparently selling our country's interests out to the Russians when our country is no better than Russia and there is indeed nothing that makes it exceptional? Who cares if China overtakes us and becomes the new global hegemon?

If, as you seem to suggest, we are a land of vainglorious lies, broken promises masking tyrannical hierarchies and false freedom that can only be accessed by the most wealthy and racially advantaged, why look at the flag with any ounce of pride? Why teach your children about being respectful at all? Shouldn't we be teaching our children to take as much as they can get while they can and get off the sinking ship when they have a chance?
Click to expand...

I do not think that rigid encouragement of symbol worship has anything to do with teaching children to be "respectful." Rigid symbol worship is mainly used as a cudgel, to wrongly denigrate those who didn't do precisely as those encouraging said worship demanded.

There's a whole lot wrong with the country, though there is also a whole lot that is well. But saluting the flag or lack thereof or even burning it isn't the problem.
 
Felis Leo said:
What is the country, in your opinion, Mr Person? And if there is nothing worth encouraging pride in, or respect towards, why should anyone care about the country itself?
Click to expand...

What makes America special is freedom. And forcing people to stand for the anthem is the opposite of freedom. Why do you hate freedom?

Of course people shouldn't be free to do anything. One of the basic tests is "Does it hurt anyone?" Not standing for the anthem doesn't hurt anyone or deprive anyone of their freedom so it should be allowed in a free society.
 
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