The Big Question is about Democracy

The big question that has been asked for the past 6 years is about the state of our Democracy and what it means to each of us:

What’s the worst thing to happen to US democracy recently? Most answers to that question start and end with Donald Trump. Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt, two Harvard political scientists, though as horrified by Trump as anyone, try to take a wider view. For them the great harbinger of disaster happened during the final year of the Obama presidency. Following the sudden death of the conservative supreme court justice Antonin Scalia in early 2016, President Obama nominated Merrick Garland, a centrist liberal, to replace him. It was up to the Senate to decide whether to confirm the president’s choice. But the Senate did something it had never done in more than 150 years: it refused even to grant Garland a hearing. This was not about Trump – most Republican senators were at this point deeply alarmed by, if not downright hostile to, the prospect of the Donald in the White House. Instead, it was about their shared view that any Republican supreme court nominee would be better than any Democratic nominee, and any price was worth paying to achieve that. It was scorched earth politics.

Click to expand...

This was further exacerbated when Trump took office

It is certainly evident that Trump does not represent Democracy. He has worked hard at erasing the checks and balances that our forefathers thought were essential in a Democracy, which is to have 3 separate sections of Government (Executive, Judicial, and Legislative) that are there are to make sure no one person or entity can take over our government. Trump has worked hard to have them all under his control, either by putting in someone that favors him or his beliefs as the head of those departments, putting judges in the Judicial system that are indebted to him, or by threatening actions (such as a government shut down) or loss of election support from the Republican base.

It all boils down to one person attempting to become an autocrat and destroy our Democracy that our forefathers put together.

The big question for every one us "Americans" needs to answer is whether the economic benefits that Trump brings to the table are good enough to throw away the successful and envied Democratic process we have had in existence for 240 years or whether we stand up for what we have represented for all of this time and fight back, no matter the consequences to our economy?

Make no mistake about it, this is what is at stake.

Let me know what you think.

Luckyone said:

The big question that has been asked for the past 6 years is about the state of our Democracy and what it means to each of us:



This was further exacerbated when Trump took office

It is certainly evident that Trump does not represent Democracy. He has worked hard at erasing the checks and balances that our forefathers thought were essential in a Democracy, which is to have 3 separate sections of Government (Executive, Judicial, and Legislative) that are there are to make sure no one person or entity can take over our government. Trump has worked hard to have them all under his control, either by putting in someone that favors him or his beliefs as the head of those departments, putting judges in the Judicial system that are indebted to him, or by threatening actions (such as a government shut down) or loss of election support from the Republican base.

It all boils down to one person attempting to become an autocrat and destroy our Democracy that our forefathers put together.

The big question for every one us "Americans" needs to answer is whether the economic benefits that Trump brings to the table are good enough to throw away the successful and envied Democratic process we have had in existence for 240 years or whether we stand up for what we have represented for all of this time and fight back, no matter the consequences to our economy?

Make no mistake about it, this is what is at stake.

Let me know what you think.

Click to expand...

The "Democratic process" you are lamenting boils down to the tendency of political elites from both parties to work for their deep pocket donors instead of the people who put them in office. Trump's actions in Office is a threat to that process.

And, to answer your question, yes. The economic benefits of a Trump Presidency...along with combating the effects of the Congressional elites and their donors is a very good thing.

Luckyone said:

The big question that has been asked for the past 6 years is about the state of our Democracy and what it means to each of us:



This was further exacerbated when Trump took office

It is certainly evident that Trump does not represent Democracy. He has worked hard at erasing the checks and balances that our forefathers thought were essential in a Democracy, which is to have 3 separate sections of Government (Executive, Judicial, and Legislative) that are there are to make sure no one person or entity can take over our government. Trump has worked hard to have them all under his control, either by putting in someone that favors him or his beliefs as the head of those departments, putting judges in the Judicial system that are indebted to him, or by threatening actions (such as a government shut down) or loss of election support from the Republican base.

It all boils down to one person attempting to become an autocrat and destroy our Democracy that our forefathers put together.

The big question for every one us "Americans" needs to answer is whether the economic benefits that Trump brings to the table are good enough to throw away the successful and envied Democratic process we have had in existence for 240 years or whether we stand up for what we have represented for all of this time and fight back, no matter the consequences to our economy?

Make no mistake about it, this is what is at stake.

Let me know what you think.

Click to expand...

What Democratic process has Trump thrown away? Name and date... lay it out.

trixare4kids said:

What Democratic process has Trump thrown away? Name and date... lay it out.

Click to expand...

Lets start with today's emergency declaration.

This is not an emergency and he is trying to circumvent Congress by declaring it an emergency. Simply stated, he is trying to get his will done even though the votes are not there to get it done through congress.

this is just one of many things, like putting Whitaker in charge of the Justice Department.

Luckyone said:

The big question that has been asked for the past 6 years is about the state of our Democracy and what it means to each of us:



This was further exacerbated when Trump took office

It is certainly evident that Trump does not represent Democracy. He has worked hard at erasing the checks and balances that our forefathers thought were essential in a Democracy, which is to have 3 separate sections of Government (Executive, Judicial, and Legislative) that are there are to make sure no one person or entity can take over our government. Trump has worked hard to have them all under his control, either by putting in someone that favors him or his beliefs as the head of those departments, putting judges in the Judicial system that are indebted to him, or by threatening actions (such as a government shut down) or loss of election support from the Republican base.

It all boils down to one person attempting to become an autocrat and destroy our Democracy that our forefathers put together.

The big question for every one us "Americans" needs to answer is whether the economic benefits that Trump brings to the table are good enough to throw away the successful and envied Democratic process we have had in existence for 240 years or whether we stand up for what we have represented for all of this time and fight back, no matter the consequences to our economy?

Make no mistake about it, this is what is at stake.

Let me know what you think.

Click to expand...

Right-wing crank Ann Coulter has fired back at Trump after the president slighted her during his Rose Garden speech this morning.

“Forget the fact that he’s digging his own grave,” Coulter told LA-based radio station KABC. She was talking about Trump signing the congressional bill to end the government shutdown.

“The only national emergency is that our president is an idiot,” she continued.

Luckyone said:

The big question that has been asked for the past 6 years is about the state of our Democracy and what it means to each of us:



This was further exacerbated when Trump took office

It is certainly evident that Trump does not represent Democracy. He has worked hard at erasing the checks and balances that our forefathers thought were essential in a Democracy, which is to have 3 separate sections of Government (Executive, Judicial, and Legislative) that are there are to make sure no one person or entity can take over our government. Trump has worked hard to have them all under his control, either by putting in someone that favors him or his beliefs as the head of those departments, putting judges in the Judicial system that are indebted to him, or by threatening actions (such as a government shut down) or loss of election support from the Republican base.

It all boils down to one person attempting to become an autocrat and destroy our Democracy that our forefathers put together.

The big question for every one us "Americans" needs to answer is whether the economic benefits that Trump brings to the table are good enough to throw away the successful and envied Democratic process we have had in existence for 240 years or whether we stand up for what we have represented for all of this time and fight back, no matter the consequences to our economy?

Make no mistake about it, this is what is at stake.

Let me know what you think.

Click to expand...

And Schumer called for NO HEARINGS FOR ANY GW BUSH nominees, in Jan., 2007.

And? "Elections have consequences".


The OP claims are just more DOUBLE STANDARD/HYPOCRISY from the DUPLICITOUS LEFT...

Identity politics, ramped up by Obama.
Then prior to that the 1970's liberals going all in on hyphenating country of origin. "Chinese" America means to me that you are not quite willing to be an American.

Today, it's voter fraud or at least he feeling my too many that there is a lot of voter fraud and no one is investigating.

Lastly "Big data". Those connected can peer into your life like never before, and are answerable to no one, and you will never know why your insurance company dropped you, or raised your rates, or why you didn't get that job at Boeing. Social credit scoring in not just limited to China. It's not called that. It's called a risk profile.

Suppose you got the Kavenaugh treatment, but with no publicity? What can you do? Nothing.

Luckyone said:

The big question that has been asked for the past 6 years is about the state of our Democracy and what it means to each of us:

Click to expand...

The USA is not a Democracy. It is a Federated Republic.

A Democracy is mob rule (rule of men). A Republic is constitutional rule (rule of law). Federated means that there are several layers of republics.

Luckyone said:

This was further exacerbated when Trump took office

Click to expand...

Trump hasn't done anything to overstep the US Constitution. He is well aware that the US Constitution is the ruling document of the USA.

Luckyone said:

It is certainly evident that Trump does not represent Democracy.

Click to expand...

Correct. He represents a Federated Republic, which is what the USA actually is...

Luckyone said:

He has worked hard at erasing the checks and balances that our forefathers thought were essential in a Democracy,

Click to expand...

What checks and balances has he erased? Our forefathers did not create a Democracy; they created a Federated Republic.

Luckyone said:

which is to have 3 separate sections of Government (Executive, Judicial, and Legislative) that are there are to make sure no one person or entity can take over our government.

Click to expand...

Okay.

Luckyone said:

Trump has worked hard to have them all under his control,

Click to expand...

No, he hasn't.

Luckyone said:

either by putting in someone that favors him or his beliefs as the head of those departments,

Click to expand...

Of course he's going to; he wants things to run as smoothly as possible... He has every constitutional power to do so...

Luckyone said:

putting judges in the Judicial system that are indebted to him,

Click to expand...

No judicial member is indebted to him in any way...

Luckyone said:

or by threatening actions (such as a government shut down)

Click to expand...

He has every constitutional power to do so.

Luckyone said:

or loss of election support from the Republican base.

Click to expand...

His base supports him just fine.

Luckyone said:

It all boils down to one person attempting to become an autocrat and destroy our Democracy that our forefathers put together.

Click to expand...

He is following the Constitution quite well, and our forefathers did not form a Democracy; they formed a Federated Republic.

Luckyone said:

The big question for every one us "Americans" needs to answer is whether the economic benefits that Trump brings to the table are good enough to throw away the successful and envied Democratic process we have had in existence for 240 years

Click to expand...

No democratic process is being thrown away; Trump is abiding by the US Constitution...

Luckyone said:

or whether we stand up for what we have represented for all of this time and fight back, no matter the consequences to our economy?

Click to expand...

False Dichotomy due to a complete misunderstanding of the US Constitution...

Luckyone said:

Make no mistake about it, this is what is at stake.

Click to expand...

No, it is not. Your argument commits the False Dichotomy logical fallacy.

Luckyone said:

Let me know what you think.

Click to expand...

I just did.

Luckyone said:

Let me know what you think.

Click to expand...

Some of us knew that Trump would stomp all over democratic norms. Sadly, there are people willing to tear up those norms in order to advance a partisan goal, with little regard for the consequences.

Some of us (including Levitsky and Ziblatt) even knew that constitutional hardball wasn't invented in 2017....

Visbek said:

Some of us knew that Trump would stomp all over democratic norms.

Click to expand...

He has not stomped over anything; he has abided by the US Constitution. The USA is not a Democracy; it is a Federated Republic.

Visbek said:

Sadly, there are people willing to tear up those norms in order to advance a partisan goal, with little regard for the consequences.

Click to expand...

True. Those people are typically referred to as Marxists. They have taken over the Democratic Party at this point, and plan to turn our Federated Republic into an Oligarchy (of which they are the ruling class).

Visbek said:

Some of us (including Levitsky and Ziblatt) even knew that constitutional hardball wasn't invented in 2017....

Click to expand...

Luckyone said:

Lets start with today's emergency declaration.

This is not an emergency and he is trying to circumvent Congress by declaring it an emergency. Simply stated, he is trying to get his will done even though the votes are not there to get it done through congress.

this is just one of many things, like putting Whitaker in charge of the Justice Department.

Click to expand...

BULL****. He is following the provisions of the National Emergency Act.


Obama HANDED BIILLIONS to the MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD and IRAN over the EXPRESSED PUBLIC OBJECTIONS OF CONGRESS.


Where were you then...with your "concerns about democracy"?

gfm7175 said:

The USA is not a Democracy. It is a Federated Republic.

A Democracy is mob rule (rule of men). A Republic is constitutional rule (rule of law). Federated means that there are several layers of republics.


Trump hasn't done anything to overstep the US Constitution. He is well aware that the US Constitution is the ruling document of the USA.


Correct. He represents a Federated Republic, which is what the USA actually is...


What checks and balances has he erased? Our forefathers did not create a Democracy; they created a Federated Republic.


Okay.


No, he hasn't.


Of course he's going to; he wants things to run as smoothly as possible... He has every constitutional power to do so...


No judicial member is indebted to him in any way...


He has every constitutional power to do so.


His base supports him just fine.


He is following the Constitution quite well, and our forefathers did not form a Democracy; they formed a Federated Republic.


No democratic process is being thrown away; Trump is abiding by the US Constitution...


False Dichotomy due to a complete misunderstanding of the US Constitution...


No, it is not. Your argument commits the False Dichotomy logical fallacy.


I just did.

Click to expand...

I just have one answer for you.

The same approach that Trump has used over the years to not pay taxes is what he is using now to get his way. He cares nothing about the laws, shown clearly by his over 5000 lawsuits that have been brought against him. The man at the helm of our country should be someone that represents what our forefathers built and what Trump represents is a person that tries to undercut everything that our forefathers built.

Trump is a person that is in it for himself and for getting everything he can in any way he can.

For a criminal, Trump can certainly be a model of what he wants to achieve, but is that what you want us to be? A country where the smartest and most criminal people get the prize?

That is what is at stake

Luckyone said:

I just have one answer for you.

The same approach that Trump has used over the years to not pay taxes is what he is using now to get his way.

Click to expand...

He has used the overly complicated tax code, as it is written, in his favor. So have many other people... So what?

Luckyone said:

He cares nothing about the laws,

Click to expand...

He's abided by them just fine.

Luckyone said:

shown clearly by his over 5000 lawsuits that have been brought against him.

Click to expand...

Anyone can sue anyone for any reason, especially with him being such a public and prominent figure, having lots of assets. Doesn't mean a thing concerning his (non)willingness to abide by laws...

Luckyone said:

The man at the helm of our country should be someone that represents what our forefathers built

Click to expand...

He does.

Luckyone said:

and what Trump represents is a person that tries to undercut everything that our forefathers built.

Click to expand...

WRONG. He supports the USA being a Federated Republic... It is particularly Marxists who are trying to do that, since they wish for the USA to be an Oligarchy with themselves as the ruling class.

Luckyone said:

Trump is a person that is in it for himself and for getting everything he can in any way he can.

Click to expand...

And even if so, why is that a bad thing? His "self-benefit" has employed lots of people and has provided lots of products and services, which is a benefit for the people who have made use of his employment, products, services, etc...

Luckyone said:

For a criminal,

Click to expand...

He is not a criminal. He has not been convicted of any crimes.

Luckyone said:

Trump can certainly be a model of what he wants to achieve, but is that what you want us to be? A country where the smartest and most criminal people get the prize?

Click to expand...

Yes, I want the USA to be smart.

Luckyone said:

That is what is at stake

Click to expand...

Okay.

gfm7175 said:

He has used the overly complicated tax code, as it is written, in his favor. So have many other people... So what?


He's abided by them just fine.


Anyone can sue anyone for any reason, especially with him being such a public and prominent figure, having lots of assets. Doesn't mean a thing concerning his (non)willingness to abide by laws...


He does.


WRONG. He supports the USA being a Federated Republic... It is particularly Marxists who are trying to do that, since they wish for the USA to be an Oligarchy with themselves as the ruling class.


And even if so, why is that a bad thing? His "self-benefit" has employed lots of people and has provided lots of products and services, which is a benefit for the people who have made use of his employment, products, services, etc...


He is not a criminal. He has not been convicted of any crimes.


Yes, I want the USA to be smart.


Okay.

Click to expand...

In other words, you love lawyers right? They have no moral responsibility and defend and get people from going to jail just because they did not break any existing laws even if what they did is morally reprehensible.

People with honor, morals and ethics are not your cup of tea. You like people who take advantage of whatever they can get away with.

In addition, this suggests that you also think badly of the poor, the handicapped, and the people that were unable to get an education given that these are not people that have the ability to be able to take advantage of anything. Am I right?

If I am right (and I think I am), you are certainly not someone I would ever want to know and much less tell me what to do (as Trump is trying to do to all of us)

Luckyone said:

The big question that has been asked for the past 6 years is about the state of our Democracy and what it means to each of us:



This was further exacerbated when Trump took office

It is certainly evident that Trump does not represent Democracy. He has worked hard at erasing the checks and balances that our forefathers thought were essential in a Democracy, which is to have 3 separate sections of Government (Executive, Judicial, and Legislative) that are there are to make sure no one person or entity can take over our government. Trump has worked hard to have them all under his control, either by putting in someone that favors him or his beliefs as the head of those departments, putting judges in the Judicial system that are indebted to him, or by threatening actions (such as a government shut down) or loss of election support from the Republican base.

It all boils down to one person attempting to become an autocrat and destroy our Democracy that our forefathers put together.

The big question for every one us "Americans" needs to answer is whether the economic benefits that Trump brings to the table are good enough to throw away the successful and envied Democratic process we have had in existence for 240 years or whether we stand up for what we have represented for all of this time and fight back, no matter the consequences to our economy?

Make no mistake about it, this is what is at stake.

Let me know what you think.

Click to expand...

The fact Trump got elected is a tribute to our Democratic Republic. What's at stake is whether we continue to be a free society where we're allowed to progress and advance to the extent our skills, knowledge, determination and ambition takes us or whether we come a nation of drones waiting by the mailbox for our "guaranteed income" check to come and thanking our "betters" in the government for their wisdom and kindness.

ETA: I see you're worried that Trump is destroying the "traditional checks and balances or forefathers put together" So, that means you're in favor of the Electoral College process and each state being appropriated two senators no matter their population, right? PS: Merrick was not a moderate. Trump's nominees, had any other president nominated them, would have sailed through confirmation.

Bullseye said:

The fact Trump got elected is a tribute to our Democratic Republic. What's at stake is whether we continue to be a free society where we're allowed to progress and advance to the extent our skills, knowledge, determination and ambition takes us or whether we come a nation of drones waiting by the mailbox for our "guaranteed income" check to come and thanking our "betters" in the government for their wisdom and kindness.

ETA: I see you're worried that Trump is destroying the "traditional checks and balances or forefathers put together" So, that means you're in favor of the Electoral College process and each state being appropriated two senators no matter their population, right? PS: Merrick was not a moderate. Trump's nominees, had any other president nominated them, would have sailed through confirmation.

Click to expand...

The Electoral College may have been a mistake that our forefathers made as it does not fully represent the population. In the days of our forefathers there were only 13 states and most of them were about equal in population and therefore they probably felt that it was a fair way to vote. Big states such as California and small states (or at least with small populations) such as North Dakota were not in the picture then, meaning that the possibility of a state with 40 million versus a state with less than 1 million was not in the conversation. In addition, gerrymandering did not exist then, making even their ideas for representatives of each state not actually showing what the state wanted but what certain districts want.

As such, no I am not in favor of the Electoral College simply because it being in the Constitution is mostly because of a lack of information, whereas the rest of the Constitution is more about rights of people in general.

You cannot give much credit to democrats who hate Trump and therefore refuse to see any of the positives in this current administration. The economy is at its best point in decades but the dems deny the numbers. If you don't like Trump fine, I didn't like Obama but to deny facts will get you burned.

gfm7175 said:

The USA is not a Democracy. It is a Federated Republic.

Click to expand...

It is both a democracy and a republic. A republic is simply any state, democratic or undemocratic, that doesn't have a monarchy. A democracy is where the citizens of a state select their leadership through free and fair elections (making them part of the political process) and where human rights are respected. There are democratic non-republics (like Great Britain, Japan, Scandinavia, and the Low Countries), and non-democratic republics (like Russia, China, North Korea, Syria, and Iran). The federalism aspect just refers to the United States having sub-national governmental bodies.

gfm7175 said:

He has not stomped over anything; he has abided by the US Constitution. The USA is not a Democracy; it is a Federated Republic.


True. Those people are typically referred to as Marxists. They have taken over the Democratic Party at this point, and plan to turn our Federated Republic into an Oligarchy (of which they are the ruling class).

Click to expand...

Bravo on taking down the false notions point by point. I find it rich that the Left loves to tell us that Trump is "destroying our democracy", which we never had. In the meantime, they are doing their level best to overthrow a duly-elected President and destroy our Constitution. They will turn logic inside out to do so and get their way, by any means necessary.

Luckyone said:

In other words, you love lawyers right?

Click to expand...

Some lawyers are fine, some lawyers are real slimeballs... Not sure how this pertains to our discussion...

Luckyone said:

They have no moral responsibility and defend and get people from going to jail just because they did not break any existing laws even if what they did is morally reprehensible.

Click to expand...

Their job is to defend their clients.

Luckyone said:

People with honor, morals and ethics are not your cup of tea.

Click to expand...

Bulverism Fallacy. Insult Fallacy.

Luckyone said:

You like people who take advantage of whatever they can get away with.

Click to expand...

Bulverism Fallacy. Insult Fallacy.

Luckyone said:

In addition, this suggests that you also think badly of the poor, the handicapped, and the people that were unable to get an education given that these are not people that have the ability to be able to take advantage of anything. Am I right?

Click to expand...

Bulverism Fallacy. Insult Fallacy.

Luckyone said:

If I am right (and I think I am), you are certainly not someone I would ever want to know and much less tell me what to do (as Trump is trying to do to all of us)

Click to expand...

Insult Fallacy.


Are we going to talk about anything of substance, or are you going to continue attacking my character and supposed motives?

gfm7175 said:

Some lawyers are fine, some lawyers are real slimeballs... Not sure how this pertains to our discussion...


Their job is to defend their clients.


Bulverism Fallacy. Insult Fallacy.


Bulverism Fallacy. Insult Fallacy.


Bulverism Fallacy. Insult Fallacy.


Insult Fallacy.


Are we going to talk about anything of substance, or are you going to continue attacking my character and supposed motives?

Click to expand...

It is very simple and the reason for my last post. Trump has used every single tool available to him without any concern whether it is morally correct or not. Not paying taxes for years for someone as rich as he is, is morally wrong. Paying taxes is what makes us be able to live in a wonderful nation. I can see that as an individual person he might not want to pay for his individual benefit but as a President he represents all of us and his actions and lack of desire to show his taxes is like him saying to all of us that is the way to act. If everyone acts that way, we would not have a nation.

Since you are applauding his actions, it does suggest that you support such actions and what they represent. I gave an example regarding lawyers since the reality is that they follow the law and generally do not allow moral standards to interfere with their job. Since they often represent reprehensible people and those that want to do wrong but get away with it and you seem to like Trump doing something like that, it would suggest you like lawyers and hate those that don't or can't take advantage of our laws.

There is a legal standard and a moral standard and generally they are not in the same corner. I prefer a moral standard. If I was a lawyer, I would likely be a prosecutor or if defending someone, I would only represent someone I consider innocent. I would not ever represent someone that was legally correct but morally incorrect.

You seem to support the former per your defense of Trump. He always uses the law for his benefit but I have never seen him apply moral standards to anything, like when he separated mothers from their children but did not even keep records of where they were so they could get reunited in the future. That was an example of being legally correct but totally morally wrong.

grokmaster said:

bull****. He is following the provisions of the national emergency act.


obama handed biillions to the muslim brotherhood and iran over the expressed public objections of congress.


Where were you then...with your "concerns about democracy"?

Click to expand...

bingo!!!

Luckyone said:

The Electoral College may have been a mistake that our forefathers made as it does not fully represent the population. In the days of our forefathers there were only 13 states and most of them were about equal in population and therefore they probably felt that it was a fair way to vote. Big states such as California and small states (or at least with small populations) such as North Dakota were not in the picture then, meaning that the possibility of a state with 40 million versus a state with less than 1 million was not in the conversation. In addition, gerrymandering did not exist then, making even their ideas for representatives of each state not actually showing what the state wanted but what certain districts want.

As such, no I am not in favor of the Electoral College simply because it being in the Constitution is mostly because of a lack of information, whereas the rest of the Constitution is more about rights of people in general.

Click to expand...

So, then, you lied claiming you were for the checks and balances designed by the founding fathers. By the way gerrymandering really doesn't apply to a statewide election.


Oh, and the EC protects the rights to be heard of people in those small states. You're for protecting rights, correct? You're not just whining because Trump won, right?

Just because a candidate runs up a huge plurality in one state does make that the will of the people. Trump lost to Clinton in California and New York by a total of over 6 million votes yet lost the nation popular vote by less than three million. So in the other 48 states he won the popular vote by 3 million. The EC reflected that.

trixare4kids said:

What Democratic process has Trump thrown away? Name and date... lay it out.

Click to expand...

He's still whining about the EC. Seems like we just had a tremendous demonstration of the democratic process - it's called an election. And then, guess what, one of those checks and balances prevented Trump from getting all the money he wanted for the border. But that doesn't count in Luckyone's world.

Bullseye said:

So, then, you lied claiming you were for the checks and balances designed by the founding fathers. By the way gerrymandering really doesn't apply to a statewide election.


Oh, and the EC protects the rights to be heard of people in those small states. You're for protecting rights, correct? You're not just whining because Trump won, right?

Just because a candidate runs up a huge plurality in one state does make that the will of the people. Trump lost to Clinton in California and New York by a total of over 6 million votes yet lost the nation popular vote by less than three million. So in the other 48 states he won the popular vote by 3 million. The EC reflected that.

Click to expand...

I fully understand what you are saying and I do not truly have a good argument against it. Nonetheless, gerrymandering has made the electoral college unfair to begin with and that was a change that was made to the constitution. It does not represent the state itself but the make up of the state determined by those that were in charge at some point and changed it.

By the same token, it is also evident that our forefathers could not have predicted the scenario that is seen now but if they had been able to foresee it, I doubt they would have allowed the electoral college to be what it is now.

I do not have a suggestion as to how to change it. It should be changed though and likely by an unbiased panel of representatives or by bi-partisan agreement to get rid of the unfairness of it. There is no way that a state with less than 1 million should have the same determining power over a state with 40 million, especially when the needs of each state are so completely opposed.

Using a fantasy example, imagine there being 52 states and 90% of the population living in only 2 of those states, meaning that 35 million people would decide what what 350 million must do. That almost sounds like a dictatorship instead of a democracy.