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Trump just killed the emergency act move

Fearandloathing said:
Have a re-read of the Novel "1984".

The governing party actually have slogans like "Peace is war"; the main character works for the "Ministry of Truth"; his job is to re-write history to suit the changing wars with enemies who overnight become allies and vice versa.

In this care read Macheavelli's "The Prince" who advises the court to keep the masses afraid by inventing various "emergencies" that require military action. In such a way they can continue kidnapping able bodied men to serve in war, which they consider entertainment
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The parallels have been obvious for a while.. I am just amazed that people actually are like that.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
There might not be a court fight if trump does not follow the proper procedure for declaring a national emergency

I believe the trump administration has to do the following three items:

-Submit formally to Congress a declaration of the national emergency

-Enter the declaration into the Federal Register

-Specify within the declaration which the statutory authorities the President invokes to justify the action


I don’t think trump has done any of the following
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Oh, so you think this is actually about getting a wall built?

One, read some recent news about the Texas ranchers who own that land.

But seriously, no one but Trump's base believes there will ever be a Great Big Wall of concrete and steel.

All Trump is appealing to his base of whom he can now complain "they won't let me" and demonize the individuals who have hurt his feelings.

Jesus, man. Do you actually believe Obamacare has been killed? That North Korea has even slowed it's nuclear program? That Trump 'won' the trade wars he's started? ****, China hasn't even fired back, neither has Canada. Talk to the dairy people in Wisconsin, they'll demonstrate how they are dumping 30 to 40% of their milk as fertilizer because the Chinese bought elsewhere.

You are your own worst enemy...you believe this snake oil salesman over your own govern


Promise..........
 
Lursa said:
:doh

If it's not based on an actual emergency, then why would the courts uphold it?

And if it's tied up in the courts for months or years...how does it get built 'faster?' :roll:

Hard to resist pointing out that there will be many that jump right on this train to illogicville....
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While it seems obvious it's a fake emergency, SCOTUS may not take that into consideration. They initially may simply rule on whether the President has the legal right to call an emergency, which he clearly does. SCOTUS does not like to get involved in political disputes between the branches, if at all possible.

However, I think there will definitely be all kinds of court impedances put up by the individuals and entities that will directly be affected (landowners, states & counties, etc).
 
Felis Leo said:
The lack of a secure border is certainly a crisis, but it is not an emergency. In the same way that the opioid epidemic is a crisis, but not an emergency. The border is something that needs serious attention and requires serious security to stop illegal entry. But it does not require the President to engage in insincere and unconstitutional power grabs in its pursuit. What is needed is intellectually honest politicians who can put aside their inane squabbles to sit down with one another and actually discuss what needs to be done, rather than stand on these political soap boxes to rally their bases.
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Opinion, Opinion, Opinion, everyone has an opinion. I'll bet if you ask a parent who lost a son or daughter if there's an emergency to secure our border. They would probably say "hell yes we don't want anymore of our loved ones killed by illegals" or die of drugs crossing our border, or under age girles being sold to the sex trade etc.

Our border has been in crisis mode from day one, our border has never been closed. Never, so now we're in emergency mode, because being in crisis mode no one has done a damn thing except put a little eye wash on and kick the can. So being in crises mode means nothing to anybody, so now Trump is taking it to the next level as it should have been decades ago.
 
Chomsky said:
A Dem declaring a firearms related emergency cannot nullify the 2nd A, but it may involve those bits around the edges that have not been found unconstitutional. I'm speaking of things like universal background checks, waiting periods, CCW provisions, records keeping, taxation, etc.

Ceding power to the Presidency can have its negative consequences. I prefer the majority of power remain with the People (House).
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You are guessing. I'm asking for facts.

"What laws that are affected by the National Emergencies Act could possibly be used to confiscate guns, limit gun sales or do any of the other things that gun banners want to do?"

As far as the House is concerned, it's part of Congress. They don't control the government...no matter how much you might want them to.
 
Chomsky said:
While it seems obvious it's a fake emergency, SCOTUS may not take that into consideration.
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Emergencies are the loophole in Democracies that dictators use to grab power. Maybe Trump's next move is to declare an emergency that requires marshall law.
 
Chomsky said:
While it seems obvious it's a fake emergency, SCOTUS may not take that into consideration. They initially may simply rule on whether the President has the legal right to call an emergency, which he clearly does. SCOTUS does not like to get involved in political disputes between the branches, if at all possible.

However, I think there will definitely be all kinds of court impedances put up by the individuals and entities that will directly be affected (landowners, states & counties, etc).
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Oh I know. They will be examining legal issues, like if it's a valid use of eminent domain, etc.
 
Utility Man said:
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;)

tumblr_pm99ioNtxx1qhthzmo1_500.jpg
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BiPolar Vortex? Hah! :mrgreen:
 
Born Free said:
Opinion, Opinion, Opinion, everyone has an opinion. I'll bet if you ask a parent who lost a son or daughter if there's an emergency to secure our border. They would probably say "hell yes we don't want anymore of our loved ones killed by illegals" or die of drugs crossing our border, or under age girles being sold to the sex trade etc.

Our border has been in crisis mode from day one, our border has never been closed. Never, so now we're in emergency mode, because being in crisis mode no one has done a damn thing except put a little eye wash on and kick the can. So being in crises mode means nothing to anybody, so now Trump is taking it to the next level as it should have been decades ago.
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You are more likely to get killed by a native-born American than an unauthorized migrant. Painting immigrants as murders and criminals is racist fearmongering.
 
RAMOSS said:
The parallels have been obvious for a while.. I am just amazed that people actually are like that.
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I first referenced 1984 when Trump entered the race. Have a look at the 1 hour plus rant he made announcing his candidacy. It's a Trump version of the entire book, "....enemies to the left of us, enemies to the right, behind and ahead..even Canada. And I am the only one who can fix it."

If you read about all the dictators every one of them from Julius Caesar on made that claim...."Only I can save you...." It sure worked for Hitler
 
Mycroft said:
Cool. That's your prediction.

Moving on...
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No, you did not "snip the nonsense" you were too afraid to have it out there and are afraid to deal with it. It IS the truth after all and Trumpies have this aversion to anything even appearing to be factual
 
Lakryte said:
The laws don't support Trump building the wall either. That's my point. Neither actions are supported by law. But Trump is doing one of them anyway.
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You still don't understand. It's not a matter of laws supporting the building of the wall. It's a matter of laws being used to enable the building of the wall.

Building the wall is a lawful action. There is no question about that.
 
Mycroft said:
Again...let me know when they are 99% less.
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Well - it's not about whether you think it's an emergency, but about what the Court thinks. A 75% decrease in illegal crossings would seem to fly counter to the need for an emergency order (If SCOTUS evaluates the emergency nature, as part of their adjudication).
 
Fearandloathing said:
I first referenced 1984 when Trump entered the race. Have a look at the 1 hour plus rant he made announcing his candidacy. It's a Trump version of the entire book, "....enemies to the left of us, enemies to the right, behind and ahead..even Canada. And I am the only one who can fix it."

If you read about all the dictators every one of them from Julius Caesar on made that claim...."Only I can save you...." It sure worked for Hitler
Click to expand...

The checks and balances in the U.S. are certainly being put to the test.
 
Mycroft said:
You still don't understand. It's not a matter of laws supporting the building of the wall. It's a matter of laws being used to enable the building of the wall.
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What kind of nonsense semantics is that?

Building the wall is a lawful action. There is no question about that.
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Actually, there is serious question about that. Especially considering Congress just passed a spending bill the expressly refused to provide funding to build the wall Trump wants. Congress controls the power of the purse, not the President.
 
I don't know how many realize it, but by declaring a national emergency, Trump just gave himself vast statutorily powers at his disposal. Like seizing control of the internet to declare martial law. Trump has an evident hostility to key elements of liberal democracy and this is how dictators act. Those who see Trump as a threat to democracy comfort themselves with the belief that limits will hold him in check. Does Trump appear to be a man that has ever been kept in check? With the flick of his pen he has the power to activate laws allowing him to shut down many kinds of electronic communications inside the United States or freeze Americans’ bank accounts. Other powers are available even without a declaration of emergency, including laws that allow the president to deploy troops inside the country to subdue domestic unrest.

The internet is being manipulated by many countries around the world. These shutdowns range from blocking certain websites or social media sites to full internet blackouts. The internet in China has always been a 'walled garden'. Its 800 million internet users are protected by a great firewall to protect it from the 'corrupting' influences of sites such as Google, Facebook and the New York Times. Technology is no more free of bias or abuse than the humans who develop it and the leaders that control it.

Keep that in the back of your mind that Trump has the power to limit what you see on television or on the internet. Remember that new 'wireless emergency' signal that everyone got from the president on their cellphone a few months ago? “Presidential Alert: THIS IS A TEST of the National Wireless Emergency Alert System. No action is needed.” Whether you want it or not, whether you like it or not, we're all going to be subjected to any message sent by the government.
 
Lakryte said:
You are more likely to get killed by a native-born American than an unauthorized migrant. Painting immigrants as murders and criminals is racist fearmongering.
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That may be, but with no illegals in our country there would be no crime from an illegal.

I take it you're suggesting that because illegals don't kill as many as we kill our own, that's an excuse to allow more criminal illegals in.

I take it that 9-11 killed 3,000 people, so geeee no big deal having terrorist kill a few thousand people a year. Because they have not killed as many as we do ourselves.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Oh, so you think this is actually about getting a wall built?

One, read some recent news about the Texas ranchers who own that land.

But seriously, no one but Trump's base believes there will ever be a Great Big Wall of concrete and steel.

All Trump is appealing to his base of whom he can now complain "they won't let me" and demonize the individuals who have hurt his feelings.

Jesus, man. Do you actually believe Obamacare has been killed? That North Korea has even slowed it's nuclear program? That Trump 'won' the trade wars he's started? ****, China hasn't even fired back, neither has Canada. Talk to the dairy people in Wisconsin, they'll demonstrate how they are dumping 30 to 40% of their milk as fertilizer because the Chinese bought elsewhere.

You are your own worst enemy...you believe this snake oil salesman over your own govern


Promise..........
Click to expand...

Fearandloathing, if you think I believe trump, I don’t trust anything he says.

What I do believe is that trump is motivated by two fears: a fear of losing, and a fear of losing his base.
 
Lakryte said:
You are more likely to get killed by a native-born American than an unauthorized migrant. Painting immigrants as murders and criminals is racist fearmongering.
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Irrelevant. Every single illegal alien murder is a murder that didn't have to happen because illegals don't belong here.
 
Chomsky said:
Well - it's not about whether you think it's an emergency, but about what the Court thinks. A 75% decrease in illegal crossings would seem to fly counter to the need for an emergency order (If SCOTUS evaluates the emergency nature, as part of their adjudication).
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No, a 100% decrease would fly counter to the need for emergency order.
 
Chomsky said:
Well - it's not about whether you think it's an emergency, but about what the Court thinks. A 75% decrease in illegal crossings would seem to fly counter to the need for an emergency order (If SCOTUS evaluates the emergency nature, as part of their adjudication).
Click to expand...

No. It's not even about what the court thinks. Hell, it's not even about what I think. And, it certainly isn't about what you think.

It's about the law. In this case, it's about the National Emergencies Act.

That Act doesn't establish any standards as to what constitutes an emergency. In essence, an emergency is whatever the President says it is. If Congress disagrees, there is a process for them to nullify the emergency. That is the extent of the law.

The court, if they feel they must interfere, can only take it upon themselves to engage in judicial activism. That has proven to be a losing course of action most of the time.
 
HumblePi said:
I don't know how many realize it, but by declaring a national emergency, Trump just gave himself vast statutorily powers at his disposal. Like seizing control of the internet to declare martial law. Trump has an evident hostility to key elements of liberal democracy and this is how dictators act. Those who see Trump as a threat to democracy comfort themselves with the belief that limits will hold him in check. Does Trump appear to be a man that has ever been kept in check? With the flick of his pen he has the power to activate laws allowing him to shut down many kinds of electronic communications inside the United States or freeze Americans’ bank accounts. Other powers are available even without a declaration of emergency, including laws that allow the president to deploy troops inside the country to subdue domestic unrest.

The internet is being manipulated by many countries around the world. These shutdowns range from blocking certain websites or social media sites to full internet blackouts. The internet in China has always been a 'walled garden'. Its 800 million internet users are protected by a great firewall to protect it from the 'corrupting' influences of sites such as Google, Facebook and the New York Times. Technology is no more free of bias or abuse than the humans who develop it and the leaders that control it.

Keep that in the back of your mind that Trump has the power to limit what you see on television or on the internet. Remember that new 'wireless emergency' signal that everyone got from the president on their cellphone a few months ago? “Presidential Alert: THIS IS A TEST of the National Wireless Emergency Alert System. No action is needed.” Whether you want it or not, whether you like it or not, we're all going to be subjected to any message sent by the government.
Click to expand...

I mentioned this in post 146, but I will mention it again.

There might not be a court fight if trump does not follow the proper procedure for declaring a national emergency

I believe the trump administration has to do the following three items:

-Submit formally to Congress a declaration of the national emergency

-Enter the declaration into the Federal Register

-Specify within the declaration which the statutory authorities the President invokes to justify the action


I don’t think trump has done any of that.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Irrelevant. Every single illegal alien murder is a murder that didn't have to happen because illegals don't belong here.
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Not at all irrelevant. Every murder is a murder that didn't have to happen. Young men are more likely to commit murder than other demographics. Should we therefore deport all young men? Or lock them up for a few years? Maybe just deny them access to guns? Of course not.

When the immigrant population is more peaceful than the native population, painting immigrants as murderers is absurd and amounts to racist fearmongering, nothing more.
 
HumblePi said:
I don't know how many realize it, but by declaring a national emergency, Trump just gave himself vast statutorily powers at his disposal.
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No...he didn't.

The National Emergencies Act is quite limited in what it allows the President to do in times of emergency. He doesn't have "vast statutorily powers".

Furthermore, Trump didn't give himself anything. Congress and President Ford gave it to him.
 
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