Should States keep unvaccinated children from attending public schools?

Northern Light said:

As long as vaccine injury is not acknowledged and as long as doctors aren't doing proper adverse drug reaction reporting on vaccine reactions, children should not be vaccinated.

Lack of ADRs means we don't have a complete picture of vaccine injury and therefore, as parents, we can't do proper risk assessment. The guardasil vaccine is a great example. Thousands of anecdotal reports of healthy girls becoming paralyzed following the vaccine. This data is not collected and added to the drug disclaimer -- they just pretend it's an anomaly in the girls' immune systems.

Japan banned the MMR vaccine in the 90's due to an unacceptable level of meningitis appearing in children, the same disease suspected of causing autism in some children. Dural swelling is a real phenomenon and it injures developing brains. It's what happened to my son.

Drug trials are designed by corporations to meet minimum safety standards, but they lack longevity. It's the general public and ADR reporting that provides the long-term data, and the U.S. medical system is not adequately collecting it... all for political reasons.

Whether you are for or against vaccinations, you should be able to refuse a medicine for any reason. If school wants to keep unvaccinated children out, fine. But claiming it's child neglect to not get them vaccinated is crossing the line. I decide what goes into my child's body, not you. A drug could be 100% beneficial with zero side effects and I should still have the right to refuse.

I am against wanton expansion of government power into medicine. If people can no longer refuse medical procedures then we are screwed. I understand it's different if a medical procedure will stave off imminent death of a child. But we're talking about preventative medicine. If we can't opt out of so-called prevention then the government can put anything into our bodies that they want.

I feel that the pro-vax/anti-vax debate is a trojan horse for expansion of government power and it's not a good sign. People are too caught up in the polarized debate - as usual - to see the usurping of power happening.

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So... again, and with feeling.

If you don't vaccinate your kid, home-school him.

Superfly said:

And exploiting stupidity. You'll always have stupid people who refuse to listen to reason.

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Some are Religious Fundamentalists, Some are paranoid ant government types...Still many are wealthy and educated...who should know better.Bizarre really

The only exceptions to vaccination should be for home schooled.....if your kids are going to an outside school, get them vaccinated.

joko104 said:

Why? Unless you believe vaccinations don't work, why would you care if your vaccinated children are around children who have not been?

Pick one. Do you believe vaccinations work or not?

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Because vaccinated children can still serve as a vehicle to transmit the disease to others even if they are not affected.....placing an unvaccinated child in contact with a vaccinated child can allow the vaccinated child to carry the disease to others.

Superfly said:

^^ This. Just because you don't care enough about your kid to make sure they are healthy, don't bring them around mine.

When I was a kid, we had to have certain vaccinations before we could go to school. My kids were the same way. Hell, they wanted my shot card when I went to college. How is this even a thing now?

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Yup, for all 3 of mine, I had to provide a vaccination sheet every year before they could enter school.

Look, I have no problem if people choose not to vaccinate. Their kids - their choice. But if they choose not to vaccinate, with that choice comes responsibility, and they have a responsibility not to be around other peoples' kids.

Wayne Jr said:

Unvaccinated kids will always be around your kids, unless you're saying you only let your kids go to school and never anywhere else, not even to the store.

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Yeah, we sent our kids to school and then chained them in their bedrooms the rest of the time.:roll:

We're talking about public schools in this thread. Not stores.

joko104 said:

Putting children is school is not optional to parents. In most states parents who keep their children out of school can be criminally prosecuted and jailed. I gather from your message that you want compulsory school attendance laws eliminated?

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Actually, home schooling is legally allowed by all states. Let all the anti-vaxxers join together and let their kids incubate together. They do not have the right to deliberately spread disease to others.

I've also heard that as part of the state-sponsored indoctrination, some school teachers are requiring their elementary aged students to WASH THEIR HANDS MULTIPLE TIMES A DAY! The fiends!

AGENT J said:

Yes

of course there should probably be SOME exceptions based on MEDICAL SCIENCE . . not feelings . . not religion.

Anti-vaxers = flat earthers = climate deniers = birthers = 9/11 nutters

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The thing is that their conspiracy theory will KILL other people.

Northern Light said:

As long as vaccine injury is not acknowledged and as long as doctors aren't doing proper adverse drug reaction reporting on vaccine reactions, children should not be vaccinated.

Lack of ADRs means we don't have a complete picture of vaccine injury and therefore, as parents, we can't do proper risk assessment. The guardasil vaccine is a great example. Thousands of anecdotal reports of healthy girls becoming paralyzed following the vaccine. This data is not collected and added to the drug disclaimer -- they just pretend it's an anomaly in the girls' immune systems.

Japan banned the MMR vaccine in the 90's due to an unacceptable level of meningitis appearing in children, the same disease suspected of causing autism in some children. Dural swelling is a real phenomenon and it injures developing brains. It's what happened to my son.

Drug trials are designed by corporations to meet minimum safety standards, but they lack longevity. It's the general public and ADR reporting that provides the long-term data, and the U.S. medical system is not adequately collecting it... all for political reasons.

Whether you are for or against vaccinations, you should be able to refuse a medicine for any reason. If school wants to keep unvaccinated children out, fine. But claiming it's child neglect to not get them vaccinated is crossing the line. I decide what goes into my child's body, not you. A drug could be 100% beneficial with zero side effects and I should still have the right to refuse.

I am against wanton expansion of government power into medicine. If people can no longer refuse medical procedures then we are screwed. I understand it's different if a medical procedure will stave off imminent death of a child. But we're talking about preventative medicine. If we can't opt out of so-called prevention then the government can put anything into our bodies that they want.

I feel that the pro-vax/anti-vax debate is a trojan horse for expansion of government power and it's not a good sign. People are too caught up in the polarized debate - as usual - to see the usurping of power happening.

Click to expand...

No one is forcing your children to be vaccinated, no one, but the rest of us that actually believe science do not want your unvaccinated children around ours, period. You made your choice and the rest of us should be safe from that choice.

Gina said:

I saw that. How appalling. From your link:


Yeah, because no person in the era before vaccines, ever had cancer. What a flipping moron.

Measles is dangerous. I know a person who had it who developed measles encephalitis. They were lucky they survived it and it was extremely painful as well. What monster would want to put their child at risk of suffering from that or worse, if they can prevent it with a vaccination?

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The only thing that might make that slightly true is because in the era before vaccines people generally died too young to get cancer.

independentusa said:

No one is forcing your children to be vaccinated, no one, but the rest of us that actually believe science do not want your unvaccinated children around ours, period. You made your choice and the rest of us should be safe from that choice.

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Funny that you mention science, but have you actually read the science? Good and bad? Because that's what it means to be objective. I'm a biologist (M. Sc Biology) and I've poured over the medical journals, the (available) ADR reports, and I'm connected with communities who are anecdotally reporting vaccine reactions.

You have no right to tell unvaccinated children to stay out of school. Aside from the fact that they have a right to an education, no vaccine is 100% effective. The best vaccines are still 95% effective, leaving 5% of the vaccinated population still susceptible to illness, which is actually more than the so called anti-vax population.

We don't know how herd immunity works. Not fully. Vaccination programs do not provide as effective of herd immunity as we thought. The mounting evidence shows that the life span of vaccines is diminishing, and we don't know why. It may be because of the antibiotic era damaging gut flora, reducing the immune system. It may be that children are more prone to immune dysregulation and weakness these days than in the past. It may even be because the vaccines themselves are not as effective as we once thought.

Back when objective research into vaccine efficacy was more widespread than it is today - because scientists were not castrated by the politics du jour - it was known that 100% vaccinated populations are not 100% protected from disease. Here is one study from 1985 showing that the measles vaccine was ineffective. Japan banned the MMR in the 90's because it was causing elevated rates of non-viral meningitis, damaging the brains of children. It was also not shown to stop outbreaks.

Of course, the media is totally silent about populations in the U.S. who have high levels of vaccination against mumps but are still having outbreaks. They blame it on anti-vaxers because it sells the news, but it's a total lie.

Certain illnesses are becoming resistant to vaccines, not because of unvaccinated children, but because of widespread antibiotic use. (Granted, this is a bacterial illness, but nonetheless it is one of the childhood vaccines that schools are mandating children get to be allowed in schools.)

I'm not saying we shouldn't consider vaccination for children. I'm not even saying vaccines are worthless. I'm saying that it's illogical to ban unvaccinated children from being at school when vaccines are not bullet proof AND there is growing evidence that they make it easier for some children to get infected by other illnesses.

There were so many lawsuits regarding vaccine ADRs that the Federal Government created a special vaccine court and by 2010 it had dolled out $2 billion in damages. The numbers are surely much higher now.

The government made it against the law to sue doctors who administer vaccines. They established the courts instead and the government pays out the money directly. So in other words, tax payers pay for damages from vaccines, not the drug companies or the doctors. They get carte blanche. Why is the government protecting the medical establishment from causing vaccine injury? And why are doctors not reporting vaccine injury to the level they should be?

The sad thing is that despite all these court cases, Adverse Drugs Reactions are still under reported.

(Cont'd...)

independentusa said:

No one is forcing your children to be vaccinated, no one, but the rest of us that actually believe science do not want your unvaccinated children around ours, period. You made your choice and the rest of us should be safe from that choice.

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My son suffered brain damage after receiving the MMR. He went from being a normally functional child to low functioning autism within 72 hours. The doctor didn't report it, my partner and I had to. The government then asked us for medical documents and we had none because the doctor did not keep them. He simply described it as an infectious fever causing idiopathic brain swelling. It was a totally lie. The MMR did it. I have talked to thousands - not hundreds, THOUSANDS - of parents over the years who have had the same thing happen to their children.

And then we have people like you running around calling us crazy, unscientific, or woo woo because we want to protect our children from tyrannical government practices, like keeping our children stupid and uneducated because we won't allow them to receive potentially harmful medical interventions that aren't 100% effective anyway.

It has always been standard practice in schools that if there's an outbreak of a childhood illness, the parents of unvaccinated children are notified so they can pull their kids out of school.

Someone in this thread stated that children who are immune compromised and can't get vaccinated need to be protected in schools by the herd. WRONG. Standard practice for immune compromised children in schools is to TAKE THEM OUT of school when there's an outbreak. Why? Because everyone in class could be vaccinated but the immune compromised child is STILL AT RISK. The onus has always been on the immune compromised to protect themselves, through quarantine. This is standard medical practice in any hospital community. There's no such thing as 100% protection of the immune compromised, only risk mitigation.

I love how people run around threads like these spouting "science" when they don't even know the science or the day to day realities on the ground level. They just run around political forums spouting their stupid, ignorant opinions as facts, and when enough stupid opinions get populist status, it starts affecting our rights as parents and the social well being of our children.

Your rights end where mine begin. DO SOME READING.