• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

America a declining power

A

Atheist 2020

Banned
Joined
Jul 22, 2018
Messages
1,802
Reaction score
290
Location
Tennessee
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Socialist
Even if Trump loses reelection in the 2020 election -- America is a declining world power. Trumps base is around 35%, and they will be around in the 2020's and the 2030's. If you scream build the wall, hoping that it would stop people coming to America: you are really dreaming. Second, if I am in a foreign country, and you scream build the wall, they are not impressed in there country to engage in trade with America: or willing to visit the United States. A European that is 30 years old or older, is very much a rare person if he or she has never visited a foreign country. And if you have not, your very much a social outcast within your country of birth.

Yes, America has a large military, and the United Kingdom and its empire had a large military in 1945 too. But, the empire is dead and right now the United Kingdom is on the march of breaking up when it leaves the European Union.
 
Atheist 2020 said:
Even if Trump loses reelection in the 2020 election -- America is a declining world power. Trumps base is around 35%, and they will be around in the 2020's and the 2030's. If you scream build the wall, hoping that it would stop people coming to America: you are really dreaming. Second, if I am in a foreign country, and you scream build the wall, they are not impressed in there country to engage in trade with America: or willing to visit the United States. A European that is 30 years old or older, is very much a rare person if he or she has never visited a foreign country. And if you have not, your very much a social outcast within your country of birth.

Yes, America has a large military, and the United Kingdom and its empire had a large military in 1945 too. But, the empire is dead and right now the United Kingdom is on the march of breaking up when it leaves the European Union.
Click to expand...

The US an empire?

Since when?
 
Atheist 2020 said:
Even if Trump loses reelection in the 2020 election -- America is a declining world power. Trumps base is around 35%, and they will be around in the 2020's and the 2030's. If you scream build the wall, hoping that it would stop people coming to America: you are really dreaming. Second, if I am in a foreign country, and you scream build the wall, they are not impressed in there country to engage in trade with America: or willing to visit the United States. A European that is 30 years old or older, is very much a rare person if he or she has never visited a foreign country. And if you have not, your very much a social outcast within your country of birth.

Yes, America has a large military, and the United Kingdom and its empire had a large military in 1945 too. But, the empire is dead and right now the United Kingdom is on the march of breaking up when it leaves the European Union.
Click to expand...



Please be careful with that word.

A second Trump term doesn't bear thinking about.
 
Atheist 2020 said:
Even if Trump loses reelection in the 2020 election -- America is a declining world power. Trumps base is around 35%, and they will be around in the 2020's and the 2030's. If you scream build the wall, hoping that it would stop people coming to America: you are really dreaming. Second, if I am in a foreign country, and you scream build the wall, they are not impressed in there country to engage in trade with America: or willing to visit the United States. A European that is 30 years old or older, is very much a rare person if he or she has never visited a foreign country. And if you have not, your very much a social outcast within your country of birth.

Yes, America has a large military, and the United Kingdom and its empire had a large military in 1945 too. But, the empire is dead and right now the United Kingdom is on the march of breaking up when it leaves the European Union.
Click to expand...

Unlike Israel, America has been offered no hope of continued existence in Bible prophecy.
 
Atheist 2020 said:
Even if Trump loses reelection in the 2020 election -- America is a declining world power. Trumps base is around 35%, and they will be around in the 2020's and the 2030's. If you scream build the wall, hoping that it would stop people coming to America: you are really dreaming. Second, if I am in a foreign country, and you scream build the wall, they are not impressed in there country to engage in trade with America: or willing to visit the United States. A European that is 30 years old or older, is very much a rare person if he or she has never visited a foreign country. And if you have not, your very much a social outcast within your country of birth.

Yes, America has a large military, and the United Kingdom and its empire had a large military in 1945 too. But, the empire is dead and right now the United Kingdom is on the march of breaking up when it leaves the European Union.
Click to expand...

I don't know...you toss a lot of nonsense against the wall, what with "if Trump loses...", "35%", "wall", "foreign visitors", etc, but you really don't give any reason to think that "America a declining power".

Surely you can do better than this?
 
Mycroft said:
I don't know...you toss a lot of nonsense against the wall, what with "if Trump loses...", "35%", "wall", "foreign visitors", etc, but you really don't give any reason to think that "America a declining power".

Surely you can do better than this?
Click to expand...

Only a poor man would use the term nonsense. As a atheist, I have to use a great deal of facts and common knowledge to refute the Bible. If I say the Bible is nonsense, I am a poor man with limited knowledge and limited education.
 
Atheist 2020 said:
Only a poor man would use the term nonsense. As a atheist, I have to use a great deal of facts and common knowledge to refute the Bible. If I say the Bible is nonsense, I am a poor man with limited knowledge and limited education.
Click to expand...

LOL!!

Sorry, but your "Bible" ploy won't work. I'm not religious and I don't care about the Bible. So...I don't care what you might think about it or that you are an atheist.

But this thread...and your contention about America being a declining power...is YOUR work. Defend it. Or don't. Your choice.
 
Mycroft said:
LOL!!

Sorry, but your "Bible" ploy won't work. I'm not religious and I don't care about the Bible. So...I don't care what you might think about it or that you are an atheist.

But this thread...and your contention about America being a declining power...is YOUR work. Defend it. Or don't. Your choice.
Click to expand...

Supporting building the wall and supporting the military has a conflict of interest were you cannot support both. 1/3rd of the American public supports building the wall. East Germany built and managed the Berlin Wall were 2% of the population managed the wall and spied on its population to make sure they did not cross the boarder. It would cost billions of dollars to build and manage the wall. And, you will be spending billions of dollars to stop a mother and child from crossing the boarder. And, deporting a vast amount of the population because they crossed the boarder years ago. That society is a closed society.

On the other hand, we spend billions of dollars to build navy capital ships. We build ships, and they are carriers and other ships in a navy task force. In the past, we sent a carrier task force with fighter jets that cost millions of dollars loaded with thousands of dollars of weapons. And from time to time, we had a navy fighter jet to use their weapons to destroy a pick up truck. And we had the military show the video to the press and the general public. That society is a open society.

You cannot support a closed society and a open society at the same time. You cannot support a open society were the military will kill a single person in a pick up truck in a foreign country and a closed society with a boarder to prevent a mother and child from crossing the boarder. We are moving to a closed society, and we build the wall, and we end up spying on each other keeping the security we feel we need. Sooner or later a close society will collapse onto itself. On the other hand, with a open society, we are going to far with killing everyone we believe are terrorists. Using a navy jet from a navy carrier to kill one man driving a pick up truck only tells the world your going to lose the war. After the war in Europe after World War II, there was millions of people who supported NAZI Germany. We understood we could not arrest and place into prison everyone that made money during the NAZI era. On the other hand, we are spending millions of dollars to kill every single person we think are terrorists.

We are still a open society, but, we are miss-managing the outcome.
 
Trump has only accelerated the decline. That Trumpists will watch him hug a flag and listen to him spout nonsense about American exceptionalism and think it means an American resurgence only underscores how easily he conned them.
 
Atheist 2020 said:
Supporting building the wall and supporting the military has a conflict of interest were you cannot support both. 1/3rd of the American public supports building the wall. East Germany built and managed the Berlin Wall were 2% of the population managed the wall and spied on its population to make sure they did not cross the boarder. It would cost billions of dollars to build and manage the wall. And, you will be spending billions of dollars to stop a mother and child from crossing the boarder. And, deporting a vast amount of the population because they crossed the boarder years ago. That society is a closed society.

On the other hand, we spend billions of dollars to build navy capital ships. We build ships, and they are carriers and other ships in a navy task force. In the past, we sent a carrier task force with fighter jets that cost millions of dollars loaded with thousands of dollars of weapons. And from time to time, we had a navy fighter jet to use their weapons to destroy a pick up truck. And we had the military show the video to the press and the general public. That society is a open society.

You cannot support a closed society and a open society at the same time. You cannot support a open society were the military will kill a single person in a pick up truck in a foreign country and a closed society with a boarder to prevent a mother and child from crossing the boarder. We are moving to a closed society, and we build the wall, and we end up spying on each other keeping the security we feel we need. Sooner or later a close society will collapse onto itself. On the other hand, with a open society, we are going to far with killing everyone we believe are terrorists. Using a navy jet from a navy carrier to kill one man driving a pick up truck only tells the world your going to lose the war. After the war in Europe after World War II, there was millions of people who supported NAZI Germany. We understood we could not arrest and place into prison everyone that made money during the NAZI era. On the other hand, we are spending millions of dollars to kill every single person we think are terrorists.

We are still a open society, but, we are miss-managing the outcome.
Click to expand...

And still...you give no evidence of the US declining.

Moving on...
 
Atheist 2020 said:
Even if Trump loses reelection in the 2020 election -- America is a declining world power. Trumps base is around 35%, and they will be around in the 2020's and the 2030's. If you scream build the wall, hoping that it would stop people coming to America: you are really dreaming. Second, if I am in a foreign country, and you scream build the wall, they are not impressed in there country to engage in trade with America: or willing to visit the United States. A European that is 30 years old or older, is very much a rare person if he or she has never visited a foreign country. And if you have not, your very much a social outcast within your country of birth.

Yes, America has a large military, and the United Kingdom and its empire had a large military in 1945 too. But, the empire is dead and right now the United Kingdom is on the march of breaking up when it leaves the European Union.
Click to expand...

Worse than a declining power, we are a society decline. Decline is evident in the quality of our leaders, our failing infrastructure, our collapsing middle class, education standards, the erosion of civil discourse, obesity rates. Our crude President is the face of it.
 
Last edited:
Mycroft said:
And still...you give no evidence of the US declining.

Moving on...
Click to expand...

Right now under Trump, we are moving to be a closed society. We are moving away from a open society. The reason why the United States is in decline, because we feel we have to kill every single terrorist. We are showing to the world, we are willing to kill a single guy in a pick up truck because we feel he or she is a terrorist. If I am from a NATO country, I see a society that uses its navy to kill someone in a pick-up truck and willing to show the footage with the press and the general public. It is time to reread 1984 again.

Trump talks about leaving NATO, telling NATO countries they need to spend 2% on their military. We are leaving agreements dealing global warming. We have left free trade agreements in the pacific. I support the European Union, and they are accepting that the United States is running away from its leadership role. Europe is looking at the United States, as a foolish government willing to toss away all the goodwill it has built since the end of World War II. Even if the Democrat's take over the White House in 2020, the damage Trump has done -- Europe or Asia will not run back to the United States asking for its leadership skills. They understand that a vast amount of its population want a closed society.

At one time, Republicans were the foreign policy party ... not today. With losing Vietnam, and losing the peace with two countries with governments we really do not like or understand. We are still at war, but, we only send a few military troops and we convince the press not to report it as being real. We are tired of war, and the longer we are fighting it only makes it more clear we are moving to be a closed society. And a closed society collapses onto itself.
 
JackA said:
Worse than a declining power, we are a society decline. Decline is evident in the quality of our leaders, our failing infrastructure, our collapsing middle class, education standards, the erosion of civil discourse, obesity rates. The President is the face of it.
Click to expand...

No, but liberals are the cause of it.
 
JackA said:
Worse than a declining power, we are a society decline. Decline is evident in the quality of our leaders, our failing infrastructure, our collapsing middle class, education standards, the erosion of civil discourse, obesity rates. The President is the face of it.
Click to expand...

Right now, if the rest of the world wanted to be like the United States it would take three earths to get that way. The problem is not with our leaders, its the theory with everyone asking if they will make money or lose money on the government program.
 
Atheist 2020 said:
Kennedy did not understand the wordings of German. There is something called a berliner. If Dunkin Donuts opened a store in Germany, you could order a berliner. It shocks me with the left talking about the saying, I am a berliner. Well, coffee and a berliner goes well together.
Click to expand...

Whatever the term 'Berliner' evokes, the Berlin Airlift was a shining moment in American history. It was an example of America at it's best.
 
smallvoice said:
No, but liberals are the cause of it.
Click to expand...

In political science, living in a democracy you are living as a liberal. From time to time I do study Plato, and reread the Republic. America is a open society, and a open society is a liberal society. If you really want to live in a conservative society like the conservative Plato, you might want to move to North Korea.
 
There will be less U.S. hegemony in the world in the coming decades, but it does not mean we will not be a major player. It does mean, however, we will be more balanced by other powers, like China and Russia.

It also depends on how you define "power". Economically, we are declining. So is Western Europe. The irony is that countries like China, India and Russia, and the South American Union will outflank us in the coming decades on a GDP basis. They have adopted capitalism and in some ways used it better than we have. China, for example, has put its culture as equally important to making money. The U.S. has done so through political force, but our business firms are still largely self-serving.

In terms of military power... it's hard to say that the U.S. will wane significantly in that department. A huge portion of our annual revenue is reinvested into the defense budget, more so than the next leading 10 countries. We will always have a technological edge, it looks like. The problem is that, geopolitically, we are going to have more rivals.

In my view, the best thing we can do for the coming decades is get really strong as a diplomatic and secular humanitarian power. It's not going to be easy for us to use hard power to bully the world; instead we will have to use a lot of finesse. Hopefully future generations of politicians will be more apt in that department than the current ones.

Domestically (internally), our country is falling apart. Our infrastructure is aging, our population has the highest debt per capita in the world, and we have the highest prison population. As JD Rockafeller said, "I don't want a nation of thinkers, I want a nation of workers." Our private sector is out of control and we need new regulations to shift the fiduciary responsibility toward bettering the country, rather than obscene profits. We also need better fiscal policy to manage household debt that is incurred through health and education training.

Our current household economic policies are sending the majority of our population on a fast track to indentured servitude. You can't bankrupt on a student loan, so you're basically a slave for life; yet if you don't have an education you will also be an economic slave. We need to fix that, preferably by returning to the pre-Reagan era student loan system.

Predatory economic and business laws created by corporate lobbying are making us a less attractive country for innovation. Our intellectual property laws need serious revision in order to spark a better innovative economy. An ownership period of 70 years is unacceptable.

The source of most of our problems is greed and money worship.

The top 6 things we could do right now to change things for the better:
1) Stop corporate lobbying / political donations. Further to that, reform government to decouple business interests from politics.
2) Return to the pre-Bush era tax cut system. Go after tax evaders and offshore accounts (like the Panama Papers showed us). Reclaim lost tax revenue.
3) Change student loan policy to include the options to default, apply for forgiveness, or repayment assistance based on % total income.
4) Reform the health care system to reduce bloated cost of everything, and create a single payer system.
5) Sponsor education programs related to the trades and put people to work repairing our nation's infrastructure.
6) Make property ownership for American citizens only.
 
Last edited:
Atheist 2020 said:
Right now under Trump, we are moving to be a closed society. We are moving away from a open society. The reason why the United States is in decline, because we feel we have to kill every single terrorist. We are showing to the world, we are willing to kill a single guy in a pick up truck because we feel he or she is a terrorist. If I am from a NATO country, I see a society that uses its navy to kill someone in a pick-up truck and willing to show the footage with the press and the general public. It is time to reread 1984 again.

Trump talks about leaving NATO, telling NATO countries they need to spend 2% on their military. We are leaving agreements dealing global warming. We have left free trade agreements in the pacific. I support the European Union, and they are accepting that the United States is running away from its leadership role. Europe is looking at the United States, as a foolish government willing to toss away all the goodwill it has built since the end of World War II. Even if the Democrat's take over the White House in 2020, the damage Trump has done -- Europe or Asia will not run back to the United States asking for its leadership skills. They understand that a vast amount of its population want a closed society.

At one time, Republicans were the foreign policy party ... not today. With losing Vietnam, and losing the peace with two countries with governments we really do not like or understand. We are still at war, but, we only send a few military troops and we convince the press not to report it as being real. We are tired of war, and the longer we are fighting it only makes it more clear we are moving to be a closed society. And a closed society collapses onto itself.
Click to expand...

You do realize, don't you, that NATO killed a lot of guys in pickup trucks in Libya...right? Is the EU declining, as well?

Sorry, but your nonsense STILL doesn't make any sense.

I've given you more chances than you deserve to support your contention. You've failed.

You are dismissed.
 
Grand Mal said:
Whatever the term 'Berliner' evokes, the Berlin Airlift was a shining moment in American history. It was an example of America at it's best.
Click to expand...

The Berlin Airlift, with a number of the children we killed their father during World War II. But a American in the military gave a child a candy bar -- making a orphan become a pro-American for the rest of their life. The grandchild of the child that got a candy bar, notice that America wants to build a wall to stop people. And that grandchild understands what happen with the Berlin Wall and the former East Germany.
 
Fledermaus said:
The US an empire?

Since when?
Click to expand...

bases55.jpg
 
Last edited:
Mycroft said:
You do realize, don't you, that NATO killed a lot of guys in pickup trucks in Libya...right? Is the EU declining, as well?

Sorry, but your nonsense STILL doesn't make any sense.

I've given you more chances than you deserve to support your contention. You've failed.

You are dismissed.
Click to expand...

I am not writing for you, because I have to say your a troll and your limited knowledge comes from a high school dropout. I am just proving to the rest of the viewers, that a troll as you is horrible to confront with solid information. You need to read two books from Karl Popper. Maybe not, because it was written at a college level. If I did see you at a bookstore, I think you would be in the children's section.
 
JackA said:
Worse than a declining power, we are a society decline. Decline is evident in the quality of our leaders, our failing infrastructure, our collapsing middle class, education standards, the erosion of civil discourse, obesity rates. Our crude President is the face of it.
Click to expand...

Nicely done. You managed, in my opinion, to sum up america in a few sentences. I think people are mistaking military power for the credibility america once had.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom