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Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

Casper said:
So who does it leave to pay the ever mounting debt trump is adding?
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Same people that are paying the doubling of debt Obama rang up. CBO has said it's projections of deficit this year and for the next ten it made last spring were too high:
Deficits. In CBO’s projections, the federal budget deficit is about $900 billion in 2019 and exceeds $1 trillion each year beginning in 2022. Over the coming decade, deficits (after adjustments to exclude shifts in the timing of certain payments) fluctuate between 4.1 percent and 4.7 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), well above the average over the past 50*years (see Chapter 1). CBO’s projection of the deficit for 2019 is now $75 billion less—and its projection of the cumulative deficit over the 2019–2028 period, $1.2 trillion less—than it was in spring 2018
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CBO also projects revenue as a percentage of GDP grow as well:

Revenues. In CBO’s projections, federal revenues rise from 16.5 percent of GDP in 2019 to 17.4 percent in 2025 and then grow more rapidly, reaching 18.3 percent of GDP near the end of the decade. The projected growth in revenues after 2025 is largely attributable to the scheduled expiration of nearly all of the individual income tax provisions of the 2017 tax act (see*Chapter 4).
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apdst said:
I'm referring purchases I make through my business.
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I'm talking about real workers (you know, most Americans), real wages, temporary tax cuts, and the increased cost of Chinese-made goods making for a negative cash flow increase for the year. And even THAT goes away in five years.
 
Bullseye said:
Same people that are paying the doubling of debt Obama rang up. CBO has said it's projections of deficit this year and for the next ten it made last spring were too high:
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We should all hope that's correct but roughly $700 of the $1,200B is just a technical change. We spent $100B on disaster relief and other emergency (disaster related, hurricanes etc.) spending for the period used by CBO in 2018, but only $2B in the period used for this most recent forecast.

CBO also projects revenue as a percentage of GDP grow as well:
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Yes, amazing, tax cuts expire, revenues go up, deficits go down. Who could have guessed?
 
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JasperL said:
We should all hope that's correct but roughly $700 of the $1,200B is just a technical change. We spent $100B on disaster relief and other emergency (disaster related, hurricanes etc.) spending for the period used by CBO in 2018, but only $2B in the period used for this most recent forecast.



Yes, amazing, tax cuts expire, revenues go up, deficits go down. Who could have guessed?
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tax cuts can be made permanent - dems didn't want to.
 
Bullseye said:
tax cuts can be made permanent - dems didn't want to.
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What are you talking about? The plan that passed was the Republican proposal, and it passed because they had the majority. They could have implemented those cuts being permanent when they wrote the damned bill. THEY chose to let the middle class cuts expire and not those for the wealthy and corporations. Thats because they know eventually someone is gonna have to pay for them, and they chose to let the little people do it.

Imagine that.
 
bullseyelqcs said:
What are you talking about? The plan that passed was the Republican proposal, and it passed because they had the majority. They could have implemented those cuts being permanent when they wrote the damned bill. THEY chose to let the middle class cuts expire and not those for the wealthy and corporations. Thats because they know eventually someone is gonna have to pay for them, and they chose to let the little people do it.

Imagine that.
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Except Senate rules wouldn't allow tax or spending that increased deficit to run longer than ten years.
 
Bullseye said:
Except Senate rules wouldn't allow tax or spending that increased deficit to run longer than ten years.
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If that is the case, then how exactly did they manage to shoe horn the permanence of the upper class and corporate into the bill?

The answer, of course, is exactly what I said. They could "afford" to make them permanent because they sunset the middle and lower class cuts, which will end up raising the revenue, thus not violating the rule you bring up. Interestingly, they didn't even give the full 10 years to the lower classes. Imagine that.

This **** is not rocket science.
 
Fletch said:
Well, you would be wrong. If Mueller comes up with evidence that Trump did something nefarious with Russia during the campaign, I will not support him. As far as your number of indictments goes, of the 35, 27 were of Russians who were said to have no links to anyone in the Trump camp. Manafort and Gates were indicted for things they did before they even met Trump. There are really only 3 indictments that hit close to home for Trump: Flynn, Cohen and Stone. Flynn was for a lie he told to the FBI about things that took place AFTER the election. So horrible were his crimes that the Mueller team is asking that he be sentenced to zero jail time. Stone is in trouble for lying about contacts he had with Wikileaks--which werent a crime to begin with. That leaves Cohen. That may lead somewhere, I dont know. He hasnt been charged with collusion or conspiracy or treason so that may lead nowhere as well. But until Mueller concludes this thing, we have no way of knowing. But if Trump is 'an agent of a foreign power' as many on the left claim, then every moment he sits in office endangers the country. If true, the outrage should be focused Mueller for not getting to the bottom of this much, much sooner.
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If all your neighbors live in a swamp, where do you live?


Lot's of criminality surrounding trump. Doesn't say much for Trump.

I dont care what crime Trump has committed, but if he as committed lots of crimes, (probably related to money ) whatever they are, especially over a long period, he shouldn't be president. That's what i want out of the Mueller investigation, to find out if our president is a crook, or not.
 
Idiometer said:
Conspiracy, lying to the feds, committing campaign fraud, etc . . . all of those actual felonies fall under an umbrella of Trump and friends behavior, starting pretty much from when he announced his candidacy in 2015, and the umbrella is called collusion. Do you get it? Confer with this Russian, hire that guy because of his past known association with Russians, use this guy to manage your campaign because of his association with Ukrainians who are associated with Russia and Putin, and so on. It ADDS UP to collusion, followed by all the attempts to cover it up, all the lies for which Trump associates are copping plea deals. Collusion, with all of its many subtitles. Collusion is the frying pan, and the rest are nice, big, juicy slices of bacon.
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No, it adds up to CT nuttery.
 
Idiometer said:
Trump and congressional Republicans passed this tax cut for the rich.
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Not true. I got one. All my employees got one and we are all middle class.
The House under the Dems can vote to make your cuts permanent,
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Didnt you just say only the rich got a tax cut?
but the GOP-led Senate will not go along with it.
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And why wouldnt they go along with it?
And even if they could, how does that make it okay for Trump and friends to have passed this pathetic attempt at trickle down economics in the first place? Do you ENJOY getting screwed by the very politicians you publicly defend? They are laughing at you!

:moon:
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How did I get, or anyone else get screwed?
 
Fletch said:
Not true. I got one. All my employees got one and we are all middle class.Didnt you just say only the rich got a tax cut?And why wouldnt they go along with it?How did I get, or anyone else get screwed?
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Your paltry little tax cut was only included in that bill because they couldn't sell it to their constituencies without throwing crumbs to us little people. That's why the cut phases out in 2025. Only the rich, like corporate CEOs and other big corporation stakeholders got a significant cut, and theirs is permanent. Plus, it has already added $113 billion to the deficit, or 17%.

How the Trump Tax Cut Is Helping to Push the Federal Deficit to $1 Trillion - The New York Times

Trump's Additional Budget Deficit Was Largely Due To The Corporate Tax Cut

And they did not cut spending, like the Republican Party always says they're going to do, they've added to it, and Trump is demanding more for a wall that most Americans don't support, not on our dime.

The GOP/Trump tax reform bill helps corporations and the already rich. You and I? Not so much, and only long enough to dupe people into thinking that the bill was a good thing.
 
Idiometer said:
I'm talking about real workers (you know, most Americans), real wages, temporary tax cuts, and the increased cost of Chinese-made goods making for a negative cash flow increase for the year. And even THAT goes away in five years.
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I'm a real worker. There are millions of citizens of the republic, just like me.
 
Bullseye said:
tax cuts can be made permanent - dems didn't want to.
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It's really amazing. The GOP jams through tax cuts without wanting or needing or getting a single Democratic vote, and the right wing lemmings still blame Democrats for everything wrong with them.

You don't even identify as a Republican, so why are you doing the "The buck stops WAY OVER THERE =========>" routine on the GOP tax cuts?
 
JasperL said:
It's really amazing. The GOP jams through tax cuts without wanting or needing or getting a single Democratic vote, and the right wing lemmings still blame Democrats for everything wrong with them.

You don't even identify as a Republican, so why are you doing the "The buck stops WAY OVER THERE =========>" routine on the GOP tax cuts?
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Because I believe in facts and logic rather than bat-****-crazy Republicanophobia. A year ago you guys were screaming like scalded cats that the cuts had been passed and predicting economic Armageddon and now you're whining because they aren't permanent. Consistency is not one of the LW's prominent traits.
 
Bullseye said:
Because I believe in facts and logic rather than bat-****-crazy Republicanophobia. A year ago you guys were screaming like scalded cats that the cuts had been passed and predicting economic Armageddon and now you're whining because they aren't permanent. Consistency is not one of the LW's prominent traits.
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The fact is the GOP authored the bill and rammed it through using reconciliation and didn't need, want or get a single Democratic vote. And yet here you are blaming Democrats......

I don't know who "you guys" are but I certainly never predicted "economic Armageddon" as a result of the tax bill. I won't bother going back and reviewing my comments, but lots of those opposed to that POS bill pointed out at the time the permanent status of the tax cuts for the donor class and that the tax cuts for the proles started phasing out in year 3 as I recall and were fully repealed by year 9 in a form of budgetary gimmickry. More facts.

FWIW, my main concern about the TCJA as a whole was it was and is incredibly fiscally reckless. In a period of economic expansion, strong labor market, booming stock market, low interest rates and record profits for the Fortune 500 we decided to throw MORE fiscal stimulus into the economy. It was stupid. That's the time to reign in spending and increase taxes to lower deficits not explode them. The GOP did the opposite, because of course they did. Fiscal Hawk and Serious Policy Wonk Ryan did what we all knew he and the rest of the GOP would do which is pay off their donors. That's the entire rationale for that POS tax bill that we got.

No doubt we needed to lower the top rates on C corps, but that could have been done cheaper, and offset with other tax increases or spending cuts. The GOP said, "**** that, let's put it all on the credit card!"
 
How can anyone still be surprised when a GOP tax plan hurts them? Even if you got the same return as when Obama was president, there is a huge increase in the deficit to "pay" for it.

When will Americana wake to get the reality that liberal tax and spend is better than GOP borrow and steal.
 
JasperL said:
The fact is the GOP authored the bill and rammed it through using reconciliation and didn't need, want or get a single Democratic vote. And yet here you are blaming Democrats.....
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Do realize what you just said? The GOP KNEW that Dems would block the bill if it went the normal route and pulled an end run which required making the cuts temporary, so YEAH, the Dems forced the cuts to be temporary. Thanks for supporting my point.
JasperL said:
I don't know who "you guys" are but I certainly never predicted "economic Armageddon" as a result of the tax bill. I won't bother going back and reviewing my comments, but lots of those opposed to that POS bill pointed out at the time the permanent status of the tax cuts for the donor class and that the tax cuts for the proles started phasing out in year 3 as I recall and were fully repealed by year 9 in a form of budgetary gimmickry. More facts.
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"You guys" are the rabid left in general. And you reinforce your membership therein with the idiotic "donor class" non sequitur.
JasperL said:
FWIW, my main concern about the TCJA as a whole was it was and is incredibly fiscally reckless. In a period of economic expansion, strong labor market, booming stock market, low interest rates and record profits for the Fortune 500 we decided to throw MORE fiscal stimulus into the economy. It was stupid. That's the time to reign in spending and increase taxes to lower deficits not explode them. The GOP did the opposite, because of course they did. Fiscal Hawk and Serious Policy Wonk Ryan did what we all knew he and the rest of the GOP would do which is pay off their donors. That's the entire rationale for that POS tax bill that we got.
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LOL, the economy was "expending at an anemic 1.5-2.0%, e.g. it barely had a pulse. Your "it was good enough" thesis is silly. The labor market was mediocre as evidenced by the huge numbers of people who have come out of the woodwork to rejoin the labor force, the huge number of manufacturing jobs (that would "never come back") we've added, real wage growth starting to appear, and maybe other data.
JasperL said:
No doubt we needed to lower the top rates on C corps, but that could have been done cheaper, and offset with other tax increases or spending cuts. The GOP said, "**** that, let's put it all on the credit card!"
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When was the last "spending cuts" that were large enough to make the economy gauge needle even shudder?
 
That Trumpers can be mugged by the GOP and always profess to enjoy it amazes me. S&M?
 
Bullseye said:
Do realize what you just said? The GOP KNEW that Dems would block the bill if it went the normal route and pulled an end run which required making the cuts temporary, so YEAH, the Dems forced the cuts to be temporary. Thanks for supporting my point.
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Reconciliation didn't force that at all. They could have cut spending for example, or provided sunsets on the donor class tax cuts. The options were unlimited, and the GOP chose to screw the middle class.

"You guys" are the rabid left in general. And you reinforce your membership therein with the idiotic "donor class" non sequitur.
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I'm not responsible what some figment of your imagination might have said.

The donor class comment isn't a non-sequitur, see, “My donors are basically saying, ‘Get it done or don’t ever call me again,’”

LOL, the economy was "expending at an anemic 1.5-2.0%, e.g. it barely had a pulse. Your "it was good enough" thesis is silly. The labor market was mediocre as evidenced by the huge numbers of people who have come out of the woodwork to rejoin the labor force, the huge number of manufacturing jobs (that would "never come back") we've added, real wage growth starting to appear, and maybe other data.
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That's all nonsense. None of that was true a year ago when the tax cuts were passed. We were at what economists call full employment. If you can't reduce the deficit at full employment, when can you? Other than when a Democrat is in the WH and has been handed a Great Recession I mean....

When was the last "spending cuts" that were large enough to make the economy gauge needle even shudder?
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The GOP keep promising them and not delivering, so you have a point. They're dishonest....we knew that.
 
JasperL said:
Reconciliation didn't force that at all. They could have cut spending for example, or provided sunsets on the donor class tax cuts. The options were unlimited, and the GOP chose to screw the middle class.
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Bull****. Businesses aren't going to relocate back to the US for a few years. The GOP said at the time they were forced to sunset the individual rates because of Senate rules and intended to make then permanent as soon as possible.


JasperL said:
I'm not responsible what some figment of your imagination might have said.

The donor class comment isn't a non-sequitur, see, “My donors are basically saying, ‘Get it done or don’t ever call me again,’”
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Which proves what?


JasperL said:
That's all nonsense. None of that was true a year ago when the tax cuts were passed. We were at what economists call full employment. If you can't reduce the deficit at full employment, when can you? Other than when a Democrat is in the WH and has been handed a Great Recession I mean....
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And yet from "full employment" we went on to add a couple of million more jobs.

JasperL said:
The GOP keep promising them and not delivering, so you have a point. They're dishonest....we knew that.
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LOL, what utter blather. :eek:
 
Bullseye said:
Bull****. Businesses aren't going to relocate back to the US for a few years. The GOP said at the time they were forced to sunset the individual rates because of Senate rules and intended to make then permanent as soon as possible.
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Of course, they also promised that in 2018 they'd address the spending cuts, but that was a lie of course. It's politically easier to borrow the tax cuts, make the donors happy, and blame Democrats for the expiring tax cuts on the middle class. And you're buying their BS.

Which proves what?
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"The donor class comment isn't a non-sequitur...."

And yet from "full employment" we went on to add a couple of million more jobs.
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I don't know what your argument is. There was ZERO economic need for more fiscal stimulus a year ago. The tax cuts poured gasoline on a fire burning nicely at that time. What happens WHEN we have the next recession?

LOL, what utter blather. :eek:
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If pointing out years of broken promises is "utter blather" then OK. Call it what you want. The GOP promised to reign in spending, and instead cut taxes and increased spending. Not a surprise to anyone paying attention, but maybe you don't care about their lies. I don't any more because their promises don't mean anything any more.
 
OscarLevant said:
If all your neighbors live in a swamp, where do you live?


Lot's of criminality surrounding trump. Doesn't say much for Trump.

I dont care what crime Trump has committed, but if he as committed lots of crimes, (probably related to money ) whatever they are, especially over a long period, he shouldn't be president. That's what i want out of the Mueller investigation, to find out if our president is a crook, or not.
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Thats not how our justice system works. You dont pick a guy and investigate his entire life to see if he has done anything wrong. Somehow I doubt you would want that done to you. But because you hate Trump, you are fine with employing fascist tactics
 
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