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Thread: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You misstated GDP growth, used 2016 instead of 2017, and didn't mention the stock market, which boomed in the year prior to the tax cut.



    Well, then we can never raise taxes or cut spending, because there will never be even a day when the economy isn't in recession or potentially in recession at some point in the future. Terrific. Pres. AOC has a license to borrow at will!



    If you can't raise taxes or cut spending when the economy is booming, and we need to add to the deficit to make sure the economy stays booming, then there is just never a good time for fiscal restraint, because that will lower economic growth in the short term. That's how fiscal policy works.

    And I don't know where to cut spending - ask the GOP. They've been promising you these spending cuts for years and years. Frankly I'd start addressing the deficits with higher taxes. That's ultimately how you get the public behind spending cuts - make them pay for spending with taxes. Seems obvious to me. If not, why would the public ever go along with spending cuts if Congress is confronted with deficits for as far as the eye can see and makes the deficits WORSE by handing out candy to the donor class? The average American wants candy too!

    And, no, one if the goals was absolutely NOT to raise revenue, unless it was opposite day and tax rate CUTS were intended to increase tax collections. Was it opposite day on the day of the vote? I don't recall that....



    No, you've made your priorities clear. We must never threaten economic growth by raising taxes or cutting spending. In fact in a boom period we should cut taxes and throw $100s of billions in borrowed money into the economy to make sure the boom continues. Deficits don't make your list.
    Now you just flat lying. I have NEVER said that spending should not be cut. Anyway, you're getting more and ridiculous with each post and I have better things to do than try and improve your economic knowledge, so I'm done with this conversation.

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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    Thats not how our justice system works. You dont pick a guy and investigate his entire life to see if he has done anything wrong. Somehow I doubt you would want that done to you. But because you hate Trump, you are fine with employing fascist tactics
    LOL. Somewhere Hillary is LHMFAO at the newfound concern on the right wing for boundless, endless investigations.

    Too bad for Trump that lying about.....well, everything, including the Trump towers, plural, has a cost and that cost is no one believes anything he says and will need the documents. Not divesting has a cost, which is disclosure. Giving the middle finger to the most basic steps to eliminate the massive conflicts of interest he has in his businesses has a cost, which is disclosure. Etc.

    And what exactly is "fascist" about Congress doing its duty for oversight of a corrupt, dishonest President with a history of bad business practices and who surrounded himself with an all-star cast of thugs and criminals?

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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    Now you just flat lying. I have NEVER said that spending should not be cut.
    No, you just said that we needed fiscal stimulus in a boom to make sure the boom continued. Well, spending cuts are fiscal drags in the short term. Same as tax increases. Tax increases and spending cuts work the same way on the economy - lower deficit spending, which lowers the economic boost of more borrowed money, dampening growth at least in the short term. It's math and multipliers, and if you want fiscal stimulus, the multipliers are much higher for many kinds of spending than they are for tax cuts for the donor class - several times higher in fact.

    Point is if what you want is the economy to keep booming, a better option is more EBT, expand EITC, expand Medicaid or make the subsidies for ACA more generous. Those all get money in the hands of people who spend every dime nearly immediately, which boosts business revenues, profits, etc. A lot of tax cuts just go to more stock purchases.... Nothing bad about that, but the spending at the mall and grocery store has a bigger impact.

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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    LOL. Somewhere Hillary is LHMFAO at the newfound concern on the right wing for boundless, endless investigations.

    Too bad for Trump that lying about.....well, everything, including the Trump towers, plural, has a cost and that cost is no one believes anything he says and will need the documents. Not divesting has a cost, which is disclosure. Giving the middle finger to the most basic steps to eliminate the massive conflicts of interest he has in his businesses has a cost, which is disclosure. Etc.

    And what exactly is "fascist" about Congress doing its duty for oversight of a corrupt, dishonest President with a history of bad business practices and who surrounded himself with an all-star cast of thugs and criminals?
    My comment wasnt referring to congress, it was referring to Mueller, so your Hillary whataboutism is a fail.
    "The Special Counsel's investigation did not find that the Trump campaign or anyone associated with it conspired or coordinated with Russia in its efforts to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election"

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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    No, you just said that we needed fiscal stimulus in a boom to make sure the boom continued. Well, spending cuts are fiscal drags in the short term. Same as tax increases. Tax increases and spending cuts work the same way on the economy - lower deficit spending, which lowers the economic boost of more borrowed money, dampening growth at least in the short term. It's math and multipliers, and if you want fiscal stimulus, the multipliers are much higher for many kinds of spending than they are for tax cuts for the donor class - several times higher in fact.

    Point is if what you want is the economy to keep booming, a better option is more EBT, expand EITC, expand Medicaid or make the subsidies for ACA more generous. Those all get money in the hands of people who spend every dime nearly immediately, which boosts business revenues, profits, etc. A lot of tax cuts just go to more stock purchases.... Nothing bad about that, but the spending at the mall and grocery store has a bigger impact.
    They way to create and continue an economic boom is to put money in the hands of economic decision makers; businesses, investors, consumers, entrepreneurs and employees and let them DECIDE where it goes rather than give it to a horde of unaccountable bureaucrats spending it on questionably effective government programs.

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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    They way to create and continue an economic boom is to put money in the hands of economic decision makers; businesses, investors, consumers, entrepreneurs and employees and let them DECIDE where it goes rather than give it to a horde of unaccountable bureaucrats spending it on questionably effective government programs.
    That's fine with me - just pay for it with spending cuts! If not, and we're just handing out borrowed money, then if you increase EITC, that goes into the hands of consumers who will spend it nearly immediately, and that business can then expand or not, etc. All those are economic decision makers, same as the guys who fly around in private jets.

    They and the Fortune 500 were already sitting on piles of cash, worth $trillions cumulatively, and don't start new businesses because they make no sense given current levels of demand.

    And if there is anything "questionably effective" it's MOR TAX CUTS! Since Reagan we've brought the marginal rates way down, C corps pay an ever dwindling share of our tax base, we've incentivized capital gains with very low rates for decades, cratered the estate tax, and all that has worked beautifully to increase profits going to the Fortune 500 and the top 1% and above, but not so well for workers. So I can't see the evidence that more tax cuts is the missing link.

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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenbeard View Post
    The GOP's greatest strategist once again offers up a master class in one-dimensional chess.

    Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster
    that is because people are stupid. refund =/= to tax liability.
    tax refund also is not always equal to lowered taxes.

    What you have to compare is your tax liablity from 2017 to 2018.

    if you owed 5000 in taxes during 2017 and only owe 3500 in taxes in 2018
    then you received a tax cut.

    now the refund part.

    most people did not adjust their tax withholdings at the beginning of the year.
    refunds/owe is based on how much you paid in taxes through the year.

    if you paid more than you were supposed to then you get a refund.
    this does not change your tax liability.

    if you did not pay enough then you owe taxes.
    again still does not change your tax liability.

    most people so an increase in take home pay but that could affect their end of the year tax filings as they didn't pay enough.

    it is only an issue because people are so uneducated these days that they think refund = lower taxes.

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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Luckyone View Post
    To begin with, the tax cuts were mostly a scam on the middle class to give the rich the big cut on tax breaks. As it is, the increase in costs of products bought (because of the Tariff war) and the increase in inflation, means the middle class got crumbs while the rich got the entire pie.

    It is all a scam on the middle class to feed the rich. That is what it is.
    lies do not well go over well. this is a lie you should probably stop.

    so what is the difference in tax refund and tax liability?
    please tell us.

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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    That's fine with me - just pay for it with spending cuts! If not, and we're just handing out borrowed money, then if you increase EITC, that goes into the hands of consumers who will spend it nearly immediately, and that business can then expand or not, etc. All those are economic decision makers, same as the guys who fly around in private jets.
    It doesn't have to be "paid for" the growing economy will generate additional tax revenue.
    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL
    They and the Fortune 500 were already sitting on piles of cash, worth $trillions cumulatively, and don't start new businesses because they make no sense given current levels of demand.
    Actually, a huge percentage of companies are deploying their cash reserves in wages, bonuses and business expansion.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL
    And if there is anything "questionably effective" it's MOR TAX CUTS! Since Reagan we've brought the marginal rates way down, C corps pay an ever dwindling share of our tax base, we've incentivized capital gains with very low rates for decades, cratered the estate tax, and all that has worked beautifully to increase profits going to the Fortune 500 and the top 1% and above, but not so well for workers. So I can't see the evidence that more tax cuts is the missing link.
    Workers that continue improving the worth to their employers have done quite well. Those that punch the time clock twice a day go home, dry a six-pack of Budweiser and what Survivor reruns - not so much.

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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    It doesn't have to be "paid for" the growing economy will generate additional tax revenue.
    Economic growth has not approached the 4.5% that Trump and the GOP promised (and considered necessary for flat/negative deficit numbers).

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    Actually, a huge percentage of companies are deploying their cash reserves in wages, bonuses and business expansion.
    Most of the corporate tax windfall is being applied to stock/share buybacks, raises for the corporate hierarchy, mergers/buyouts, and automation.


    As president, Trump has steadfastly refused to accept his responsibility to do anything about the Russian assault on our democratic institutions. This is a dereliction of duty, and it continues even now.

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