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Thread: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

  1. #151
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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Valley View Post
    That Trumpers can be mugged by the GOP and always profess to enjoy it amazes me. S&M?
    How was I 'mugged' by the GOP?
    "The Special Counsel's investigation did not find that the Trump campaign or anyone associated with it conspired or coordinated with Russia in its efforts to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election"

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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Idiometer View Post
    Your paltry little tax cut was only included in that bill because they couldn't sell it to their constituencies without throwing crumbs to us little people. That's why the cut phases out in 2025. Only the rich, like corporate CEOs and other big corporation stakeholders got a significant cut, and theirs is permanent. Plus, it has already added $113 billion to the deficit, or 17%.

    How the Trump Tax Cut Is Helping to Push the Federal Deficit to $1 Trillion - The New York Times

    Trump's Additional Budget Deficit Was Largely Due To The Corporate Tax Cut

    And they did not cut spending, like the Republican Party always says they're going to do, they've added to it, and Trump is demanding more for a wall that most Americans don't support, not on our dime.

    The GOP/Trump tax reform bill helps corporations and the already rich. You and I? Not so much, and only long enough to dupe people into thinking that the bill was a good thing.
    My tax cut wasnt paltry and if you are suddenly worried about the deficits now that the biggest deficit spender in US history, Barack Obama, is out of office, you can relax. Democrats now run the House so we can expect all the fiscal belt tightening you could ever dream of.
    "The Special Counsel's investigation did not find that the Trump campaign or anyone associated with it conspired or coordinated with Russia in its efforts to influence the 2016 U.S. presidential election"

  3. #153
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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Of course, they also promised that in 2018 they'd address the spending cuts, but that was a lie of course. It's politically easier to borrow the tax cuts, make the donors happy, and blame Democrats for the expiring tax cuts on the middle class. And you're buying their BS.
    Oh, jeez, they "promised", first time any politicians EVER promised to "address spending cuts". Horrors.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL
    "The donor class comment isn't a non-sequitur...."
    Maybe not, there are definitely some LW money bag types donating for no other reason but ideology and TDS. In fact the LW donors dominate the top donors list.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL
    I don't know what your argument is. There was ZERO economic need for more fiscal stimulus a year ago. The tax cuts poured gasoline on a fire burning nicely at that time. What happens WHEN we have the next recession?
    My argument is simply that the economy as of 2016 was on it's last gasps - growth less than 1.6% and declining. Theoretical "full employment" ONLY because so many people had dropped out of the work force. The fact that the economy has boomed and is growing steadily totally disproves your "there was ZERO economic need" for action.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL
    If pointing out years of broken promises is "utter blather" then OK. Call it what you want. The GOP promised to reign in spending, and instead cut taxes and increased spending. Not a surprise to anyone paying attention, but maybe you don't care about their lies. I don't any more because their promises don't mean anything any more.
    This is a silly argument. It's like a big "Nuh-uh" you have to cling to to avoid admitting the tax cuts are pumping up the economy with more jobs, more business expansion, more job availability, a half-million new manufacturing jobs, that your hero said where never coming back, now contributing to the economics. And all you can cling to is campaign rhetoric.

  4. #154
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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I'm a real worker. There are millions of citizens of the republic, just like me.
    Never said otherwise ... just trying (vainly) to point out to you that your tax cut, my tax cut, nearly everyone's tax cuts are temporary, but for big, extremely rich corporations, and the people who run them and/or own them, the billions per year that they are now getting in reduced taxes is permanent.
    "If everything is under control, you're going too slow." -- Mario Andretti

  5. #155
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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    My argument is simply that the economy as of 2016 was on it's last gasps - growth less than 1.6% and declining. Theoretical "full employment" ONLY because so many people had dropped out of the work force. The fact that the economy has boomed and is growing steadily totally disproves your "there was ZERO economic need" for action.
    The tax cuts passed in December 2017. This is a labor market gasping for air after years of steady growth.

    latest_numbers_LNS14000000_2009_2019_all_period_M01_data.gif

    Unemployment rate was 4.1%. Real GDP growth in 3rd quarter 2017 was 2.8%. It was 3% in the 2nd quarter. The Dow returned about 25% in 2017.

    So why are you trying to gaslight me with nonsense that anyone with google can prove is nonsense. There was no need for fiscal stimulus in 2017.

    This is a silly argument. It's like a big "Nuh-uh" you have to cling to to avoid admitting the tax cuts are pumping up the economy with more jobs, more business expansion, more job availability, a half-million new manufacturing jobs, that your hero said where never coming back, now contributing to the economics. And all you can cling to is campaign rhetoric.
    OK, so no one cares about deficits or debt. I'll hold you to that next time the GOP starts putting out scare mongering stories about inflation is going to kill us! BUY GOLD! etc...

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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Idiometer View Post
    Never said otherwise ... just trying (vainly) to point out to you that your tax cut, my tax cut, nearly everyone's tax cuts are temporary, but for big, extremely rich corporations, and the people who run them and/or own them, the billions per year that they are now getting in reduced taxes is permanent.
    Actually, no. Business rates were made permanent, but the people who run and own them pay PERSONAL income taxes just like you and me.

  7. #157
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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Idiometer View Post
    Never said otherwise ... just trying (vainly) to point out to you that your tax cut, my tax cut, nearly everyone's tax cuts are temporary, but for big, extremely rich corporations, and the people who run them and/or own them, the billions per year that they are now getting in reduced taxes is permanent.
    My tax cut will last as long as I'm in my current employment status, or until the Democrats **** us over. I'm guessing my tax bill will be about 6 grand lower this year. I know that's chump change to a big-money-grip like you, but that's a big deal to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    You people are my problem. You’re a major component of what’s wrong with this country.
    It's more important to be morally right than factually correct - Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The tax cuts passed in December 2017. This is a labor market gasping for air after years of steady growth.

    latest_numbers_LNS14000000_2009_2019_all_period_M01_data.gif
    Nonsense.
    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL
    Unemployment rate was 4.1%. Real GDP growth in 3rd quarter 2017 was 2.8%. It was 3% in the 2nd quarter. The Dow returned about 25% in 2017.
    So what? We already addressed the unemployment rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL
    So why are you trying to gaslight me with nonsense that anyone with google can prove is nonsense. There was no need for fiscal stimulus in 2017.
    Seriously? You're going to claim a year's results is enough to say "well, that's it"? Tax cuts were not done as a "fiscal stimulus" they were done to ensure continuing economic progress and prosperity.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL
    OK, so no one cares about deficits or debt.
    Where did I say anything about not caring about deficits or debts? One of the goals of the tax bill was increased revenues. But enlighten us - exactly where would you like to see deficit changing spending cuts?
    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL
    I'll hold you to that next time the GOP starts putting out scare mongering stories about inflation is going to kill us! BUY GOLD! etc...
    ]Now you're trotting out mindless strawmen?

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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    My tax cut wasnt paltry and if you are suddenly worried about the deficits now that the biggest deficit spender in US history, Barack Obama, is out of office, you can relax. Democrats now run the House so we can expect all the fiscal belt tightening you could ever dream of.
    Bull****.

    US Deficit by President: What Budgets Hide

    Scroll down, if you don't like to read, and find the "List of Presidents' Budget Deficits by Fiscal Year" topic. Read those lists. Yes, Obama was foced by inherited circumstances to increase the deficit in order to stave off total economic collapse, you'll see that by 2015, the defict was down from the $1.547 trillion to $438 billion. Now, thanks to Trump and the GOP, it's back up to $984 billion.

    Your tax cut was most definitely paltry compare to the cuts that Corporate America received, and their cut doesn't phase out in 2025.

    Look at that list again ... other than Eisenhower, how many Republican presidents left office with even one year of budget surplus under their belts? Now, tell me again who the big spenders really are. (And yes, I know that the party majority in congress makes a difference as to what economic policies are enacted, but that just makes it a miracle that Obama managed to reduce the deficit as much as he did in spite of congressional Republicans.)
    "If everything is under control, you're going too slow." -- Mario Andretti

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    Re: Trump Tax Cuts Are (Probably) About to Become a Political Disaster

    Quote Originally Posted by Bullseye View Post
    Nonsense.
    So what? We already addressed the unemployment rate.
    You misstated GDP growth, used 2016 instead of 2017, and didn't mention the stock market, which boomed in the year prior to the tax cut.

    Seriously? You're going to claim a year's results is enough to say "well, that's it"? Tax cuts were not done as a "fiscal stimulus" they were done to ensure continuing economic progress and prosperity.
    Well, then we can never raise taxes or cut spending, because there will never be even a day when the economy isn't in recession or potentially in recession at some point in the future. Terrific. Pres. AOC has a license to borrow at will!

    Where did I say anything about not caring about deficits or debts? One of the goals of the tax bill was increased revenues. But enlighten us - exactly where would you like to see deficit changing spending cuts?
    If you can't raise taxes or cut spending when the economy is booming, and we need to add to the deficit to make sure the economy stays booming, then there is just never a good time for fiscal restraint, because that will lower economic growth in the short term. That's how fiscal policy works.

    And I don't know where to cut spending - ask the GOP. They've been promising you these spending cuts for years and years. Frankly I'd start addressing the deficits with higher taxes. That's ultimately how you get the public behind spending cuts - make them pay for spending with taxes. Seems obvious to me. If not, why would the public ever go along with spending cuts if Congress is confronted with deficits for as far as the eye can see and makes the deficits WORSE by handing out candy to the donor class? The average American wants candy too!

    And, no, one if the goals was absolutely NOT to raise revenue, unless it was opposite day and tax rate CUTS were intended to increase tax collections. Was it opposite day on the day of the vote? I don't recall that....

    Now you're trotting out mindless strawmen?
    No, you've made your priorities clear. We must never threaten economic growth by raising taxes or cutting spending. In fact in a boom period we should cut taxes and throw $100s of billions in borrowed money into the economy to make sure the boom continues. Deficits don't make your list.

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