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Thread: Should we pay people who are unwilling to work? AOC thinks so.

  1. #71
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    Re: Should we pay people who are unwilling to work? AOC thinks so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    look at the chart again.
    Single-payer's champions generally paint a lovely picture of healthcare utopia. Patients go to see the doctor of their choice whenever they like, get treatment, and leave the clinic without paying a cent. No copays, no deductibles, no cost-sharing, and no referrals -- health care is "free" at the point of service.


    In reality, health care doesn't magically become free; people just pay for it outside the doctor's office, in the form of higher taxes.

    Many Democrats have walked back their enthusiasm for single-payer after getting a look at the just how much public money they'd have to come up with.

    Last month in North Carolina, Democratic State Representative Verla Insko moved to kill her own pro-single-payer bill. An assessment from the state legislature's Fiscal Research Division pegged the cost of single-payer at $70 billion, $42 billion of which would have to come from the state. That latter figure is almost twice the state budget.
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypi.../#3247b62b56f3

    You're enamoured by charts that show only the rosey picture you want to see.
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    Re: Should we pay people who are unwilling to work? AOC thinks so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    lol

    Try again. All those nations that pay less for care have UHC / socialized medicine. They are more efficient for numerous reasons:

    • The UHC system has a very large number of patients, meaning they have a very strong negotiating position with pharmaceuticals.
    If i am a pharmaceutical company i don't care how many patients you have. the price is the price. if you don't like the price you don't get my drug.

    • The UHC system is paying doctors directly. I.e. they cut out the middle layers, such as insurers or hospitals.
    Sure what doctor is going to work for 20-40% less than what they make now?
    would you work for 20-40% less to do your job?
    if you say no then why would you expect them too?

    • Most UHC systems can evaluate pharmaceuticals and procedures for effectiveness. This means they don't get suckered into paying top dollar for generic drugs that have a trivial tweak to re-establish a patent.
    the government can't do that now with the stuff they do cover what makes you think they can handle the entire country?

    • Standard markets drive efficiency by encouraging transparency. However, that's not really possible with medical care. If you're having a heart attack, you're not going to have time to comparison shop, and it would be downright idiotic to delay care by traveling 30 extra minutes because St Luke's says it's having a sale on bypass surgeries.
    This is the first correct thing you said. More medical transparency is needed. the biggest cost to medical in this country are the drug middlemen and the hospital charge master DB's.

    • Government systems tend to be more transparent than private ones. Even the attempts to make US systems more transparent, like *COUGH* the Trump administration requiring hospitals to publish their list costs for procedures -- a) require regulation, and b) don't work because the system isn't designed to provide consumers with information. Medical costs are designed around negotiations with insurers.
    [/QUOTE]

    LMAO this is 100% wrong. obamacare was supposed to cost less than 1 trillion it is way above that and continues to get more expensive.
    No the hospitals know exactly what the cost of a procedure is.
    that is why when you call and tell them you want to pay the cash price without insurance they charge you 200 for that CT instead of 1000.

    amazing how that works.

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    Re: Should we pay people who are unwilling to work? AOC thinks so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visbek View Post
    And yet, Medicare -- which is a government health care system -- is one of the most popular government programs. "Medicare For All" is polling very high, pushing 70%. Hmmmmmm.



    Sorry not sorry, but those claims are bull****.

    Overall, wait times in the US are the same as everywhere else. Anyone who needs urgent care gets it right away. As a result, health care outcomes in nations with UHC are as good, if not better, than the US. E.g. infant mortality is higher in the US than almost every nation in Europe.

    Plus, if you can't afford health insurance, then you can't afford that MRI, no matter how fast you can make an appointment.



    lol

    News flash! Private health insurance works using the exact same principle. You pay into the system, regardless of whether you are health or sick. The payments are pooled, and distributed to the people who happen to be sick at any given moment. The system forces you to pay for someone else's care. Oh, and to enrich the top executives and shareholders.

    In theory, you can choose not to have health insurance; in practice, it's risking bankruptcy. Among other issues is that hospitals set sky-high prices for care, because that's a starting point for negotiations with insurers; however, if you're uninsured, you get socked with the full cost. If you don't have insurance and you have a heart attack, it could cost you $50,000 or more, not including the cost of care after the heart attack.

    Unsurprisingly, the US system is horribly inefficient -- as shown by how medical expenditures per capita in the US are more than double the OECD average:



    And let's not forget that "medicine for profit" bestows upon our society wonderful gifts like the opiate crisis, or before the ACA, refusing coverage to individuals or their so-called "pre-existing conditions" in order to keep insurer's profits high.
    I dont' give a ****, people are stupid and offers of "free healthcare" will naturally garner the support of mass stupidity of people who can't take the moment to think for themselves.
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    Re: Should we pay people who are unwilling to work? AOC thinks so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Renae View Post
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypi.../#3247b62b56f3

    You're enamoured by charts that show only the rosey picture you want to see.
    The rest of the first world disagrees with you.

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    Re: Should we pay people who are unwilling to work? AOC thinks so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    look at the chart again.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tions-january/
    i prefer actual articles to charts.

    they tell a more true story than charts.

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    Re: Should we pay people who are unwilling to work? AOC thinks so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acadia View Post
    Amen. I worked my ass off, continue to work, live within my means and save, save, save. I'm not going to pay because some lazy, greedy, impetuous dufii didn't have the personal responsibility to plan for their future.
    I tried calling her office but she wasn't answering her phone and her message box was full.

    I had a simple question. I travel for work. I usually have to end up there the same day i leave unless it is an international flight.
    i wanted to ask her how i am supposed to work as she wants to get rid of planes.

    it would make my job impossible. The day i travel i usually have to go into the office.
    So i am glad she is going to be giving me all this free stuff because i would lose my job as i can't travel.
    and you can't run a train to Europe.

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    Re: Should we pay people who are unwilling to work? AOC thinks so.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    I tried calling her office but she wasn't answering her phone and her message box was full.

    I had a simple question. I travel for work. I usually have to end up there the same day i leave unless it is an international flight.
    i wanted to ask her how i am supposed to work as she wants to get rid of planes.

    it would make my job impossible. The day i travel i usually have to go into the office.
    So i am glad she is going to be giving me all this free stuff because i would lose my job as i can't travel.
    and you can't run a train to Europe.
    You know the oligarch Democrats aren't going to be giving up their private planes! Sheila Jackson Lee only goes first class, baby!
    We chattle will have to herded into train box cars and get tossed out when the train passes our destination. Stopping and starting would use to much energy!

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    Re: Should we pay people who are unwilling to work? AOC thinks so.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tions-january/
    i prefer actual articles to charts.

    they tell a more true story than charts.
    you prefer to leave every discussion with the opinion that you came into it with regardless of facts, data, charts, or anything else. this is why i don't discuss health care with you anymore.

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    Re: Should we pay people who are unwilling to work? AOC thinks so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Acadia View Post
    As part of her New Green Deal, AOC wants to pay people for fogging a mirror. Can't you just feel the meteoric rise to the middle and call to greatness and prosperity?

    "Representatives Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D., N.Y.) and Ed Markey (D., Mass.) introduced a Green New Deal bill Thursday that, in addition to transitioning the U.S. entirely to renewable energy in ten years, promises to provide “economic security for those unable or unwilling to work.”

    Since arriving in Washington in January, Ocasio-Cortez has prioritized the implementation of a Green New Deal and, in her frequent media appearances, has emphasized its potential as a means to pursue “economic justice” while drastically reducing carbon emissions over the next decade.

    In drafting the proposal, Ocasio-Cortez and her fellow progressive lawmakers appear to have envisioned that the trillions of dollars in new government spending it would require would be financed entirely on credit.

    “How will you pay for it,” reads a frequently-asked-questions document that accompanied the bill.“The Federal Reserve can extend credit to power these projects and investments and new public banks can be created to extend credit. There is also space for the government to take an equity stake in projects to get a return on investment.”
    With the exception of the brief mention of a “carbon tax,” which the FAQ document claims “misses the point,” there is no mention of any additional taxes to cover the cost of spending.

    20
    In addition to providing “economic security for those unable or unwilling to work,” the plan also promises to create “millions of good, high-wage jobs” for willing Americans. Many of those new federal employees would presumably assist in the 14 major clean-energy-infrastructure projects the plan calls for.

    In defending the breadth and scope of the proposal, which also includes 15 “social and economic justice and security” requirements, Ocasio-Cortez has likened it to the mobilization effort that preceded World War II, and conceded that it qualifies as a “moonshot” idea."



    Kennedy's moonshot was a call to greatness and pushing the boundaries of human achievement. AOC's "moonshot" is a call to suck on the government teat and have us become a socialist mecca.
    It always amazes me how the far socialist left is willing to pay people who are able to work but don't want to. I just can't shake my head enough. Screw 'em. They believe it's up to the rich to pay people who don't even want to work in the first place.

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    Re: Should we pay people who are unwilling to work? AOC thinks so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    you prefer to leave every discussion with the opinion that you came into it with regardless of facts, data, charts, or anything else. this is why i don't discuss health care with you anymore.
    IE you can't dispute the fact that they just canceled 50k needed surgeries.
    You know i was going to post the article that one lady there has a tumor.
    that tumor causes a ton of other medical issues.

    she has had her surgery canceled 3 times by their UHC system with another time being she had no one to take care of her kids.
    This are called facts and we know you don't like to deal with those because you can't.

    sorry i don't know why you hate your health
    you don't discuss it because all you have are copy and paste posts.

    same busted charts same busted arguments and you just copy and paste them in response.

    you can't actually disuss the topic because you frankly don't know anything about it.

    when shown why things are more expensive here you ignore it.
    when shown that other countries perfect UHC systems are severely flawed you ignore it.

    which is why you always deflect when challenged by anyone, and never address any argument.

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